Doubtful, you raise some good points.

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When I think back I cannot believe I did SGI for over 20 years. I too enjoyed some things about the organization and the practice but I eventually disliked the idea that the practice can help you control outcomes. If that were true the members would be much more successful professionally, romantically, and financially. The majority are not which is fine--they are human--but the publications and leaders constantly peddle SGI as a "get rich" or "get successful" method--particularly if goals are set with Ikeda in mind: if he's your mentor. This is bullshit. He was never my mentor and I did well in all respects. Even when I had extreme difficulties, I overcame them and he was not my declared mentor. I hope that the members, especially the young people, don't genuinely believe they need to follow him in order to succeed. I suspect most members filter out the stuff they really don't accept and remain with the organization for other reasons. To this day I am not sure how I feel about my long time participation. I don't think it brought anything bad into my life.

I could have written that exact same paragraph, except for the last sentence. In my case, it WAS bad for me, because it strenghtened my attachments and caused me to be MORE delusional. I honestly felt I could change reality by repeating magic words! As I've written earlier, I did not give money to the needy - I just *chanted* for them! Or perhaps I mentioned "Nam myoho renge kyo" to them. Wasn't that kind and virtuous of me???

The SGI both hooked me in via the magical thinking left behind in my subconscious from my early childhood indoctrination into Evangelical Christianity, and even though I'm an atheist, that was the last bit to go. Once it went, I realized there was no further purpose to chanting or any of the rest. (Feel free to continue if it pleases you, of course.)

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There are so many beautiful ways to be spiritual and to transform your life-- if you read about other traditions and learn from other spiritual teachers for just a few months-- the superficiality of SGI will begin to be obvious.

Ain't that the truth?? For me, it started with 9/11 - I read Thich Nhat Hahn's letter and was very impressed. On a different message board, I was exposed to ideas from the Pali Canon...ideas that conflicted entirely with Nichiren Buddhism. And that were obviously superior to Nichiren Buddhism.

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I had always felt that we members were discouraged from reading other Buddhist sects or teachers.

Yes, there was most definitely a sense of an "approved reading list." And it consisted almost exclusively of Daisaku Ikeda's publications. I'll bet no one else in the world buys them. We were told to ignore ALL the sutras except for the Lotus Sutra (even though Nichiren quotes copiously from the Nirvana Sutra, a particularly nasty piece of work) - and for good reason: Every time I read something from the other sutras, I found them hugely impressive.

Another detail that made it easier for me to leave was that there was really no social connecting within the SGI. It was all and only for the organization's benefit. If they announced some sort of local festival, like the Temecula Avocado Festival, it was never in the context of "This sounds like something you and your families can enjoy - please go and have a good time!" It was always "We'll have a booth there, so sign up to work the booth and do lots of shakubuku for the SGI!!" Gross. When I stopped going to meetings, I got 2 phone calls - both to invite me to activities. I just got together last month with the only member I'd had any sort of long-term personal relationship with (she's a Japanese ex-pat, still in SGI), and she told me that our District WD leader had *DIED*!! She was younger than me! I'm just 52! And nobody even bothered to call me and tell me. It's truly "out of sight, out of mind" with the SGI - if you aren't making their activities a success, you can just drop dead! Oops! I guess there was no pretense that she'd ever considered me a friend - wouldn't you invite a person's friends to their funeral?? So much for the "family-like environment" of the all-important districts, eh?

You point out that you reached the inevitable conclusion that almost no one in the US is interested in the SGI. I agree. However, this is quite peculiar - I'll refer back to your "get rich" comments. Christianity is in decline - free fall, actually - but the fastest growing sect is Pentecostalism, and they promote what they call "Prosperity Theology" or "the Prosperity Gospel." In a nutshell, the more money you give to the church, the more "God" will magically make money appear for you to use! Sound familiar?? SO if there was *any* way the SGI could be successful, it would be by promising a similar "get rich quick" scheme! But even with THAT, it can't sell itself! That must be hugely frustrating for the leadership. BTW, if you take a look at this chart, you'll see that, despite their teachings of how Jesus died so that they could all be rich (no, I'm not making that up), they remain the poorest and least educated of all the Christian denominations: Nice chart comparing sects

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Imagine that there was a brand of theology in which people were taught that God has promised to give followers an additional arm, right from the center of their chest. Let’s say it taught that scripture had everywhere indicated that this was the case, and that by believing this “fuller” version of the gospel, you were opening up the as-of-yet closed off area of blessings that Christians have forgotten about (i.e. growing another appendage to better do God’s work).

Let’s imagine that after about 50 years the movement has spread worldwide, with followers numbering in the millions, and you look to see how many of these folks have in fact grown that “arm of the Lord.” Upon inspection you find that the vast majority of them have lost an arm, leaving them worse off and less able to serve than even those old two-armed folk. The irony would be overwhelming.

Despite the statistics, and the continued empirical evidence of devastated human lives (Pentecostals also have the most divorces), few if any Christians have plainly spoken against the Prosperity Gospel, or raised awareness that measures any merit. While high-level corruption and financial disarray are the soup du jour of recent weeks’ media cycles, this prominent and aberrant theology has been allowed to wreak destruction on a mass of people who are grasping at economic straws.

Prosperity Gospel theology is bankrupt. The debate raged for years about how much sense coveting money made in the context of biblical principles, but now the fruit has been borne and the numbers don’t lie: those who attend Prosperity Gospel churches are in fact worse off for it. "Poor, Dumb, and Pentecostal" says it all

Since leaving the SGI, my family's wealth has more than quadrupled, my kids are doing really well, extended family is good, and, most importantly, I'm so much happier. And that has made my marriage happier. Now that I'm not wasting so much of my time on that practice and activities, I have more creativity, I'm accomplishing more, and I'm limiting my time to the friends whose company I enjoy. It's a far more healthy and sensible way to live.

I remember one young woman, a single mom - I've mentioned her before, I'm sure - who had arrived in her mid-30s with no college degree and no significant work experience, so the only jobs she was qualified for were entry level, and she felt that was "beneath her". So she was chanting 4 hours a day, "to change her financial karma"! When I told her, as gently as I could, that even the most experienced Japanese members say it typically takes 10 years to change financial karma (long enough to get that college degree and accumulate relevant work experience, in other words), she blew a gasket - raged at me "I DON'T HAVE TEN YEARS! I NEED MY FINANCIAL KARMA TO CHANGE NOW!!!" and called me nasty names, told me I was a horrible mother to my children, and that's the last I ever heard of her. I hope she's okay - I still feel pangs of guilt because I was one of the people feeding her delusion that she could get something for nothing :/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2013 03:46AM by TaitenAndProud.

Don't know if you guys ever checked out of curiosity, but I have yet to find ONE volume of Daisaku Ikeda's published works in the public libraries I've frequented. There was only one time, in a city where I lived earlier--one of the earliest installments of the Human Revolution. Everywhere else, Senor Ikeda is not represented at all among various and numerous Buddhist books.

Hmmmmmm. You might think with all the money at SGI disposal, that book donations to public libraries would be paramount.

It is out of sight/out of mind with the SGI, I can vouch for that in personal experience---however, that's where I'm residing now. Back in the old city, they would be all over me like white on rice. I'm not saying that with a mean spirit, because I had close relationships with many of them, and it was definetely more of a real love-bomb type of deal, which does not exist where I'm at now. I also was genuinely involved in the practice and didn't have many "complaints".

Not complaining about being "left out to sea" now, though!

@sixtyseven---How true is your statement. Mentors do not seek out protection.

@doubtful, glad you are doing great!

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TaitenAndProud
One of the priorities in the SGI is "youthful exuberance". So Danny Nagashima's playing his part. But, frankly, he's always been like that. I first met him in the early 1990s, and he was like that. It's that...wait for it...A! A! O! spirit :D I think that's one of the reasons he got the nod for that position, because that exuberance comes naturally to him. I don't think I'd want to go to a basketball game with him, though! He'd probably accidentally spill something on someone from jumping up and down in excitement!

I was long gone by the time Nagashima popped up. Based on all the clips and photos I've seen of him, one word comes to mind:

FAKE.

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TaitenAndProud
So anyhow, that was a long overnight bus trip, from Minneapolis to Philadelphia. At one point, in Philadelphia, we were all waiting in a parking lot for the buses to come pick us up and take us on a tour of the city. It was sunny; I'm fair-skinned, so I had my back turned to the sun. I was told to turn my right shoulder to the sun so that I would be properly lined up, facing the same way as everyone else, to wait in nice straight lines for the buses (that never came). I refused - why should I get a half sunburn just for the sake of someone else's fixation/obsession with people being lined up just so???

There has always been an element of gakkai cult "leaders" who like to behave like super-nazi's and try to dictate and nitpick to the smallest of details, your behavior, appearance and even attitude. Super controlling freaks, some of them are (or try to be). It comes from them being paranoid about how the group or activity they are in charge of will come across to their higher ups. If everything isn't somehow picture perfect, they feel they somehow have failed. With this, comes the tendency to treat members like cattle and not human beings (to the point of being rude, insulting and condescending). I've seen it and experienced it many, many times (unfortunately).

****

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doubtful
-- the superficiality of SGI will begin to be obvious.

Have always thought the $GI (old N$A) cult doctrine was superficial. What always seemed to impress other members around me, sounded to me like meaningless drivel. They all thought it was deep, while I thought is was shallow.

I particularly have always disliked the gosho-thumpers, too. "Page number "so-and-so" of the gosho zenshu states .....", I'd always have to suppress an overwhelming desire to roll my eyes and let out a huge sigh. The other common one was, "As President Ikeda says .....", I always wanted to raise my hand and ask: "President of what exactly and who elected him?" (I know the answer, of course, now: President of the CULT and he elected himself.)


- Hitch

Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa Daisaku

Daimoku ..... I'll win the war

Daisaku promise to love your forever more

Daisaku knowing my fate is to be with you

Whoa whoa whoa Daisaku

Finally chanting the daimoku ....

[www.youtube.com]

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Gakkai cult member 'original' composition for HQ kick-off meeting (remember those?) 'entertainment.'

Not brainwashed, ehh? Yeah right.

CULT!


- Hitch

Daisaku knowing my fate is to be with you ... Let's all drink The Cousin Rufus Kool-Aid together! KANPAI!!!


- Hitch

Typical low level [group, district, and chapter] leaders meeting from memory

Gossipy Gakkai or No Secrets in the Gakkai, NO, NO, NO

Leader # 1: Sally's fath is really weak.
Leader# 2. Yeah, I know. She missed that important leaders meeting yesterday and several last month and failed to report that Ralph didn't hand in his World Tribune money yesterday.
Leader # 1: Yes. I've been speaking to Mr. Bigshotamatsu about Sally, and he said she can't be trusted. He advised me that we should have a special meeting about the Chapters future at your house this week, with just you me and Cindy.
Leader # 2: Good. I think we shouldn't tell Dan because he is very close to Sally.
Leader # 1: Your right. Also, we can communicate directly with her members about any new developments. Mr Bigshotamatsu is working very closely with our Chapter this month and we don't want the members to miss a thing!
Leader # 2: He told me the Danto campaign should be our first priority.
Leader # 1: Sally's former member Todd should be visited. He was very close with her but didn't like the organization I heard.
Leader # 2: We should try and visit him this week. Lets go on Tuesday.
Leader # 1: Tuesday is good for me.
Leader # 2: Isn't Sally off on Tuesdays?
Leader # 1: Uhhuh. I think it would be better if we didn't tell her.
Leader # 2: Your right. We can also give her World Tribune responsibilities to Mona or Bill:
Leader # 1: Bill is honest and you know, Mona only completed her drug rehab program six months ago.
Leader # 2: She's doing great but still....
Leader # 1: So we can ask Bill tomorrow.
Leader # 2: Ok

Nichijew



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2013 12:41PM by Nichijew.

They are lead by the bridle like so many horses.

SGI teaches much that is false and they package it neatly in their periodic study exams for the purpose of brainwashing the members. This is one reason SGI members reside in the realm of darkness. Another reason is that they have neither seeking spirit to study other than the SGI materials nor do they exercise their powers of critical thinking. They are lead by the bridle like so many horses. It is a pity. It is a shame

Nichijew

Typical low level [group, district, and chapter] leaders meeting from memory

Gossipy Gakkai or No Secrets in the Gakkai, NO, NO, NO

heh heh heh DEJA VU!!!

"Bigshotamatsu" .... HAHA!! Salaried leader, no doubt. "Follow the Leader" is the name of the game in the gakkai cult.

Sally was probably breaking one of the core $oka commandments - thinking for herself. She also probably had a trait that is not suitable for being a cult "leader" (even a low level one) - a conscience.

Better to have dysfunctional and unthinking people without a conscience in leadership positions, because they are the easiest to manipulate and can best carry out the mind games on the membership.

The gakkai cult org. is like a glorified adult high school, with gossip queens (WD), backstabbers and mentally immature members everywhere.


- Hitch

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Nichijew
They are lead by the bridle like so many horses.

SGI teaches much that is false and they package it neatly in their periodic study exams for the purpose of brainwashing the members. This is one reason SGI members reside in the realm of darkness. Another reason is that they have neither seeking spirit to study other than the SGI materials nor do they exercise their powers of critical thinking. They are lead by the bridle like so many horses. It is a pity. It is a shame

Nichijew

Absolutely great "dialogue", Nichijew! I remember hearing and knowing that leaders did discuss members' details--in the pretense of gaging where one's faith was at.

Members are not encouraged to have a seeking spirit toward much that does not jive with the SGI---bad cause! Hell is the outcome if you do!

It is indeed a shame.

@Hitch---that song. Oh, oh dear. Distressing, to say the least. That's what this has all come to.