Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Freeheartandmind
()
Date: September 21, 2012 02:43AM
Upgrayed, whether it's thirty years ago or yesterday that you left the org, there is no hierarchy here. Recency doesn't make you more relevant. The more you learn about cults in general, the more you understand how long-lasting the damage, much of which is subconscious, can be.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
rattyboy
()
Date: September 21, 2012 03:13AM
Board Members- thank you for demonstrating diversity in your responses. I'm glad we can do this on this thread. It is generally regarded that emails, texting and online chats what have you , don't easily allow accurate emotional content. If we study logical fallacies, we can say that " It is generally regarded" may be challenged also. Maybe it is just me who has read articles or heard from third hand sources about the "danger of email communication". (and now I fan the flames with that description). Whatever the case may be with what I just described, various voices have made themselves heard on this thread. I use this board to detoxify also and have tried to be funny at times just to allow us all to release, if we want to, this load of baggage. But, also... This is serious to me.
I don't expect that I, alone, can make these distinctions between cult/religion, reason/ magical thinking, right attitude/ wrong attitude toward SGI.
What has helped me recently are the opinions about dealing with or not dealing with SGI members who are still in the fold.
If there is a such thing as Bodhisattva enabler of logical fallacies, then that being has informed the Gakkai suits very well in how to exploit the human mind, and that trickles down to the rank and file members.
I don't expect that I, alone, can make these distinctions between cult/religion, reason/ magical thinking, right attitude/ wrong attitude toward SGI.
What has helped me recently are the opinions about dealing with or not dealing with SGI members who are still in the fold.
If there is a such thing as Bodhisattva enabler of logical fallacies, then that being has informed the Gakkai suits very well in how to exploit the human mind, and that trickles down to the rank and file members.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Freeheartandmind
()
Date: September 21, 2012 03:32AM
"Rattyboy: " I use this board to detoxify also and have tried to be funny at times just to allow us all to release, if we want to, this load of baggage. But, also... This is serious to me. I don't expect that I, alone, can make these distinctions between cult/religion, reason/ magical thinking, right attitude/ wrong attitude toward SGI.
What has helped me recently are the opinions about dealing with or not dealing with SGI members who are still in the fold."
I think the subject is serious to all of us, Rattyboy, or why be here? You can, for yourself, certainly make make whatever distinctions you want.
It's good that talking about dealing or not dealing with current SGI members has helped you, but I was concerned about making this a nice warm place for cult apologists (trolls). We have had them before.
Some of us have NO dealings with current SGI members, except tangentially (a friend I attended elementary school with, her mother just died, and the memorial service was at the SGI Chicago cultural center). Also, when past posters in the process of coming to terms with leaving SGI have expressed difficulty dealing with cult contacts, I have been nothing but supportive, as has everyone on this board. I hope the board doesn't become as humorless as SGI, the humor expressed through the hurt and disappointment of cult involvement by many of the posters here is encouraging. Laughter is good medicine!
What has helped me recently are the opinions about dealing with or not dealing with SGI members who are still in the fold."
I think the subject is serious to all of us, Rattyboy, or why be here? You can, for yourself, certainly make make whatever distinctions you want.
It's good that talking about dealing or not dealing with current SGI members has helped you, but I was concerned about making this a nice warm place for cult apologists (trolls). We have had them before.
Some of us have NO dealings with current SGI members, except tangentially (a friend I attended elementary school with, her mother just died, and the memorial service was at the SGI Chicago cultural center). Also, when past posters in the process of coming to terms with leaving SGI have expressed difficulty dealing with cult contacts, I have been nothing but supportive, as has everyone on this board. I hope the board doesn't become as humorless as SGI, the humor expressed through the hurt and disappointment of cult involvement by many of the posters here is encouraging. Laughter is good medicine!
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Upgrayed
()
Date: September 21, 2012 03:36AM
Good point.
I think that we are all here to focus on the SGI cult and expose the organization for what it is. From time to time, there will be flair ups and disagreements. As I had stated in my last post, I am most likely dancing on the head of a pin and subsequently, I do not hold emotion over the matter.
If I offended anyone I apologize. That's not why I started participating on this thread.
Perhaps I magnified an issue that was of passing irrelevance, which wouldn't surprise me as I am very acute in how I perceive my environment. This is an edge in a normal 3-d world, but when you are dealing with the internet, intent and emotional cues are lost, which means that I end up filling in the gaps and subsequently coming to the conclusions that may not be accurate. This may be the case here. I am not so arrogant as to burn out this thread with tirades or temper tantrums.
This is my first time posting on a forum so I suppose I am going through a crash course before your very eyes.
In the future, I won't take the thread out of its rhythm, but contribute within the boundaries.
I am not even going to touch the right or wrong nature of it all, as I don't see where this leads anywhere but to further conflict, which only ends up muddling the essential points of this thread.
Thanks.
I think that we are all here to focus on the SGI cult and expose the organization for what it is. From time to time, there will be flair ups and disagreements. As I had stated in my last post, I am most likely dancing on the head of a pin and subsequently, I do not hold emotion over the matter.
If I offended anyone I apologize. That's not why I started participating on this thread.
Perhaps I magnified an issue that was of passing irrelevance, which wouldn't surprise me as I am very acute in how I perceive my environment. This is an edge in a normal 3-d world, but when you are dealing with the internet, intent and emotional cues are lost, which means that I end up filling in the gaps and subsequently coming to the conclusions that may not be accurate. This may be the case here. I am not so arrogant as to burn out this thread with tirades or temper tantrums.
This is my first time posting on a forum so I suppose I am going through a crash course before your very eyes.
In the future, I won't take the thread out of its rhythm, but contribute within the boundaries.
I am not even going to touch the right or wrong nature of it all, as I don't see where this leads anywhere but to further conflict, which only ends up muddling the essential points of this thread.
Thanks.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Freeheartandmind
()
Date: September 21, 2012 03:43AM
Upgrayed: "Atheism has been pushed on this thread. How do I know? Because I took up the mantle of defending the practice so that I could be a representation for those who may continue to hold belief in the practice while having suspicions and difficulties remaining in the SGI cult. Those individuals should be free to post their thoughts and experiences in a post-sgi world and be able to utilize this board as "former members" so that they can partake in the healthy role that this thread plays without being ridiculed or reduced for their beliefs."
Please reference specific examples of ridiculing former members who still chant. I have seen the practice criticized, but no individuals ridiculed. There's a big difference between ridiculing the practice, or even criticizing the practice, and ridiculing or criticizing and individual.
And in case it's been overlooked in my previous posts, former SGI members who still chant have always been part of this board and been free to participate. Not sure what the issue is here, but there is a definite miscommunication somewhere.
Forums like this tend to be self-correcting, anybody is feel free to post whatever they want, but at the risk of others not agreeing with them.
Please reference specific examples of ridiculing former members who still chant. I have seen the practice criticized, but no individuals ridiculed. There's a big difference between ridiculing the practice, or even criticizing the practice, and ridiculing or criticizing and individual.
And in case it's been overlooked in my previous posts, former SGI members who still chant have always been part of this board and been free to participate. Not sure what the issue is here, but there is a definite miscommunication somewhere.
Forums like this tend to be self-correcting, anybody is feel free to post whatever they want, but at the risk of others not agreeing with them.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Freeheartandmind
()
Date: September 21, 2012 03:59AM
Upgrayed: I think that we are all here to focus on the SGI cult and expose the organization for what it is..."
Yes! That, and to deal with the damage left by cult indoctrination. Many years after leaving my last discussion meeting, the cult continued to appear regularly in my dreams, and not in a good way. This MB has been invaluable in helping me rid my psyche of cultic programming, as I was a true, true believer, (did the pilgrimage to the head temple, the whole nine yards). It takes more than just time, it takes the support of a great group of people who know what you are going through to fully release the mental bonds. The folks who participate here are indeed a great group of people who really want to help others, and who help themselves in the process.
I am a frequent forum poster, there is a bit of a learning curve involved. Your sincerity is evident. I also think that SGI is a horrible, horribleorganization, or should I say business, a pseudo-Buddhist cult mega billion dollar business.
Yes! That, and to deal with the damage left by cult indoctrination. Many years after leaving my last discussion meeting, the cult continued to appear regularly in my dreams, and not in a good way. This MB has been invaluable in helping me rid my psyche of cultic programming, as I was a true, true believer, (did the pilgrimage to the head temple, the whole nine yards). It takes more than just time, it takes the support of a great group of people who know what you are going through to fully release the mental bonds. The folks who participate here are indeed a great group of people who really want to help others, and who help themselves in the process.
I am a frequent forum poster, there is a bit of a learning curve involved. Your sincerity is evident. I also think that SGI is a horrible, horrible
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Rothaus
()
Date: September 21, 2012 06:23AM
Concerning the latest discussion I believe its important to mention that at least from my point of view anyone who has been in SGI and believes to have practiced Nichiren Buddhism could not be more off track. Nichiren Buddhism has a quite interesting history and compared to any traditional forms of Nichiren Buddhism SGI's views are a VERY distilled interpretation. Not mentioning the whole Mentor and global citizen stuff.
There are quite a good number of people out there who practice Nichiren Buddhism, while still being able to connect to other faiths, including other (Nichiren) Buddhists. The difference is that to them this is nothing unusual and they do not show cult behavior.
Lets also keep in mind that when inside the cult one would hardly admit of being in a cult - for all of us there were some key issues, moments, situations and experiences that made us realise what was going on.
And with all due respect, anyone who soley has practiced with SGI only has no or little knowledge of Nichiren Buddhism and Buddhism as a whole. SGI does NOT even encourage such knowledge. As horrible, disturbing and regretful our experiences may have beem I hope that we won't discriminate other Nichiren Buddhists.
There are quite a good number of people out there who practice Nichiren Buddhism, while still being able to connect to other faiths, including other (Nichiren) Buddhists. The difference is that to them this is nothing unusual and they do not show cult behavior.
Lets also keep in mind that when inside the cult one would hardly admit of being in a cult - for all of us there were some key issues, moments, situations and experiences that made us realise what was going on.
And with all due respect, anyone who soley has practiced with SGI only has no or little knowledge of Nichiren Buddhism and Buddhism as a whole. SGI does NOT even encourage such knowledge. As horrible, disturbing and regretful our experiences may have beem I hope that we won't discriminate other Nichiren Buddhists.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
wakatta1
()
Date: September 21, 2012 09:41AM
All,
I am reminded that in the spirit of a glass being half full or half empty, even the "church of no church" has its own set of problems, and atheism is no more perfect than any other belief system. Principally because it also employs frail humans to fill its ranks.
In my short sixty or so years of life, I have run the gamut of beliefs, idealistically as a child to Christianity, agnosticism as a young teen, cynicism as an older teen, eastern religions through martial arts, buddhism in general and the Fever of NSA through early maturity, back again to cynicism with atheistic tendancies years later after my departure from SGI and divorce, and now in a good place returning to my Christian roots (although still shifting denominations as my heart leads me).
At every stage I received something from that particular period, and I'm a better person for it. I wouldn't be the person I am today without each and every one of the experiences (good and bad) I had. Some small regrets, but overall a general sense of having made it across the whole salad bar and tasted most of the things that looked tasty. I'm sure many others here followed a similar trajectory. The great part of this MB is that for those people who find they are "stuck" inside the Cult.org and can't come to leaving or making a change, our discussions point to the fact that things can be better.
Whether one believes in a particular philosophy (or the lack thereof), I've also found simple mercy seems to span the breadth of of most perspectives with very good efficacy.
Just my .02
Wakatta1
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2012 09:56AM by wakatta1.
I am reminded that in the spirit of a glass being half full or half empty, even the "church of no church" has its own set of problems, and atheism is no more perfect than any other belief system. Principally because it also employs frail humans to fill its ranks.
In my short sixty or so years of life, I have run the gamut of beliefs, idealistically as a child to Christianity, agnosticism as a young teen, cynicism as an older teen, eastern religions through martial arts, buddhism in general and the Fever of NSA through early maturity, back again to cynicism with atheistic tendancies years later after my departure from SGI and divorce, and now in a good place returning to my Christian roots (although still shifting denominations as my heart leads me).
At every stage I received something from that particular period, and I'm a better person for it. I wouldn't be the person I am today without each and every one of the experiences (good and bad) I had. Some small regrets, but overall a general sense of having made it across the whole salad bar and tasted most of the things that looked tasty. I'm sure many others here followed a similar trajectory. The great part of this MB is that for those people who find they are "stuck" inside the Cult.org and can't come to leaving or making a change, our discussions point to the fact that things can be better.
Whether one believes in a particular philosophy (or the lack thereof), I've also found simple mercy seems to span the breadth of of most perspectives with very good efficacy.
Just my .02
Wakatta1
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2012 09:56AM by wakatta1.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Nichijew
()
Date: September 21, 2012 12:25PM
For me it was easy. Like quiting a real bad job, abusive relationship, or destructive addiction in which one has hit rock bottom. I had a straw that broke the camel's back moment [the lies and realizing that SGI wasn't going to change]. When another who is not your kin is lying to you, you leave to maintain your dignity and be true to yourself. Even in the case of a son, daughter, or sibling, sometimes, it is the loving compassionate thing to leave or force them to leave. When you leave a job or relationship for abuse or fire an employee for theft, there is no going back.Quote
Upgrayed
Rattyboy you have a certain point. If we lose focus on the SGI cult due to pushing atheism, we might be losing a large segment of people who might otherwise join into the discussion.
I do like the direction this thread is going.
How do people leave?
You are tangled up in the social dynamics of the cult. You have made friends through the organization and you have spent so much time and investment within the SGI cult that there is a certain security that comes with being apart of a group.
Perhaps because you have focused so much time and energy towards the organization, you have neglected the world beyond the SGI cult and as a result, know that you will be isolated upon leaving. If you have a good network of friends outside of the organization, it will definitely be easier to leave.
Leaving initially may be easier, as you can simply back pedal out of the organization and carve out free time for yourself. Or, perhaps you could generate excuses to weave a timeline in which to have physical time away from the organization , so that you have breathing room to reflect and take distance. OF course the most efficient tactic is to simply leave and drop everything. This will definitely be the most efficient as you can tell them not to contact you.
The difficult part is after you have left or have become absent with an "on the way out" path in which you are walking. You will begin to miss a person or two, or rationalize that a meeting isn't too bad. Get ready for members you were close too, really reaching out to you and showing concern, guilt tripping you to come back. If they are clever, they will simply get you to attend one event, then get ready for the heavy duty love bombing to
drive you back into the organization.
Whatever you do, stay away. If you miss people, realize that your courage will positively impact those other members. When you don't come back, they will be forced to reflect on the SGI and themselves. By holding your ground, you will be helping them and that's what friendship is all about.
Cults mess up your head like a hard drug. You will go through withdrawals. You may long for a hit of Soka. Stay firm and strong and the feelings of longing will pass. Once you get certain distance, your faculties will begin to emerge and then you will begin to see what has happened to your life.
Be on the right side of history. Soka Gakkai is not a nice organization for world peace, but a money/power thirsty cult that is out for a piece of the world, if not all of it entirely.
Some may say that the writing above is the work of the devil king, the machinations of sanshoshima itself. For those that have this thinking, realize the fear indoctrination.
It's no different than the boogie man or the devil with his pitchfork. If you have such fear based impulses, you are clearly demonstrating further proof that the SGI is indeed a cult.
Nichijew
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Nichijew
()
Date: September 21, 2012 12:52PM
Quote
Upgrayed
Anti-Cult,
With all due respect, how do you know how people feel and that they don't seem to feel threatened. Have you done a poll?
I don't want to see people discouraged from participating.
You may wonder " what's wrong with him", well it's simple. I have the fresh cuts from the SGI cult and know how the vulnerable state that people can be in once they leave. The last thing they need is more abuse.
For the sake of argument, there is a fine line between sharing a perspective, such as what you have just done, and using outright insults and attacks regarding someone who may still want to practice.
I personally would easily stand on the line of "chanting is bullshit" as that is my personal opinion. What I don't want to see is this thread crystalize to a point where there is no room for others who may think differently.
This is an issue of strategy, regarding the most efficient means to build an opposition to the SGI cult.
In fact, I have been thinking about starting a website, not to compete with this thread but complement it, so that the facts are even easier to access for those who type in the google words "is sgi a cult".
This thread is getting thousands of hits a week, so there is a potential for a grass roots movement to expose the cult on a truly grand scale.
I am simply offering food for thought and a means to play a role for those who may be reluctant to participate. You aren't attacking me, but if there is one who is turned off of this board, they won't absorb all of the great content that is on this thread.
If I am being too uptight, let me know.... it's entirely possible.
Besides, ultimately, I respect everyone here for their efforts and so this may be me dancing on the head of a pin.
Thanks.
Hi Upgrayed. Nichiren stated, "it would be better to outlaw this one evil than offer up ten thousand prayers." Of course, he was referring to the Pure Land sect but in this day and age, the soka Gakkai is the one evil. Nichiren required and accepted and acknowledged the assistance [to eliminate the one great evil] of not only fellow believers in the Lotus Sutra but unbelievers. I don't think anyone here, not even Hitch and anti-cult is disputing that the Lotus Sutra as practiced and interpreted by Nichiren is a valid religious tradition, but rather that the Lotus Sutra as practiced [or not practiced] and interpreted by Ikeda and the SGi, is NOT a valid religious tradition. As far as many of those who don't or no longer believe in the Lotus Sutra, even Nichiren stated, "it is beyond my ability to save them.". I overlook some of the things stated here and elsewhere about the Namu myoho renge kyo, because it is for the greater good of "outlawing the one evil." Ultimately, everyone has to decide for themselves their relationship to the Buddhist Law [Dharma]. Ultimately too, just look around Upgrayed, no one is getting rid of religion, let alone the religion of the Lotus Sutra, any time soon, regardless of reasonings, hatred, supposed evidence or discovery, enlightenment or delusion.
Nichijew
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2012 01:00PM by Nichijew.
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