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sixtyseven
Found that one in my collection of Cult pics, is this the movie you are talking about? I have to go back through some facebook posts to find out more....

Yes, that's it! Thanks!

It was hyped up big time in the N$A Cult Org. the first time they showed it in the U.S. at a big L.A. screening. Like "TaitenAndProud" also said, I believe there was a second showing at some point in the 80's. I didn't go, though, because I was becoming increasingly fed up with the cult org. around that time.

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TaitenAndProud
So I was relieved when I finally stopped attending activities - I'd never liked them, I'd never wanted to go - it always felt like a chore - and I never got anything out of them. Certainly not enough to make up for the pain in my ass of going and spending my time there!

Ditto x10.

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TaitenAndProud
Then, once you say "The hell with this!", you experience a real sense of freedom. Sure, you probably feel more than a little silly for wasting so much time on that, but hopefully you learned something from the experience. If only NOT to be suckered into something whose activities you don't actively enjoy!!

Ditto x20.

To this day, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever saying "No" to things that I don't want to be bothered with. I know all too well the miserable consequences of going along with something just for the sake of going along with it. My tolerance for this kind of stuff was all used up by the cult org. and I have no more, unfortunately.

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holly_golightly
..... I remember having the same reaction as you after I read the account of Toda's enlightenment in the book. After reading it avidly to find out what the answer was I was really disappointed by the answer being 'life'. At the time I thought there must be something I was missing and that I hadn't studied it deep enough.

I'm completely with you on this. As with everything "Ikeda" (his photography, his so-called poems) he thinks he's being deep, but in reality, he's pedestrian and shallow.

That said, it's apparently "deep" enough for some. More power to them, it was certainly never that way with me. (Fwiw, I noticed an inverse proportion relationship within the gakkai cult org., the more some member or leader was genuinely "into" The Dear Leader's words, the less, IMO, intelligent I thought they were. At least that was my anecdotal experience growing up in the gakkai cult org.. and I believe it holds true for both the U.S. and Japan.)

I will grant him (Ikeda) one thing, though, he *is* good at what he does - being a professional con-man.



- Hitch

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Holly: I too had the experience of dragging myself out to activities because I trusted the people that told me I would feel better and then kept on giving it one more chance even though it didn't seem to be helping. It is such a great feeling of freedom to take back that power isn't it?

Oh, yes! For me, when I withdrew from the SGI, I was able to see that my experience was that the SGI reinforced negative patterns for me. For example, when I withdrew from the SGI, I realized that, in my daily life, I was likewise spending time with people I didn't really like/who didn't really like me. This had a predictable negative effect on my self-respect, self-esteem, and resulted in what I think might have been a low-level depression.

Cause and effect, neh? O_-

What I remember starting when we lived in North Carolina, after I had been unable to do activities for 3.5 years while at the University of the Virgin Islands on St. Thomas (too busy with studies/work, but honestly, they were batsh!t there), was a pattern where, every so often, I would realize "I hate all my friends!" And then I'd chantchantchant for better friends, and I'd tell myself they were better, but really, my whole time in NSA/SGI, I only made ONE real friend, and even that friendship is suspect. She was a young Japanese ex-pat who'd fallen in love with a "bad boy" while on her student visa to the university here, and she'd gotten pregnant - married - had baby, only to discover just how bad her bad boy was. When we met, he was in jail, awaiting trial on the charges that would put him away for almost 4 years (coincidentally the duration of our friendship). She'd overstayed her student visa and was now illegal. And no, simply marrying doesn't resolve it - there are numerous hoops to jump through. She had no driver's license, couldn't drive, a toddler, and no job/income - and was living with her mother in law, who was cruel to her. And this is a fortune baby!!

So I/we really embraced her and her little daughter and helped them a LOT - she got herself an under-the-table waitressing job, I did a lot of child care for her, I taught her to drive, we took them with us pretty much everywhere - including Disneyland and suchlike, I paid for her daughter to start swimming lessons and dance lessons. She chose to take over the payments after only a couple of months. It wasn't that, by this time, she was still destitute, but she had no idea about these things or how to get them - imagine yourself in a foreign culture! Her daughter accompanied mine to Spanish classes and field trips (we homeschooled) and, just before Blubber Boy got out of prison, we took them to Japan with us. She arranged everything and served as our translator/tour guide. It was great! But as soon as Blubber Boy got home, he restricted her from seeing us. They both still wanted me to pick up the slack with their daughter, like him calling me in the middle of the afternoon "I'm stuck in traffic - can you go pick her up from school?" But it always ended up being HIM picking her up. I didn't see my "friend" for over a year straight. My daughter, who was about 7, asked me to make a rule that she was not allowed to ride in her friend's car if her daddy was driving - can you imagine a child ASKING for such a rule?? He wouldn't hold a job - he just wanted to be a tattoo artist. He tattooed up his wife/my friend - and tattoos are really frowned upon in Japanese society. My husband and I were alarmed enough at him that I told her we never wanted to see him again - happy to help out with the daughter, but she or her mother in law would have to pick her up. He would arrive to pick her up in a cloud of cigarette smoke - when picking up a CHILD! - and often with some nasty-looking fatass disreputable guy with him. I did not want these types seeing my daughter, who was growing tall and pretty. The last straw was when he came with a fatass - I was taking the trash cans out, back and forth, and when they left, I noticed that Fatass had thrown his burning cigarette butt onto my driveway, for ME to pick up. What kind of person DOES that??? Game over. That was September of 2008.

January 2009, their son was born. June 2009, he joined a notorious gang (see "Fatass") in committing not one, but TWO notorious jewelry store armed robberies. Last April, he was finally sentenced - 70 years to life. Those were, I discovered from nosing about online, his 3rd and 4th strikes - the crime he'd been in prison for was his SECOND strike, which my friend had not made clear to me, and I hadn't suspected to ask.

Remember, we're talking about a fortune baby here!

People commented to me, "She's not a real friend; she's just using you." And I realize that's a distinct possibility. But I enjoyed our time together, and it made me feel good to help her out - and she needed so much help! Her teeth were terrible, for one thing. She was going to this Mexican dentist who did cheap work out of somebody's living room a coupla weekends a month, but then the dentist hurt her back and had to stop. So she made a payment arrangement with my dentist to get the rest done, and I paid half. I remember her once commenting that half a tooth, one of the premolars, had come out. That's now a blank space in her smile. Blubber Boy apparently re-started his drug habit as soon as he got out, which meant the end of dance lessons and every other enrichment activity their daughter had been able to enjoy while he was locked up. And they were in debt. She'd managed just fine with him out of the picture, so I'm sure she'll be okay now that he's gone forever.

So now that I'm out of that pattern myself, I don't know what will happen with her and me. I owe her pictures from our trip to Japan; once I get those delivered, I will be free to decide.

I want to come back again to this comment:

"...illicit drug users feel that they benefit from their addiction too, so feeling that you benefit from something does not make it a good thing."

The idea that 'illicit drug users" use because they make bad choices and/or have disreputable characters and/or are despicable human beings is a fantasy/myth/urban legend promoted, in many cases, by the very government that feeds and profits off the illicit drug trade.

Gabor Maté's excellent book, "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts," really opened my eyes about this. The short version is this: Not everyone who tries a given drug becomes addicted. They can only become addicted if they already possess the specific brain chemistry that reacts with that drug. For example, going into the Vietnam War, less than 1% of conscripts had heroin habits. Over in Vietnam, about half of the troops were using heroin, meth, and marijuana. Upon return, almost all quit using - there ended up being fewer users than went in using! They were using because of the overwhelming stress and suffering of being there in Vietnam.

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Heroin is considered to be a highly addictive drug—and it is, but
only for a small minority of people, as the following example illustrates.
It’s well known that many American soldiers serving in the Vietnam
War in the late 1960s and early 1970s were regular users. Along with
heroin, most of these soldier addicts also used barbiturates or
amphetamines or both. According to a study published in the Archives
of General Psychiatry in 1975, 20 per cent of the returning enlisted
men met the criteria for the diagnosis of addiction while they were in
Southeast Asia, whereas before they were shipped overseas fewer
than 1 per cent had been opiate addicts. The researchers were
astonished to find that “after Vietnam, use of particular drugs and
combinations of drugs decreased to near or even below preservice
levels.” The remission rate was 95 per cent, “unheard of among
narcotics addicts treated in the U.S.”

“The high rates of narcotic use and addiction there were truly unlike
anything prior in the American experience,” the researchers
concluded. “Equally dramatic was the surprisingly high remission rate
after return to the United States.”

These results suggested that the
addiction did not arise from the heroin itself but from the needs of the
men who used the drug. Otherwise, most of them would have
remained addicts. [zgm.se]

To get to that excerpt, do a Search on "Southeast Asia". BTW, the first few pages at that site are blank - just page down and you'll find it.

Of addicts, most of their brain predisposition was established before they were even born - children of stressed mothers are far more likely to end up with ADD, which is the brain condition that responds to nicotine, alcohol, cocaine, meth, and crack. Ritalin relieves, but many with ADD remain undiagnosed/untreated.

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Adopted children did worse in school, had more problems with alcohol and drug addiction, had more arrests, and were more likely to receive welfare. Evidently, parents invest more in adopted children not because they favor them but because they need more help. [www.psychologytoday.com]

It's a well-recognized syndrome that adopted children are far more likely to end up alcoholics or drug abusers, and the mother who gives her baby up for adoption is obviously a stressed woman.

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It has been demonstrated that both animals and humans who
experienced the stress of their mothers during pregnancy are more
likely to have disturbed stress-control mechanisms long after birth,
creating a risk factor for addiction. Maternal stress during pregnancy
can, for example, increase the offspring’s sensitivity to alcohol.
23
As
mentioned, a relative scarcity of dopamine receptors also elevates theaddiction risk. “We’ve done work, and a lot of other people have done
work showing that essentially the number and density of dopamine
receptors in these receptive areas is determined in utero,” psychiatric
researcher Dr. Bruce Perry told me in an interview.
For these reasons, adoption studies cannot decide questions of
generic inheritance. Any woman who has to give up her baby for
adoption is, by definition, a stressed woman. She is stressed not just
because she knows she’ll be separated from her baby, but primarily
because if she wasn’t stressed in the first place, she would never have
had to consider giving up her child: the pregnancy was unwanted or the
mother was poor, single or in a bad relationship or she was an
immature teenager who conceived involuntarily or was a drug user or
was raped or confronted by some other adversity. Any of these
situations would be enough to impose tremendous stress on any
person, and so for many months the developing fetus would be
exposed to high cortisol levels through the placenta. A proclivity for
addiction is one possible consequence.

Same link as above - search on "stressed woman" to find this page.

People with addiction problems, in other words, do not deserve our contempt or our disdain. They need help. They're getting it the only place they know how - from illicit sources. Many are so damaged that they are poor, unemployed, and we all know how expensive health care is in the US, where it is *still* considered a "privilege" rather than a "right". They simply don't have access to legal medication.

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The Downtown Eastside addicts are acutely aware of their lack of
power in any conflict with authority, be it legal or medical. “Who would
believe me; I’m just a junkie” is the refrain I hear over and over againas patients complain of being beaten in jail or on the darkened streets
or of being dismissed rudely by nurses or doctors at an emergency
ward. Such experiences, for the addict, add more links to the chain of
utter powerlessness that began in childhood

People who are likewise addicted to cults are similarly damaged. This damage likely occurred before age 5, including before they were even born. As Dr. Maté puts it, "Their brains never had a chance."

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Detective-Sergeant Paul Gillespie, head of Toronto’s sex crimes unit,
rescued children from the purveyors of Internet pornography. As the
Globe and Mail reported on his retirement from police work, six years
at that job had not inured him to the horrors he witnessed:
Paul Gillespie still can’t get used to the sounds of crying and pain
in the graphic videos of children being raped and molested that
he has seen all too often on the Web. “It’s beyond horrible to listen
to the soundtracks of these movies,” said Canada’s best-known
child-porn cop…But it is the silent images of desolate children
that tear the most at his heart. “They’re not screaming, just
accepting,” he said of the infants captured in these pictures. “They
have dead eyes. You can tell that their spirit is broken. That’s their
life.”

Dead eyes, broken spirits: in a phrase this compassionate man
summed up the fate of the abused child. Yet there is a bitter irony in his
words. The lives of abused children do not end when they are rescued
—if they are rescued, as most never are. Many become teenagers
with spirits not mended and reach adulthood with eyes still dead. Their
fate continues to be a concern for the police and the courts, but by thenthey are no longer heartbreakingly sweet, no longer vulnerable looking.
They lurk on the social periphery as hardened men with ravaged faces;
as thieves, robbers, shoplifters; as done-up prostitutes selling
backseat sex for drugs or petty cash; as streetcorner drug pushers or
as small-time entrepreneurs distributing cocaine out of cheap hotel
rooms. They are the hardcore injection users, and many will drift
westward across Canada to the warmer climate and drug mecca of
Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside. Here, as in cities across North
America, it is now the duty of Detective-Sergeant Gillespie’s drug
squad colleagues to keep a sharp eye on these people, to frisk them
in back alleys, to confiscate their drug paraphernalia and to arrest
them time and again.

Some of these former children are not pleasant to deal with. Scruffy
and dirty, shifty and manipulative, they invite distaste. Fearful and
contemptuous of authority at the same time, they evoke hostility. The
police often handle them roughly. Cops are not necessarily
predisposed to harshness, but a loss of humane interaction inevitably
results whenever an entire group of people is de-legitimized while
another group is granted virtually unrestrained physical authority over
them.
...
In any war there must be enemies. In the War on Drugs the enemies
are most often children like the ones Detective-Sergeant Gillespie
could not rescue or rescued too late. They are not the generals, of
course, the masterminds or the profiteers. They are the foot soldiers,
the ones who live in the trenches—and as in all wars, they are the ones
who suffer and die. Or, they become what the military calls collateral
damage.

The War on Drugs, from the Hastings-facing window of the Portland
Hotel, is manifested in the pregnant Celia kneeling on the sidewalk,
handcuffed wrists behind her back, eyes cast on the ground. There
was no Detective-Sergeant Gillespie to protect her when, as a little
girl, she was raped by her stepfather and subjected to the nocturnal
spitting ritual, so in the War on Drugs she has become one of the enemy.

The "nocturnal spitting ritual" was where her monster of a stepfather would come into her room, stand by her bed, and spit all over her, leaving her drenched.

Regarding such damaged, downtrodden people with disdain and contempt only makes the problem worse. If we wish to provide a safe place where someone can emerge from cult addiction, we need to make it clear that the emergent victim will not be further degraded and ostracized. They've suffered enough.

In case you're wondering, Freeheartandmind, I am posting this because *I* wish to, because *I* think it's important, and because *I* post on my own terms. Have a nice day.

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TaitenAndProud

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To each his own...except SGI is a deceptive cult masquerading as a religion and whose followers likely do not know that both Ikea and the org are BILLIONAIRES, while they scrub toilets for free.

I roundly condemn SGI, it is a despicable organization. I do not condemn the people who feel they benefit from it (illicit drug users feel that they benefit from their addiction too, so feeling that you benefit from something does not make it a good thing), but I do hope they wake up and realize the truth about the what they really belong to. - Freeheartandmind

Sure, that's YOUR perspective.

But now we come around again to: WHO is qualified and authorized to declare whether another person is acceptably happy or not?

People choose their involvements for many different reasons, many (if not most) of which are not necessarily healthy. Damage drives us far more effectively than wisdom, I'm afraid. And people have to learn in their own ways. I would never walk up to someone cleaning toilets in an SGI Culture Center and try to drag him/her away! That would be grossly inappropriate.

Bottom line: If we want people to respect our path, our process, and our perspective, we need to extend the same to them. The SGI wasn't for us. That's fine. It might suit someone else. If we declare blanket condemnation on the SGI, then we're really no better than them. Intolerant is as intolerant does, after all.

Sure, the fact that it's profiting off the membership is despicable, but that is the story of ALL religious groups, you know. Every single one. Are you willing to issue the same blanket condemnation for Christianity and call for all those churches to start paying their fair share of taxes, at the very least, which would mean that every family in the US would pay about $1,000 LESS each year in taxes? If not, WHY not? They're just as bad.

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And all too often they dont want to hear of the harm done and sacrifices imposed on the low ranking members who labor behind the scenes of the Bliss Factory.

Why should they care? The low ranking members who labor behind the scenes are volunteers, aren't they? Nobody's chaining them to a sink or a table, after all. Another bottom line: If there weren't people willing to sign up for these duties, there would be no organization. There are plenty of damaged people who sign on, and who's to stop them? Should someone be assigned to following them around all day, every day, just to make sure they aren't doing something that...someone...doesn't approve of?

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I wonder...when someone experiences the full on bliss that SGI can engineer via the chanting and group meetings, does the planet "begin to feel like a waiting room" between orchestrated bliss hits?

Well, I got that feeling early on, in part because I was so petted and pampered, the "golden child" as someone upstream described. Plus, I was manipulating the hell out of my boyfriend, and that was immensely satisfying (need again). Once I "graduated" to WD and moved away, that all ended. As abruptly as slamming a door.

What I experienced in the SGI here in the San Diego area really surprised me. It appeared that people showed up at the activities for the sake of showing up at the activities. Not to see friends, not to get together - no one went out to, say, lunch or dinner after an activity. No parents made any efforts to get their school-age children together. There were "social" things, like a pot luck or whatever, but they seemed to be going through the motions. People were there for the organization - not the other way around. It struck me as really peculiar - if you're going to be in an organization, shouldn't you be making actual *friendships* within that organization? Shouldn't that be a priority? All the studies of health benefits from organization affiliation reveal that it is the social aspect that makes the difference - it doesn't matter what you're doing. Just like chanting - remember how the SGI used to say that some psychologist said that chanting was great, and chanting something REALLY SIGNIFICANT was even better??? Ha! I am quite confident that chanting *ANYTHING* will gain you the same benefits - the content of the chant doesn't matter in the least. The SGI even made a big deal about emphasizing how the SGI was the "most ideal, family-like organization" in the world. Really? Where people *never* get together, never call each other just to talk, never go out to movies, never do any of the things that friends do together?? It was such a joke!

When I joined in 1987, there were activities virtually every night. It was *exhausting*! But even then, people would get together afterward and go out to dinner or see a movie or something. Even with such a consuming run-on-the-wheel of activities. Here, though? Nothing! Even with activities only a few times a month, people still weren't getting together - except to meet to go on a "home visit" together. I watched, I listened. There were no outside relationships. When our district would have its District General Meeting, we'd sometimes meet at a park for a potluck and do the meeting there, but there was never any question - we were there because we had to be there. No one was ever eager to go; we went because we were supposed to go. Again, it was because we'd been told how important it was to "support the organization", if we wanted to maximize our benefits.

So I was relieved when I finally stopped attending activities - I'd never liked them, I'd never wanted to go - it always felt like a chore - and I never got anything out of them. Certainly not enough to make up for the pain in my ass of going and spending my time there! And when I stopped feeling like I should be getting some social payoff from my investment of time and energy, I found far more fulfillment through choosing for myself where that time and energy would be spent. It's like if someone promises you'll feel so much better if you do *this* and *this* and *that*, so you do it, even though you don't like it, and at the end, you find you AREN'T feeling better, so you say so, and the person says, "You just haven't given it enough time", so you continue, growing ever more frustrated and disappointed - and feeling ever so much more like a ponce. Then, once you say "The hell with this!", you experience a real sense of freedom. Sure, you probably feel more than a little silly for wasting so much time on that, but hopefully you learned something from the experience. If only NOT to be suckered into something whose activities you don't actively enjoy!!

We will have to agree to disagree. I'm not trying to ascertain or judge anyone's "happiness" level. But if there is one thing this board has revealed, it is the false face that the cult org presents to the world and its own members. I do not agree that blanket condemnation of Cult $GI is a bad thing, or as you put it, "intolerant". One reason Rick Ross created this forum is to bring to the light the practices of harmful groups, and most posters on this board before you agreed that this org does harm to people. You don't have to even be aware that harm is being done to be harmed! Ever heard of blissful ignorance? I am hardly intolerant and you really should not be so quick to label people you do not know.

Your perspective is not the only valid one. People join cults that practice child sex abuse and other horrible things, and I cannot take a morally neutral stand on any of them. That doesn't make me intolerant, it makes me compassionate. I'm not going to argue with you, like I said, we will just have to agree to disagree.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2013 06:33AM by Freeheartandmind.

(snip T&P)...Sure, the fact that it's profiting off the membership is despicable, but that is the story of ALL religious groups, you know. Every single one. Are you willing to issue the same blanket condemnation for Christianity and call for all those churches to start paying their fair share of taxes, at the very least, which would mean that every family in the US would pay about $1,000 LESS each year in taxes? If not, WHY not? They're just as bad.
Quote:

That IS NOT the story of ALL religious groups! Please stop painting with such a huge brush! Why are you being an SGI apologist? And I would argue that other than the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope, few religious orgs have BILLIONS in assets like Ikea and $GI. This is way beyond profiting, T&P.

You do not know me, because if you did you would know that I do not support tax exemption for churches. There are Christian identified groups on the Rick Ross site and I roundly condemn them also. I am not a Christian apologist, I am a member of no Christian church, I have no dog in the fight. Besides, this thread is about SGI, not Christian churches or cults. I have never condemned all of Buddhism, I condemned SGI and I stand by that. I think I am a lot more "tolerant" of Buddhism than you are of Christianity, based on some of your Christianity-bashing comments. Please respond to what I post based on what I actually posted, not what you think I posted.

Somewhat OT, but the best book IMO about the problem of drugs in Americas is "Drug Crazy". My older brother was a heroin addict for his entire adult life (he died in 2001 at the age of 49), so I have up close and personal experience with the impact of Americas's inane social policy regarding drugs that Congress has decided are bad, for racist and economic reasons.

I am hardly intolerant and you really should not be so quick to label people you do not know. - Freeheartandmind

Yes, well, that's all well and good, but hilarious coming from someone who presumes to label and scold people SHE doesn't know via PM - might as well keep the bad behavior private, I suppose, so as not to alarm the members. The lessons of SGI remain...
.
Sure. Speak out all you like about how *obviously* horrible and rotten the SGI is. It is. No doubt about it! But realize that your invective will scare off the timid souls who might want to move a tentative toe out of line and seek some support in disentangling themselves from the tentacles of the organization. THAT is the problem with that approach - it makes this group appear hostile. My feeling is that, by sharing our own personal experiences and the effect that our membership had on us, the malign effect of the organization is obvious. Keeping it personal, to our experiences and observations, makes us approachable, I feel, whereas attacking the organization itself serves to make us distant and even scary. "How will they react if they find I'm still attending activities? Better not risk communicating with them."
.
That is my perspective. Think for yourself.
.
BTW, I found some interesting posts on page 52 of this thread - in particular, look at the first post, a few down, by quiet one, the response to "Scooby Doo", followed by tsukimoto's quote of Rick Ross's recommendations for how to treat people still in the grip of the cult: [forum.culteducation.com]

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Remember these two important points at all times:

Don't be critical of spirituality, idealism and/or greater awareness. The stated goals and ideals of the group may have been laudable--despite its behavior.

Don't try to convince or convert a former cult member about your personal beliefs. Respect their process of recovery and personal discovery. They will make their own choices in their own time and may require a rest from church, religion, and even awareness groups for awhile.

tsukimoto, in response to your old question from that thread about "guidance" about living together before marriage, Miss Almeda Bailey of the Chicago Jt. Terr. gave me very *strict* guidance about my then-boyfriend-current-husband-of-21+-years moving in with me - she said, "You know of cases where a couple moves in together?" Yes. "Does it tend to work out well for the young woman??" No. "You're a YWD HQ leader - you've been trusted with a position that the other YWD will look up to! Do you think you should be setting that kind of example for the impressionable YWD!" Well, when you put it that way... I came from a conservative Evangelical Christian upbringing, despite having graduated to atheism, so the appeals to a conservative mindset pulled all the strings put in place by Christianity. So my husband and I had a quickie civil ceremony wedding and then had our official Buddhist wedding (read: gift grab :D ) at the kaikan later that summer. I heard the name "Miss Inoashi" bandied about when I was a new member, but nothing much that I recall. I never saw her. She was replaced briefly by Eiko Hirota, if memory serves - the "Eiko" part is right - and SHE insisted by going by her first name, although many still called her "Miss Hirota".
.
In "The Human Revolution #19", Ikeda takes it upon himself to write George Williams *OUT* of SGI history:

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Shin'ichi then addressed the central leader of the US organization: "The organization here has developed smoothly up to now, but the real challenge lies ahead. In order to achieve even greater growth, it is crucial to carefully foster new core leaders. In addition, the central figure must be united with the Headquarters staff. If the central figure doesn't have their trust and respect, the organization will eventually collapse." blah blah blah etc. etc. etc.

"The central leader"? How unacceptably coy! All the other leaders get names! This was Mr. Williams - he should have been *all over* this whole passage about a visit to So. California. This "central leader" doesn't even merit the standard fake name!! Only *ONE* person's fake name appears in this sequence - Ikeda's! And everybody knows it's him! It's *ALL* about him!!
.
I have personal experience with this "writing people out" phenomenon. When I was a YWD HQ leader, one of my YWD was having problems - she was 15, and rebelling. Many months of intense one-on-one between her and me, many outings to do interesting stuff (like sketching at the museum or going to the theater), and she came to a better place (of course, determined to "change her karma" and "turn poison into medicine" through a re-invigorated practice - that was how it always went). She gave an experience about it at a kosen-rufu gongyo, making a point of thanking me personally (I was so proud - my ego kept me entangled). She then called me, thrilled to tell me that the Seikyo Times (aka Living Buddhism) was going to feature HER experience in two months!!! I was very happy for her, naturally. Imagine my surprise when the article came out, and was all about how HER MOTHER effected this change by chanting abundant daimoku and being devoted to the organization! My name was nowhere to be seen.
.
Here are some pictures with George M. Williams from back in the day - it's short, and I think you'll get a chuckle from the picture of Sheriff Ikeda leading his posse into the chaparral!! Yee-HAW!!

Oh, and the description to that video ^ is hilarious!!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2013 07:30AM by TaitenAndProud.

(snip T&P): "In case you're wondering, Freeheartandmind, I am posting this because *I* wish to, because *I* think it's important, and because *I* post on my own terms. Have a nice day."

Let me just lay it out there for everybody else. The nasty reference to me is because I pm'd T&P to privately inform her that I thought it was inappropriate to lecture Wakatta1 (and the rest of us) about the "child abuse" he endured, using a complete wall of text in the process, about something she knew nothing about to somebody she did not know. I told her that she comes across as a know it all, and that this board has been one of dialog and discourse, not one person lecturing or dominating anyone else. Instead of pming me back, she chose to take this childish dig at me on the board. So I will finish this here.

I stand by my assessment of T&P, the tone of what was a congenial group of like-minded former org members has changed since she entered the board. What arrogance, I see why she was a "leader" because she does not respect anyone else's opinion and is argumentative and rude. Not only that, she goes way off topic frequently, and seems to be using this board to prop up her own ego instead of for the reason it exists. I have truly enjoyed interacting with and learning from most of you, but this is it for me, it isn't worth the aggravation to have to deal with such an obnoxious person to remain on this board. I hope SGI implodes while I am gone.

So, T&P, I am posting this because I wish to, I think its important and because I post on my own terms. You have a nice day also.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2013 07:25AM by Freeheartandmind.

Quote
TaitenAndProud
I am hardly intolerant and you really should not be so quick to label people you do not know. - Freeheartandmind

Yes, well, that's all well and good, but hilarious coming from someone who presumes to label and scold people SHE doesn't know via PM - might as well keep the bad behavior private, I suppose, so as not to alarm the members. The lessons of SGI remain...

Sure. Speak out all you like about how *obviously* horrible and rotten the SGI is. It is. No doubt about it! But realize that your invective will scare off the timid souls who might want to move a tentative toe out of line and seek some support in disentangling themselves from the tentacles of the organization. THAT is the problem with that approach - it makes this group appear hostile. My feeling is that, by sharing our own personal experiences and the effect that our membership had on us, the malign effect of the organization is obvious. Keeping it personal, to our experiences and observations, makes us approachable, I feel, whereas attacking the organization itself serves to make us distant and even scary. "How will they react if they find I'm still attending activities? Better not risk communicating with them."

That is my perspective. Think for yourself.

BTW, I found some interesting posts on page 52 of this thread - in particular, look at the first post, a few down, by quiet one, the response to "Scooby Doo", followed by tsukimoto's quote of Rick Ross's recommendations for how to treat people still in the grip of the cult:

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Remember these two important points at all times:

Don't be critical of spirituality, idealism and/or greater awareness. The stated goals and ideals of the group may have been laudable--despite its behavior.

Don't try to convince or convert a former cult member about your personal beliefs. Respect their process of recovery and personal discovery. They will make their own choices in their own time and may require a rest from church, religion, and even awareness groups for awhile.

tsukimoto, in response to your old question from that thread about "guidance" about living together before marriage, Miss Almeda Bailey of the Chicago Jt. Terr. gave me very *strict* guidance about my then-boyfriend-current-husband-of-21+-years moving in with me - she said, "You know of cases where a couple moves in together?" Yes. "Does it tend to work out well for the young woman??" No. "You're a YWD HQ leader - you've been trusted with a position that the other YWD will look up to! Do you think you should be setting that kind of example for the impressionable YWD!" Well, when you put it that way... I came from a conservative Evangelical Christian upbringing, despite having graduated to atheism, so the appeals to a conservative mindset pulled all the strings put in place by Christianity. So my husband and I had a quickie civil ceremony wedding and then had our official Buddhist wedding (read: gift grab :D ) at the kaikan later that summer. I heard the name "Miss Inoashi" bandied about when I was a new member, but nothing much that I recall. I never saw her. She was replaced briefly by Eiko Hirota, if memory serves - the "Eiko" part is right - and SHE insisted by going by her first name, although many still called her "Miss Hirota".

In "The Human Revolution #19", Ikeda takes it upon himself to write George Williams *OUT* of SGI history:

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Shin'ichi then addressed the central leader of the US organization: "The organization here has developed smoothly up to now, but the real challenge lies ahead. In order to achieve even greater growth, it is crucial to carefully foster new core leaders. In addition, the central figure must be united with the Headquarters staff. If the central figure doesn't have their trust and respect, the organization will eventually collapse.

"The central leader"? How unacceptably coy! All the other leaders get names! This was Mr. Williams - he should have been *all over* this whole passage about a visit to So. California. This "central leader" doesn't even merit the standard fake name!! Only *ONE* person's fake name appears in this sequence - Ikeda's! And everybody knows it's him! It's *ALL* about him!!

I have personal experience with this "writing people out" phenomenon. When I was a YMD HQ leader, one of my YWD was having problems - she was 15, and rebelling. Many months of intense one-on-one between her and me, many outings to do interesting stuff (like sketching at the museum or going to the theater), and she came to a better place (of course, determined to "change her karma" and "turn poison into medicine" through a re-invigorated practice - that was how it always went). She gave an experience about it at a kosen-rufu gongyo, making a point of thanking me personally (I was so proud - my ego kept me entangled). She then called me, thrilled to tell me that the Seikyo Times (aka Living Buddhism) was going to feature HER experience in two months!!! I was very happy for her, naturally. Imagine my surprise when the article came out, and was all about how HER MOTHER effected this change by chanting abundant daimoku and being devoted to the organization! My name was nowhere to be seen.

Here are some pictures with George M. Williams from back in the day - it's short, and I think you'll get a chuckle from the picture of Sheriff Ikeda leading his posse into the chaparral!! Yee-HAW!!

Oh, and the description to that video ^ is hilarious!!

I private messaged you because it was appropriate given the subject matter, Wakatta1 scolded you also ON THIS BOARD or did his sarcasm go over your head? You were WRONG to post what you did, and you owe him an apology and this entire board for your attempts to monopolize it. It is RUDE to REPEATEDLY post walls and walls of text, have you ever participated on a MB before? You are butthurt because I called you out on your crap, and since you did not want to keep it private, here it is. Nobody is scared of you, little girl. I will take you on anytime.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2013 07:36AM by Freeheartandmind.

Forgive me, everyone, for replying *here* to this post from almost 3 years ago by tsukimoto - I wasn't around here then, and it's just *SO GOOD*!!!

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I found this on the Chanting Grower's Thread. This is guidance by Mr. Tsuji, a senior SGI leader, about what to chant for. It's been around for years; I heard it in the 1980's, at SGI meetings. At the time, I thought it was great guidance. Now I look at it and think, "Parts of it are good and parts are just plain wrong. "

-----------------------------------Beginning of Quote --Chanting Growers' Thread, International Cannagraphic Website----------------------------
Zange Guidance from Vice President Tsuji (What to chant for, or think about while you chant)

Appreciation

For having the Gohonzon.

For being able to change my karma.

For being alive at this time.

For all the people around me.

For everything being a teacher to me.


Self-Realization

Realize that for every EXTERNAL CAUSE (nyo ze en),

There is first an INTERNAL CAUSE (nyo ze in).

Every hurt, anger, frustration, or painful situation that occurs to me is MY
RESPONSIBILITY.

My karma forced it to happen, or forced them to behave that way.

Hendoku Iyaku-I can turn poison into medicine and become aware of my own
"Internal Hooks" that draw such experiences to me.

I ALONE am responsible for my life condition.

Apology

For current slander in thought, word, and action-let me not want to do it
anymore.

Daimoku of altruism-chant for the health and well-being of the person(s)
involved, and that they may deepen their faith. Ask the Gohonzon, "What can I
do to rectify the situation?"


Determination

To work harder for kosen-rufu.

To create value in the area of family relations, school, job, and activities.


ONLY AFTER CHANTING FOR ALL THE ABOVE, CHANT FOR WHAT YOU DESIRE OR WANT TO
CHANGE OR ACHIEVE IN YOUR LIFE.
---------------------------------------------End Of Quote---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The part that bothers me most is this:

"Every hurt, anger, frustration, or painful situation that occurs to me is MY
RESPONSIBILITY."

"My karma forced it to happen, or forced them to behave that way."

Yes, it is valuable to look at your actions, words and attitudes and think about what effects they might have -- on yourself and others. If you have a pattern of having debts and financial problems, are you making sensible decisions about handling your money? How might you handle your money differently? If you have serial bad relationships, are you choosing the wrong partners,or ignoring warning signs of problems until it's too late? Are you letting them walk all over you -- or are you walking all over them, ignoring your partners' rights and feelings? Certainly, it's good -- and hard to reflect honestly on what you're doing or not doing.

My objection is with the "every" and that "my karma forced them to behave that way." Things are rarely that black and white, and this smacks of blaming the victim. The toddler in my city who was beaten to death by her mother's boyfriend -- her karma forced him to do that? Really? The people who died on planes or the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001 -- their karma forced the terrorists to hijack and crash those planes? The victims' families and friends -- THEY did something to deserve losing loved ones that way? No, no, no! I don't accept that. You cannot know that -- it's just a theory, and a cruel one.

If I choose to get drunk, and then drive my car -- and I crash into you, killing your loved one and leaving you with a permanent, and painful disability -- can I say that YOUR karma forced me to do that, so you can't blame me? NO! And anyone who tells you that kind of crap ought to be slapped! This is just cruel and oversimplistic nonsense.

Indeed, if Ikeda and the senior SGI leadership really buys into this notion of forgive everyone everything because it was just your karma anyway -- then why not embrace George Williams like a brother? If Williams really did betray Ikeda, wasn't it only because Ikeda's karma forced Williams to act that way? If Ikeda suffered hurt, frustration or pain over Williams' actions, it's Ikeda's responsibility -- is it not? According to Mr. Tsuji's guidance, it is.

According to Mr. Tsuji, Ikeda should have done the following:

"Daimoku of altruism-chant for the health and well-being of the person(s)
involved, and that they may deepen their faith. Ask the Gohonzon, "What can I
do to rectify the situation?""

How much daimoku do you think Ikeda did for the health and well-being of George Williams? Do you think that Ikeda prayed that Williams would deepen his faith and become happy? Or asked the Gohonzon, "What can I do to rectify this situation with my friend George?"

Oh, I forgot...all this forgiveness, taking responsibility, rectifying and altruism is for us little people. Super Mentor has transcended the need for it!

Maybe all of this isn't so annoying if you're high on marijuana.

I saw that *same* VP Tsuji thing, back in the late 1980s, and at the time, I thought it was so good as well! But I completely agree with you, that whole "my karma *FORCED* them to behave that way" is wrong and destructive thinking - in me, it resulted in weird and codependent thought processes and behavior, never standing up for myself, accepting ill treatment at others' hands. I can see where I got hooked into this, through my early childhood indoctrination into Evangelical Christianity/Southern Baptists, where the prime virtue for children is *obedience* to authority figures. That resulted in me having little self-confidence, poor ability to stand up for myself, and all the abuse that tends to gravitate toward that weakness/damage. So one can make the case that it was "MY KARMA" that "FORCED" them to behave that way, as the moth is drawn inexorably to the flame, because things always "fit" - one person's abuse "fits" the other person's dysfunction (see abusive spouses, for example). But that doesn't mean it was my fault! *I* was damaged, and, thus, attracted similarly damaged people! Birds of a feather and all that jazz.

But I needed help and understanding, not further condemnation!

So while this "guidance" might, in some cases, result in a positive take-charge attitude and foster self-responsibility (which is good), for me it just fed my dysfunction, and led to me trying to be responsible for things that really weren't my responsibility. For example, when a boss told me "There have been anonymous complaints about you", I immediately started speculating about who it might have been and what I might have done that could have resulted in that person feeling it necessary to lodge a complaint with my boss. That's the "responsible" thing to do, right? As it turned out, it was my boss (who was fired shortly thereafter) who had the problem, and was simply using that lame "anonymous complaints" shtick so as to not have to take ownership for her own issues. If I had not been so damaged, I would have responded, "Is that so? Well, tell me who it is who is having the problem so that we can resolve it together!" And if she wouldn't name names, I would have said, "Fine. Let's go discuss this with your boss. Together."

Ah, if only foresight were as 20/20 as hindsight!! :P

Quote

I private messaged you because it was appropriate given the subject matter, Wakatta1 scolded you also ON THIS BOARD or did his sarcasm go over your head? You were WRONG to post what you did, and you owe him an apology and this entire board for your attempts to monopolize it. It is RUDE to REPEATEDLY post walls and walls of text, have you ever participated on a MB before? You are butthurt because I called you out on your crap, and since you did not want to keep it private, here it is. Nobody is scared of you, little girl. I will take you on anytime. - Freeheartandmind

And *I* am the one with the problem here?? Wowzers O_o