Wakatta1:"As someone who has spent more than a few nights at the "atheist hotel" I can relate to your point somewhat, however, like Buddhism or any other belief system, there are differing shades of atheism."


There are even sects within atheism! Google "atheist +, or atheist plus". Some atheists apparently feel that there is even a right way to "do" atheism.

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Tibbs
I must have stumbled onto the wrong forum. I thought we were here to take about the SGI. Not to make catty remarks about "atheists" and their "dogmas".

I can only speak for my posts.

Getting free from SGI is more about moving on - However wise or unwise a person was to ultimately find themselves in cult.org in the first place boils down to a personal set of issues. Decrying folks (specifically or through inuendo) about their past decisions (whether it be from a different Nichiren buddhist sect, Zorasterism, Christianity, Muslim, Cargo Cult or Atheist perspective) is essentially cut from the same cloth which was my point.

Wakatta1

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Tibbs
I must have stumbled onto the wrong forum. I thought we were here to take about the SGI. Not to make catty remarks about "atheists" and their "dogmas".

Tibbs, it may be somewhat of a rabbit trail (which is OK), but the discussion of atheism was in the context of the potential impact of harshly criticizing SGI and chanting upon current SGI members who read this board but are considering leaving. It's been a good discussion.

Rather than handslap, why not just post whatever you want to say about SGI and get us back on track?

It seems that many people stay in cults because they like the restraint and pressure to conform that it provides. It's a ready made social network and existence which bonds people.

Most of us form bonds with groups and absorb consensus. The difference is that it's primarily organic, though if you look closely there is always a leader involved. Someone who is dominant.

I suppose cults are simply ready made and fully accepting. You don't have to worry about being rejected by the organization itself, in most cases, as long as you follow the behavioral cues and participate as instructed.

People leaving the SGI cult will depend on how the cult is perceived by the public. When the negatives outweigh the benefits, then people will leave in large numbers.

Our responsibility here is to widen the public's understanding, so that we can help shape public opinion about the SGI cult. This is how the cult will be demolished.


Regarding atheism,

I am not an atheist. I am an objectivist.


Personally, I find myself constantly stating, "I don't know" internally when encountering subjects and ideas that I have not completely vetted. Rather than take a position, it's best to stay independent to one's own methods. In this sense, I am not an atheist, as the dictionary meaning is: Someone who does not believe in god; someone who believes that no deities exist.

I don't forge thoughts based in belief, or at least I police my thoughts to stay the course of objectivity. Are there deities? I don't know as I have never encountered one. Do I ascribe to behavior regarding deities, no.

Philosophy itself is a system of behavior.

You can diminish the need for belief and assumption making, though it requires a mind who can accept its own limits and be comfortable with being in the dark on many subjects. This requires hard work to come to an understanding which is sufficient to make an opinion. If there isn't direct objective proof, it's probably best to refrain.


What fascinated me about the SGI cult is how people could instantly transform through the help of cult narratives that transcribe a new set of behaviors to follow.

Atheism is more or less a militant system against Christianity and other deity based religions. Its a direct contrast to western spirituality. In this case I am not an atheist.


Rather than side within a battle system of opponents, I think its better to just stay independent of the mess and forgo the need to wage war on others, instead taking that energy to forge a healthy mind, free from the excesses of emotional disturbance.


Interestingly, the lotus sutra speaks to objectivism. Seeking nothing outside yourself is perhaps an abstract way of stating how one should rely on individual responsibility.

The moderator will correct those that stray too far, otherwise it is an open board. Participate (or not) in a manner that helps you adjust to life after the cult. There are many posts I do not comment about because what they are talking about at that moment doesn't interest me, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't talk about whatever it is they are talking about. This message board is dynamic, and like Chicago weather, just wait a few minutes and things will change. It is all good.

A handslap of my own...calling other people's remarks "catty" is rude and disrespectful.

Upgrayed: "Our responsibility here is to widen the public's understanding, so that we can help shape public opinion about the SGI cult. This is how the cult will be demolished. "

If another post is never added, there is enough ammo on this board to smash any illusions about cult SGI. It is here that the evidence of the org's billions and personal enrichment of the dear leader has been clearly set forth, information I did not know anything about. I'm skeptical about the cult ever being demolished because of the "churn and burn" method of membership, but one can always hope.

If all we do is help one person leave or from entering the SGI cult, we have succeeded. This thread has sure helped me.


As noted before, not likely that it will be demolished, but hopefully enough people get the word out that young people don't get trapped and ensnared by it's clutches.

Many people would argue that classical Buddhism is "atheist"!

But most would agree that this thread is mainly about SGI and the problems with SGI.
Getting into technical and philosophical sidebars about "God" and all that stuff is cleary off-topic, right?

The problem with SGI is not the "Buddhist" part of SGI, if there is anything Buddhist left in SGI.
The problem is SGI, the business, the scam, the money, the cult, the manipulations....

Generic chanting isn't the issue either, its the SGI-chanting that is the problem, and all its baggage.

Upgrayed: "Rather than side within a battle system of opponents, I think its better to just stay independent of the mess and forgo the need to wage war on others, instead taking that energy to forge a healthy mind, free from the excesses of emotional disturbance."

I totally agree. The only thing I am willing to wage war on is hate.