"Creating a religion free zone for children"

Perhaps play is the secret.

Genuine play. A free zone where the adults stay on the sidelines, within calling distance, but where children can create their own play and just be silly. Unproductively silly.

Remember those times when someone might say something or do something, and you and your pals would just lose it, roll around laughing uncontrollably?

By contrast, in the midst of a religion or group (even a corporate employee development program) thats rooted in Crusade Mentality, where the trainer demands total attention and shames anyone who dares make a wrong move---that kills the play instinct.

But we have to have had real play in our lives to know when someone or something has become too serious, to the point of controlling our every move and demanding every second of our attention.

In such a set up, everything is taken deadly seriously. The group and its elite are like the boyfriend or girlfriend from hell.

They want to monopolize your attention and energy, want you to give them total and perfect attention and affirmation.

If you play, that takes energy away from crusade, group and leader. It disrupts the group rhythm.

Someone else reported having been in a yoga cult and recently had a baby. This was written about play.

[forum.culteducation.com]

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As your child grows up, be very honest and do it during the time he or she is young enough to listen.

Best way to get it across is, in bad groups or relationships, they are nice to you at first
and then, long term they work you too hard and never let you play or pick your own friends.

Intensity isnt the same as love and intensity isnt the same thing as playing.

But...if you show your little one what real play is, such as by rooting around in the laundry basket, how to make a fort out of a cardboard box, put pillows in a big bathtowel and run around and pretend you're fighting trolls in the misty forests in Ireland--that's something that keeps on giving in ways you cant trace.

PS here is real fun: Have a costume box full of stuff from yard sales and Goodwill and
later on you, your wee one and friends can root around in it and then run around and
make their own stories.

You can even get your kid in on things saying, here's a yard sale, see anything you can put in the costume box for later?

There's a huge difference between creating your own stories, creating and wearing your own costumes, vs being forced into a uniform and turned into a clone of everyone else.

Other points from the Umberto Eco essay on fascism:
3. seems to point out the threat of the sharihotsu/intellectual type
4. disagreement is treason
5. This one poses a threat to the unity of believers
10. The best people in the world are YOU SGi people!
13.People in the particular group as a monolithic entity expressing the Common Will..
14. Newspeak. Eco's term is also in cult descriptions. A good description of why newspeak is useful.
Check out corboy's link if you want to see what my observations are refering to. -RB

Hitch, you brought up that stupid singing (and Spartacus refers to it as well in his articles). I joined in 1987, when they were still doing the stupid songs. I never even knew all the words! I remember back when group meetings were closed with singing "Forever Sensei" *eye roll* I remember putting my arms around other YWD/YMD (most all of us in our 20s, of course - "young" can certainly go all the way up to 50, don't you think?) and pulling each other back and forth to the point that we almost fell to the ground laughing. REAL mature, right? When I wasn't sneaking off to the restroom to get out of it, of course. Around the time of the excommunication, everything changed, and the required singing pretty much evaporated from the various meetings.

Now, though, since you brought it up, I can't get "Forever Sensei" out of my mind. There's a reason that so many religions include songs - it's a way of getting their message stuck in your brain. Like an advertising jingle! You remember those long after you've completely forgotten the print ads. That's the point - it's a memory thing. I can still remember the Christian hymns I was raised with. And at Christmas time, I still get a special feeling when I hear certain Christmas carols, like "O Holy Night" and "Come All Ye Faithful". I never played them at home, though, so my children do not associate Christian songs with Christmas.

Still - what sort of person, what sort of BUDDHIST, would allow a song of praise to be written about him, much less sung??? I was in Soka Spirit before I finally broke free, and I remember seeing anti-Nikken videos, showing him walking through a courtyard while Japanese people knelt, elbows and forearms on the ground, foreheads touching the ground, until he'd passed. We would all express our outrage: "How DARE he! Why, he's expecting to be treated like a God! 'Follow the Law, not the Person' - remember?? Now let's close the meeting with a rousing chorus of 'Forever Sensei'!"

lol - I threw in that last bit just for hilarity. Of course, by this time, we were no longer closing meetings by singing President Ikeda's praises, but that hypocrisy would have been delicious, don't you think? Who doesn't like a powerful dose of irony??

What the hell is "San-dan-kai-yay", anyhow???

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corboy
Years ago, Umberto Eco wrote an essay on the basic structure of fascism. For fun you can look at it and see whether there are any similiarities to what you saw for yourselves in SGI. Uts consists of 14 checkpoints.

Here is # 9 -- sound familiar?

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9. For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.

Thus pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. It is bad because life is permanent warfare. This, however, brings about an Armageddon complex. Since enemies have to be defeated, there must be a final battle, after which the movement will have control of the world. But such "final solutions" implies a further era of peace, a Golden Age, which contradicts the principle of permanent war. No fascist leader has ever succeeded in solving this predicament.

[www.themodernword.com]

This is the quote from corboy that I meant to quote.
I ran up against the Common Will simply by being inspired by a gosho passage that wasn't the one we were studying that month. I was admonished for being 'out of rhythm'. Not even a "That's nice that you were inspired, but that is not what we are focusing on right now," which would still be a problematic response IMO. It was rare that I would express genuine appreciation for a gosho passage and I got squashed.
In later years I was distraught by the study books on Ikeda's alleged interpretations of Nichiren's writings. Conlusions that were not credited to Ikeda or anyone, for that matter rang warning bells for me. For instance, maybe it was a letter to Shijo Kingo which 'demonstrated the strength of the mentor and disciple bond' Wait a minute! That could be said about any letter from Nichiren to any disciple. There was no other concluding point besides that. Yikes. That was a change I noticed in the study material.

"Creating a religion free zone for children"

corboy, I completely agree. The other aspect of child development is that the more rules and coercion imposed upon children, the more they will rebel later. It's so sad for a child to be compelled to rebel in typically self-destructive ways simply because his human rights have been violated! So with my children, we talk and discuss and arrive at a decision together. As you might imagine, this can be enormously frustrating and time consuming, but in the end, I want my children to be free from compulsion, free from feeling driven to express their individuality in rebellion because no one ever respected them enough to allow them to be themselves.

So when their friends come over, they're free to cuss like sailors, make messes, and shoot each other with their Airsoft guns in the backyard. Everyone who is here is invited to join us for meals; abundant tasty snacks are provided; everyone is free to sleep over whenever. This is an expression of my commitment to providing my children and their friends with a safe space where they can explore who they want to be without being judged or punished. Of course, bullying is not allowed. I have noticed that the most polite kids, who are from the most Christian homes, are the most trouble. But I embrace them regardless.

I remember one kid's mom telling me that she won't feed her kid's friends. At dinner time, she'll tell the friend(s), "We're going to eat now, so you should leave. Perhaps you can go home and have some dinner with YOUR family!" I wouldn't DREAM of doing anything so rude!!

I've decided that I'm going to have a little dialogue with my son's new Christian friend, starting off with asking him how his family would react if he decided to convert to Islam. I'm sure that would *not* be permitted. So I'll use that as a jumping off point to explain about my commitment to maintaining a safe space for my kids and their friends, which includes not attempting to persuade the kids to go against their families' norms. None of the other kids' families attend his church, so it's a fair bet they're involved in different flavors of Christianity. The neighbor boys' family is Catholic, for example. I'll tell him that I respect him too much to ask him to stop "witnessing," if this is really important to him and a part of who he is, but that I need to know if that's indeed the case. If he plans to continue to proselytize, in other words, I'll need to inform the other kids' parents that this is a possibility, so that they can decide whether they're okay with their kids hanging around with him. I really *hate* the way Christians so often target the young, to the point of exhorting their own youth to target their friends, when you KNOW they would be horribly offended if others were targeting THEIR kids! To be honest, I remember from my own experiences in Southern Baptist/Evangelical youth activities that the leaders exhort the youth to convert their friends, even telling them that their friends are “thirsting” for the “water of life”, and that they will appreciate so much the Christian youth’s efforts to bring to “those who sit in darkness, and in the shadow of death” the light of Christianity that they are awaiting so desperately, to be rescued from their spiritual blindness by having their eyes opened at last. If only someone will care enough, that is. It’s always couched in terms like this, that the Christian youth are doing such a big fat favor to everyone else by trying to convert them to Christianity.

In other words, I will let him know that I accept *him* unconditionally. The same way I accept everyone else. And I show this by respecting everyone else's families and decisions about how they choose to raise their children. I am always alert to the necessity of demonstrating that I'm worthy of the trust they place in me by allowing their kids to spend time over here at my house and to go places with me by responsibly keeping them informed about any issues they might be concerned about.

"I ran up against the Common Will simply by being inspired by a gosho passage that wasn't the one we were studying that month. I was admonished for being 'out of rhythm'. Not even a "That's nice that you were inspired, but that is not what we are focusing on right now," which would still be a problematic response IMO. It was rare that I would express genuine appreciation for a gosho passage and I got squashed.
In later years I was distraught by the study books on Ikeda's alleged interpretations of Nichiren's writings. Conlusions that were not credited to Ikeda or anyone, for that matter rang warning bells for me. For instance, maybe it was a letter to Shijo Kingo which 'demonstrated the strength of the mentor and disciple bond' Wait a minute! That could be said about any letter from Nichiren to any disciple. There was no other concluding point besides that. Yikes. That was a change I noticed in the study material."

Being an intellectual weenie myself, I can totally relate! "Out of rhythm" - ugh! What time frame are you talking about for the change that you noticed in the study material?

I remember being at a study meeting, studying some "writing" of President Ikeda (or whoever it was who was doing the research and preparing the article *ahem*), and this other WD member, who was leading the meeting, kept saying "platanium". It was an article about chemistry. I just sat there, thinking that "platanium" just sounded wrong - I didn't think there WAS any such thing as "platanium" - but I didn't say anything. When I got home, I looked it up, and sure enough, no such thing as "platanium." The word was "platinum". I didn't have a copy of the article in front of me for that meeting, and I hadn't read it in advance - my bad! I fired off an email to that WD member and a local leader or two, noting this and commenting that it was disappointing to me when people can't be arsed (in so many words) to even read a word right, given how much effort President Ikeda put into preparing these materials for us! (Isn't that a hoot? I actually said that "President Ikeda" stuff!! That was as close to being "on board" the Ikeda train I could muster) She got all huffy and called me some names, I'm sure, but now I can't remember :P

corboy, that article on Fascism by Umberto Edo is *AMAZING*!!!! Thanks for posting the link to it!

Taiten and Proud: Toward the end of my captivity in 2008 or early 2009 I read this summation from the Ikeda lecture series. (study material..or maybe I was out of rhythm again).
In another book, Ikeda was praising some Italian world leader. There was an asterisk with 'Club of Rome' after it. That was interesting.
I couldn't even respond to The New Human Revolution. So much bragging, chest -beating and insignificant events barely puffed up by the alleged author of 'the novel' as it was refered to by some leaders.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2013 06:46AM by rattyboy.

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corboy
Years ago, Umberto Eco wrote an essay on the basic structure of fascism. For fun you can look at it and see whether there are any similiarities to what you saw for yourselves in SGI. Uts consists of 14 checkpoints.

Here is # 9 -- sound familiar?

Quote

9. For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.

Thus pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. It is bad because life is permanent warfare. This, however, brings about an Armageddon complex. Since enemies have to be defeated, there must be a final battle, after which the movement will have control of the world. But such "final solutions" implies a further era of peace, a Golden Age, which contradicts the principle of permanent war. No fascist leader has ever succeeded in solving this predicament.

[www.themodernword.com]

Even as a high school kid, I always made jokes about the fascistic quality of the N$A cult org.. It was always a running joke between a few of us (all three of us have long since departed the cult org.) who often sat together. Whenever the audience at large venues would yell out "HAI!" in mass together, we would glance at each other, kind of giggle and then, under our breath, one of us would then murmur "Sieg Heil." It was our way of insulating ourselves from the discomfort that we often felt in cult org. mass meetings.

Number 7 really hits home for me:

"7. To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country.

This is the origin of nationalism. Besides, the only ones who can provide an identity to the nation are its enemies. Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia. But the plot must also come from the inside: Jews are usually the best target because they have the advantage of being at the same time inside and outside. In the United States, a prominent instance of the plot obsession is to be found in Pat Robertson's The New World Order, but, as we have recently seen, there are many others."

The cult org. really played this one to the hilt with so-called "fortune babies" (children born into the practice). They tried to brainwash into you that you were uber-special, your calling for Cousin Rufus a mystical bond and karmic connection. You had to hand the core of your identity and existence over to the gakkai cult - devote your life in service to it. To be born into the gakkai cult, was an extreme honor and an even more extreme responsibility. So they said, and tried to implant into your head.

What a simplistic, ignorant, manipulative and utterly evil way to get young and innocent people to think.

****

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TaitenAndProud
I remember back when group meetings were closed with singing "Forever Sensei" *eye roll* I remember putting my arms around other YWD/YMD (most all of us in our 20s, of course - "young" can certainly go all the way up to 50, don't you think?) and pulling each other back and forth to the point that we almost fell to the ground laughing. REAL mature, right?

I absolutely despised that "arm in arm" manic swaying back and forth stuff. I was protected from having to do it too much, because I was in the brass band playing the song. I can still tell you the words and play it. (Yikes!)

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TaitenAndProud
Now, though, since you brought it up, I can't get "Forever Sensei" out of my mind. There's a reason that so many religions include songs - it's a way of getting their message stuck in your brain. Like an advertising jingle! You remember those long after you've completely forgotten the print ads. That's the point - it's a memory thing. I can still remember the Christian hymns I was raised with. And at Christmas time, I still get a special feeling when I hear certain Christmas carols, like "O Holy Night" and "Come All Ye Faithful". I never played them at home, though, so my children do not associate Christian songs with Christmas.

This goes back to some of the positives of religion and what I was saying about religion and art. Christmas songs of faith, gospel music and paintings (e.g., da Vinci, The Vatican). I can enjoy and appreciate it all, while at the same time, separate all the baggage that doesn't necessarily have to go with it.

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TaitenAndProud
lol - I threw in that last bit just for hilarity. Of course, by this time, we were no longer closing meetings by singing President Ikeda's praises, but that hypocrisy would have been delicious, don't you think? Who doesn't like a powerful dose of irony??

What the hell is "San-dan-kai-yay", anyhow???

Za -dan- Ka- i(iiiii), HEY! (Zadankai).

The "world-peace" loving pseudo-buddhist cult is chalk full of irony everywhere you turn. Here are some more classic gakkai cult org. songs from the US:

(To the tune of "Yankee Doodle Dandy")

"We are Shakubuku dandies.
"Shakubuku do or die!"
Real life Bodhisattvas of the Earth,
keeping our life forces high.

Chanting lots of strong Daimoku
keeps us going day and night.

If you want to change your life
and overcome your karma,
then get your Gohonzon today."


(To the tune of "I've been working on the Railroad")

"I've been doing Shakubuku,
all the live long day.
I've been chanting Daimoku,
to get me on my way.

The eyes of the world are upon us,
and we shall never stray.
Can't you hear the members calling?
There's happiness on the way."

And the best of all, "The Shakubuku Fight Song."

"Shakubuku early in the morning.
Shakubuku late at night.
Shakubuku when the sky is storming.
Shakubuku when the sun shines bright.

Shakubuku is the way to Kosen-rufu.
In twenty years, we'll see Kosen-rufu.
Keep chanting!
Keep chanting!
We've got just twenty years to go.

Do your Gongyo early in the morning.
Daimoku late at night.
Going to follow President Ikeda,
Make this planet peaceful and bright.

Shakubuku is the way to Kosen-rufu.
In twenty years, we'll see Kosen-rufu.
Keep chanting!
Keep chanting!
We've got just twenty years to go."

Well, the 20 years has come and gone (twice) and they are still waiting for Cousin Rufus. Let the manipulation continue.


- Hitch

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TaitenAndProud
The other aspect of child development is that the more rules and coercion imposed upon children, the more they will rebel later. It's so sad for a child to be compelled to rebel in typically self-destructive ways simply because his human rights have been violated!

Place: My Home
Event: District Meeting in 1980-something
Background: One of the headquarter leaders was attending the district meeting and the her daughter was running amuk (and I do mean AMUK!). I asked her - (mom- the hq chief) if she could settle her daughter down because she had just knocked some things down and was just getting wilder and wilder as the meeting continued.

Her answer was: "Oh no! I never get involved with trying to control my little <name>.... I don't want to repress her free spirit. We should just ignore it.... And by the way, don't you be telling me what I should or shouldn't do with my child..."

My Point: If my children tore up Ms HQ Leader's house during a daimoku toso or such, (she was very house proud) she would have demanded someone on "our" side to "get guidance". Nevertheless, in her little world, it was far more convenient for her to shirk her responsibility by not guiding and managing her sweet little <name> than to respect the family's whose home she was visiting. Of course she was a HQ leader and all and was above having to concern herself with such affairs.

So, when children are growing up, is it the case that they already innately know right from wrong, and will 100% of the time do the right thing if left alone? Who needs parents? As a child I recall coercion being applied - Don't Lie, Don't Steal, Keep your promises, etc. and that obviously was all just a waste of time since I already knew it. I wish someone would have clued my parents into that earlier, it would have saved me a lot of spankings. I could have spent the rest of my life living in my mom's basement and avoided all that career junk... Now they tell me...

Oh, and I'm so glad I never have to sing "forever whats-his-name" ever again...

Wakatta1