Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
TaitenAndProud
()
Date: January 12, 2013 09:17AM
heh heh This is kind of funny. I was noodling around, and I found this site: Pretty dead SGI site - even the faithful are dreading the Dear Leader
They were wondering whether Hiromasa Ikeda might be Josei Toda reincarnated (I am NOT kidding) and all sorts of other nonsense, so I couldn't resist posting THIS:
Oh barf.
The only reason anyone is aware of Hiromasa Ikeda is because he has a famous daddy who's pushing him into the spotlight.
Well, I got an email (!) from some guy over there with a long copy-and-paste of a gosho passage >:(
And I think they deleted my contribution >:(
They were wondering whether Hiromasa Ikeda might be Josei Toda reincarnated (I am NOT kidding) and all sorts of other nonsense, so I couldn't resist posting THIS:
Oh barf.
The only reason anyone is aware of Hiromasa Ikeda is because he has a famous daddy who's pushing him into the spotlight.
Well, I got an email (!) from some guy over there with a long copy-and-paste of a gosho passage >:(
And I think they deleted my contribution >:(
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Hitch
()
Date: January 12, 2013 10:18AM
Quote
TaitenAndProud
I remember one of my first leaders meetings, which must have been back around 1988, and this one young woman, who I think was either a group chief or a chapter chief, was saying something that's always stuck with me. She said that, when a new person joined, their initial fee got them a gohonzon and a month or three subscription to the World Tribune weekly newspaper. She went on to say that, when these new people did not choose to continue their subscriptions, the person who had shakubukued them was *REQUIRED* to pick up the subscription and pay for it out of their own pocket, so that the subscription numbers would never go down! She was saying that this was proving to be a severe obstacle for shakubuku, because she was already paying for, like, 10 subscriptions, and she wasn't willing to get stuck paying for more.
I think it became an official requirement for new members to take out a one year (special newbie rate) subscription (and pay up in full, in advance) in order to even receive their gohonzon now.
It was common in the 80's for members to pick up the subscription fees for the ghost-members (who never really existed, because they disappeared as quickly as they were handed a gohonzon) in order to keep up appearances on paper for the higher ups on cult org. ladder. They would "voluntarily" shuffle the responsibility for paying, around to each another, month by month, until the campaign come to a close. The charade of course could only be kept up for so long before the house of cards eventually completely collapses; when it did, it was one ingredient in Williams' downfall.
The entire cult is based on a lie and the organization is maintained by fear. The lowliest of members fearing their "leaders", who fear their "leaders", all the way up to the top of the cult org. ladder to the General Director, fearing the wrath of the Cult HQ. VP's from Shinanomachi, who in turn answer to The Dear Leader himself.
One thing I always wanted to ask people during all of this was "why the need for all of this, if the chanting really works?" Gakkai members are not known to be able to actually think for themselves. "Pac-Man" shakubuku (Wakatta1's term) is very apt. Such a mentality says to hell with the fact that these are actually people who they are eating up, not numbers.
Quote
TaitenAndProud
One more thing - when I was still a member, I was involved in Soka Spirit and went to this meeting up in LA. A big cheese YWD leader opened her remarks by saying, "Since I've been practicing, I have helped more than four hundred people get gohonzon!" Much clapping. "Do you know how many of them are still practicing today? Two." No clapping. But this is the reality.
My reading of that "experience" is, she tried to manipulate over 400 people but only actually succeeded in shackling two to the cult org.. I would have been standing up and applauding for the 398 that got away and didn't drink The Dear Leader's Kool-Aid.
Typical cult org. "leader" mentality. All the big cheeses in the USA cult org. stink and have about the same IQ as a block of cheese (JMO).
- Hitch
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
TaitenAndProud
()
Date: January 12, 2013 10:28AM
Since you brought up Mr. Williams, what's the deal with him? I read on one source that he didn't vilify the priesthood quickly enough when they excommunicated Ikeda and so he had to *go*. I have also heard that he criticized then-NSA's financial "house of cards".
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Hitch
()
Date: January 12, 2013 11:37AM
I believe it was a combination of factors. Loyalty displays during the excommunication, his popularity in the USA cult org., and when the org. numbers went south, he was the man who got all the fingers pointed at him. That said, he was just one of many cult puppet masters and any of them could quickly and easily meet with the exact same fate, any time. They live in perpetual concern of staying in favor with their higher-ups.
As for the main reason, ... I don't know. However, back in the 90's (after he was removed) he was spending a lot of time and effort (traveling far and wide) in getting back "danto" members, whom he of course could have great influence over. This leads me to believe that there may be actually something more related to the priesthood conflict, as rumored, as a big factor.
He sounded very bitter about the cult org. health status under subsequent General Directors, too.
- Hitch
As for the main reason, ... I don't know. However, back in the 90's (after he was removed) he was spending a lot of time and effort (traveling far and wide) in getting back "danto" members, whom he of course could have great influence over. This leads me to believe that there may be actually something more related to the priesthood conflict, as rumored, as a big factor.
He sounded very bitter about the cult org. health status under subsequent General Directors, too.
- Hitch
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
TaitenAndProud
()
Date: January 12, 2013 11:59AM
I remember looking through some old publications - and I recognized him! But his name wasn't George Williams then! It was something like "Masayasu Sadanaga". First of all, I thought it was deuced *ODD* for a Japanese national to change his name to something European-American sounding, and second of all, WHY did he choose a name he himself couldn't even pronounce?? He would say "Johj" instead of "George" and "Wirams" instead of "Williams"! Why didn't they choose "Jack Johnson" or something? Smith? ANYTHING but Williams!!
I was in Soka Spirit for several years, and I always attempted to bring a magnanimous and humanistic attitude to it (one that was all too often missing). But srsly. Why not let everyone choose for themselves?? Where in Buddhism does it say, "You have to be a complete control freak and force others to do stuff for their own good?"
Have you been following what's been going on at Soka University? That whole project was completed after we moved out here to So. CA, and I even participated in the Opening Ceremonies with a dance troupe. I remember that one mom with the crippled son inviting my son to go to a special "Day at Soka" or something there at the university, and I told her that, as my son was only 5th grade, I did not think that was appropriate! WHY should a 5th grader be going on tours of ANY university and sitting through inspirational speeches by Gakkai students?? She got all huffy with me about it and afterward reported that her son had SOOOO much fun. Fine - whatever. It was always a point of friction with me and my leaders, because they were of the opinion that ALL SGI families should have a shared goal - having their children go to college at Soka University. I always said that I would let my children's choice of major determine which university they'd go to - we'd aim for the best school in whichever field they chose! That didn't go over very well, as you can imagine >:(
Say, this just came to mind, and I'm going to post it somewhere else as well, but as a teen I was in *love* with the David Carradine Kung Fu series. I was being raised Evangelical Christian (oh, it was desperately icky), and everybody at school was completely into Kung Fu. I got away with watching it until my mother passed by as there was an image of some old lama guy chanting and flames and stuff and she immediately turned off the tv, saying, "That's satanic and you won't be watching it any more!" Years later, I started practicing this Japanese Buddhism. 20+ years later, I was done. But I always wanted to revisit Kung Fu and see how the Buddhism, in particular, had turned out, since it was partly Bruce Lee's brainchild (and he's Chinese!). By this time, I had been reading quite a lot outside of SGI, and I felt I had a decent understanding of REAL Buddhism. Well, I managed to find the episodes, and I was absolutely THRILLED! They got the Buddhism exactly right! I always recommend this series to someone who's interested in Buddhism, because Caine's example of living as a Buddhist is first-rate. Sure, he manages to open a can of Whup Ass on some bad guys within the first 10 minutes, but only because he HAS to! :D
I was in Soka Spirit for several years, and I always attempted to bring a magnanimous and humanistic attitude to it (one that was all too often missing). But srsly. Why not let everyone choose for themselves?? Where in Buddhism does it say, "You have to be a complete control freak and force others to do stuff for their own good?"
Have you been following what's been going on at Soka University? That whole project was completed after we moved out here to So. CA, and I even participated in the Opening Ceremonies with a dance troupe. I remember that one mom with the crippled son inviting my son to go to a special "Day at Soka" or something there at the university, and I told her that, as my son was only 5th grade, I did not think that was appropriate! WHY should a 5th grader be going on tours of ANY university and sitting through inspirational speeches by Gakkai students?? She got all huffy with me about it and afterward reported that her son had SOOOO much fun. Fine - whatever. It was always a point of friction with me and my leaders, because they were of the opinion that ALL SGI families should have a shared goal - having their children go to college at Soka University. I always said that I would let my children's choice of major determine which university they'd go to - we'd aim for the best school in whichever field they chose! That didn't go over very well, as you can imagine >:(
Say, this just came to mind, and I'm going to post it somewhere else as well, but as a teen I was in *love* with the David Carradine Kung Fu series. I was being raised Evangelical Christian (oh, it was desperately icky), and everybody at school was completely into Kung Fu. I got away with watching it until my mother passed by as there was an image of some old lama guy chanting and flames and stuff and she immediately turned off the tv, saying, "That's satanic and you won't be watching it any more!" Years later, I started practicing this Japanese Buddhism. 20+ years later, I was done. But I always wanted to revisit Kung Fu and see how the Buddhism, in particular, had turned out, since it was partly Bruce Lee's brainchild (and he's Chinese!). By this time, I had been reading quite a lot outside of SGI, and I felt I had a decent understanding of REAL Buddhism. Well, I managed to find the episodes, and I was absolutely THRILLED! They got the Buddhism exactly right! I always recommend this series to someone who's interested in Buddhism, because Caine's example of living as a Buddhist is first-rate. Sure, he manages to open a can of Whup Ass on some bad guys within the first 10 minutes, but only because he HAS to! :D
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Hitch
()
Date: January 12, 2013 12:39PM
The higher up you go in the cult org., the more you let them make all your life decisions for you: where you live, what you do, the direction your life takes, what your family "should" do and even, who and when you should get married.
Case in point: Sadanaga (aka - Williams) wound up marrying a fellow cult member who "mystically" found his omamori (pocket) gohonzon when he lost it. Guess who suggested it was "time" to get married (for Cousin Rufus, of course) ...... The Dear Leader.
I also recall that there were many fellow mis-fortune babies running around who were actually named by The Dear Leader, by request of hardcore gakkai cult brainwashed parents.
You start off in the "YOUTH!" division, be a good obeying cult member for your entire life, they eventually set you up with a salaried position and later, if you play the game right, a cult selected spouse and area for you to serve as a mini-overlord cult master (actually, slave) yourself. Then, you have kids and the process recycles.
My original area, the membership, consists of many second and third generation people who have been brought up in the cult org.. This may be becoming a common theme in both the USA cult org. and in the motherland. In Japan, there are more and more stories of mis-fortune babies who grow up fighting to escape the insanity of the their parents bizarre "religion" (in this case, cult) - much like many of the stories and experiences of mormon children in the U.S.. As time goes on, I think the number of escapees (and their stories) will only increase. Let's hope some of them find their way to this mb to share and help others, too.
- Hitch
Case in point: Sadanaga (aka - Williams) wound up marrying a fellow cult member who "mystically" found his omamori (pocket) gohonzon when he lost it. Guess who suggested it was "time" to get married (for Cousin Rufus, of course) ...... The Dear Leader.
I also recall that there were many fellow mis-fortune babies running around who were actually named by The Dear Leader, by request of hardcore gakkai cult brainwashed parents.
You start off in the "YOUTH!" division, be a good obeying cult member for your entire life, they eventually set you up with a salaried position and later, if you play the game right, a cult selected spouse and area for you to serve as a mini-overlord cult master (actually, slave) yourself. Then, you have kids and the process recycles.
My original area, the membership, consists of many second and third generation people who have been brought up in the cult org.. This may be becoming a common theme in both the USA cult org. and in the motherland. In Japan, there are more and more stories of mis-fortune babies who grow up fighting to escape the insanity of the their parents bizarre "religion" (in this case, cult) - much like many of the stories and experiences of mormon children in the U.S.. As time goes on, I think the number of escapees (and their stories) will only increase. Let's hope some of them find their way to this mb to share and help others, too.
- Hitch
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
TaitenAndProud
()
Date: January 12, 2013 01:38PM
While I was living in St. Thomas, I briefly met some members who were vacationing from Chicago, I think. Anyhow, the mom told me that they had had Mr. Williams name all their children! "We just *loved* Mr. Williams," she said. He even chose a name they *HATED* - "Eugene"! So they gave him a middle name that began with a "J" and started calling him "EJ". What is *wrong* with these people??
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Freeheartandmind
()
Date: January 12, 2013 02:54PM
Quote
ShavoyQuote
TaitenAndProud
Welcome to all board newcomers! Congratulations on opening your eyes and getting out of the cult that is SGI.
Thank you! Never been happier!
Crazy pot smokers, abusive behavior, so-called "fortune babies", I won't restate it all here, but at various points in the thread I have described my experience with all of these things as an unfortunate "Youth!" member of what was in the 1970's, NSA.
When I joined in 1987, it was still "NSA". The other stuff was still going on. The overall feel was very militaristic.
The one fortune baby I personally knew of (I babysat the poor child) was born to a father that beat the mother so badly she had to leave the state to get away from him. Eventually the man was convicted of attempted murder, I think. Both mother and father were devoted members, and the father had a leadership position. I know that higher level leaders knew about the abuse because the mother told me she went for "guidance" numerous times. Yet, this man was allowed to retain his position. Why would untrained and unqualified people even attempt to give anybody "guidance" about such a serious situation? What's worse than the missing training is the missing compassion. This woman had two children from a prior marriage and I was afraid for all of them.
That's so sad. When I was still practicing where I started, in Minneapolis, there was this young girl, and her mom was a District Leader and her divorced husband was still in the organization as a leader at some level. Then I learned that he'd been convicted and imprisoned for *raping* that young girl, when she was just 11 or 12! The mom said to me that they'd been co-District Leaders at that time, and she'd wondered why he started staying home from District meetings. To rape her daughter, that's why!
When I practiced in North Carolina, this rather scary couple moved into my District, from New York or somewhere. The wife was clearly the dominant personality, abrasive and outspoken. The husband typically just sat there like a doughy mass. I tried to like them, but she scared me. She used to tell us about what "strict guidance" she'd been giving him - all my leadership training had emphasized that wives must *NEVER* give guidance to their husbands, but I said nothing. The only reason I can defend such a policy is that it is wrong to raise one person in the couple above the other. But anyhow, he'd apparently had enough, and he threatened her with a gun. She jumped in her car and took off. He got into his car and took off right behind her - ramming her car with his. They were playing the 911 tape on the news. She was chanting the whole time, in between the screaming. The police joined up; she pulled into the parking lot of a 7-11 and waited while the police took off after her husband. He doubled back to the parking lot and shot her dead.
Those two incidents enabled me to overcome my delusion that Nichiren Buddhism was so "correct" that it would reliably motivate people to become better. I was so deluded! :P
It wasn't until I was out that I learned, from this board, that SGI and Ikea both have billions of dollars in assets. Billions! Yet members are hounded to provide free labor and cash contributions too. This is what makes SGI's blasphemous likening of Ikea to Gandhi and Martin Luther King even more hypocritical and sickening. Gandhi and King never aspired to acquire wealth, and both endured considerable suffering during their respective campaigns for freedom. What has Ikea ever sacrificed? Why SGI members cannot understand this boggles the mind.
Agreed. It's just gross. One interesting detail I learned about the Buddha's teachings, when I started reading outside the SGI's approved reading list, is that there is a sort of "planned obsolescence" incorporated in the Buddha's teachings. Attachment causes suffering - that's one of the 4 Noble Truths. Notice that it's not "BAD attachment" - ALL attachment, whether good or bad, virtuous or evil, causes suffering. It doesn't matter how we categorize it, in other words - our job is to rid ourselves of attachments in order to rid ourselves of suffering.
Clinging to a religion or belief system is just another form of attachment. In the course of ridding ourselves of attachment, we must let go of our religious beliefs at some point and proceed unencumbered. All by ourselves. The point of the Buddha's teachings is to help us learn how to think and how to perceive and understand reality, so that we can then become free to live within it. To say that people must "chant until the last moment of your life" shows a deep misunderstanding of the principle of attachment within Buddhism. In the end, in order to become enlightened, the Buddhist must leave Buddhism behind. It's a revolutionary thought and one completely at odds with all the religions that seek to profit off everybody they can sucker in.[/quote
There are a lot of sad tales of leaders seemingly fighting soo hard for Kosen-Rufu and the Mentor, and their private lives are filled with tragedy and delusion that never appears to get addressed properly. What sobering examples you relayed here, TaitenAndProud. What sobering examples.
It's so much about chasing The Carrot of Absolute Happiness.
SGI uses the money to buy Mr. Ikeda over 300+ honorary doctorates. 300+! Does that not ring an "huh???" from members? If some did look into it without accepting at face value, they'd see that most of these universities are obscure and probably were very happy to accept the donation.
Savoy, the quote you used was mine (freeheartandmind), not taiten and proud's. No biggie, just wanted to clarify.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Nichijew
()
Date: January 12, 2013 03:56PM
Quote
TaitenAndProud
Nichijew, why is it that you say that your wife is alive today BECAUSE you left the SGI?
Nancy had many medical and psychiatric problems that began or worsened after having joined the SGI. She had cirrhosis, asthma, diabetes, cardiomyopathy, hep C, htn, blackouts, and five herniated discs from all the falls. She was drinking more than a quart and a half of vodka and 12-24 buds a day plus [whatever she could get her hands on]. She was smoking 2 packs of cigarettes a day. We had a running joke that she would be the prettiest corpse in the funeral home. Of course, she only appeared normal until right before we left the SGI when she couldn't get out of bed and had to be fed my 10 year old daughter.
The more we chanted to the SGI No-honzon, the more SGI activities we did, and the more guidances we received from the very top leaders who shared the "confidential" details of her illness with others, the worse she got. We still believed in the Lotus Sutra and when I came upon the internet and the truth about the SGI "religion" [cult], we began to embrace the same faith and practice as Nichiren Daishonin. She hasn't had a drink for 15 years, her cirrhosis and heart failure resolved, she stopped smoking and no longer wheezes, her diabetes is well controlled, and her pain is very manageable. Nancy is an investor in rare Buddha heads and 17th century silver objects, our house is immaculate, she cooks up a storm almost daily, and takes care of me and our many animals. Our grown children are very proud of her and they rely on her for her sage advice. Had we remained in the SGI, she certainly would have been dead.
N
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Hitch
()
Date: January 12, 2013 05:11PM
Nichijew,
"She hasn't had a drink for 15 years, her cirrhosis and heart failure resolved, she stopped smoking and no longer wheezes, her diabetes is well controlled, and her pain is very manageable. Nancy is an investor in rare Buddha heads and 17th century silver objects, our house is immaculate, she cooks up a storm almost daily, and takes care of me and our many animals. Our grown children are very proud of her and they rely on her for her sage advice."
That was was a joy to read. It put a smile on my face. Truly wonderful.
****
And as proof of gakkai cult member sick-mindedness, I'm positive there are many gakkai members who don't like the fact that things turned out so well for you (or any ex-cult member, for that matter) or that any ex-gakkai cult member is happier than when they were in the cult org..
Many longtime members and ex-members will know that this is true; it really burns gakkai cult members' gonads when people succeed after rejecting the cult org. & Dear Leader.
- Hitch
"She hasn't had a drink for 15 years, her cirrhosis and heart failure resolved, she stopped smoking and no longer wheezes, her diabetes is well controlled, and her pain is very manageable. Nancy is an investor in rare Buddha heads and 17th century silver objects, our house is immaculate, she cooks up a storm almost daily, and takes care of me and our many animals. Our grown children are very proud of her and they rely on her for her sage advice."
That was was a joy to read. It put a smile on my face. Truly wonderful.
****
And as proof of gakkai cult member sick-mindedness, I'm positive there are many gakkai members who don't like the fact that things turned out so well for you (or any ex-cult member, for that matter) or that any ex-gakkai cult member is happier than when they were in the cult org..
Many longtime members and ex-members will know that this is true; it really burns gakkai cult members' gonads when people succeed after rejecting the cult org. & Dear Leader.
- Hitch
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