Getting people to leave (and remain free) depends entirely on addressing the reasons for them joining in the first place and then focusing on those specific issues that may be causing them cognitive dissonance. Removing them from the toxic environment of influences and deconstructing/releasing, one by one, the trigger traps that got them caught in the cult's net, is necessary. If this isn't done, then they are just more likely to step right into another trap, replacing one old cult for another entirely new one. So, there isn't one formula that works for everyone; it's unique to each individual.

Tradition and family indoctrination (my case), are handled and approached differently than say somebody who is in it based on fear (of death or loss of control in life), guilt or shame (lack of personal responsibility). For those searching for easy answers, comfort, or a social network, they are going to require something to replace what you are trying to take away from them. People who are hardcore gung-ho into it are using it to fill some kind of void in their life. Without the cult, it's going to have to be filled by something. This even applies to the dear leader, Ikeda, too. His narcissism and endless list of bought degrees are masking a deeply insecure, fragile, delusional and pathological psyche. Being a cult-master fulfills his needs, but unfortunately, at the expense of creating many other victims in the process.

No easy answers and not an easy road, especially if you consider how hard it was for yourself to make the journey out. I can only speak for myself, but I had no pre-planned roadmap out, it just happened. It was only able to happen because there was some part inside me that was never satisfied with the artificial brain sugar that they were constantly trying to sell. The dysfunctional and hypocritical mind and power games also fueled my skepticism, which was the tool that allowed me to chip myself out. The only piece of advice that I can truly give, is that the ultimate weapon/key is critical thinking; the cult has absolutely no defense against it whatsoever.

Upgrayed: "If we lose focus on the SGI cult due to pushing atheism, we might be losing a large segment of people who might otherwise join into the discussion."

I have read every post on this MB and see a spectrum of current beliefs, from atheist to SGI-lite. Can't say I've seen anybody "pushing" atheism. While it would be a collateral benefit for people to read this board and perhaps start working their way out of the org, that is not really the key purpose of the thread, which is for FORMER members and their families. This MB helps those adjusting to life without the cult, including dealing with damaging psychological aftereffects. While I am curious about those who stay in, if they want to be exploited and put their critical thinking abilities on a shelf, more power to em'. We do go up rabbit trails every now and then, which is OK, no topic is forbidden, but if anybody starts pushing a specific religious agenda it is likely that the moderator or another board participant will call them out on it. I personally have a low tolerance for people trying to get me to join their religious team.

That said, I appreciate your posts and hope that you continue to add value here.

Rattyboy: "Anyway, I'm wondering if some of those individuals posting about the chanting working for them feel alienated by some of the criticisms even if they agree that these many questionable aspects of SGI should be brought to light."

In my opinion, this MB is not an appropriate place for people to extol the purported benefits of chanting or for people who just want to criticize the org but stay in it. On this board, there are some people who continued to chant after leaving NSA/SGI, some went on to to other faiths, and some just left all of it alone. It could alienate me to read about the alleged benefits of chanting, but, I roll my eyes instead (we briefly went up this rabbit trail a ways upthread). To each his own. If brainwashed cult members want to come back to this MB after they have started to extricate themselves, great, but I don't see it as my responsibility to avoid hurting their feelings.

Hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but I do not want SGI cult apologists to feel comfortable here.

Quote
Freeheartandmind
Rattyboy: "Anyway, I'm wondering if some of those individuals posting about the chanting working for them feel alienated by some of the criticisms even if they agree that these many questionable aspects of SGI should be brought to light."

In my opinion, this MB is not an appropriate place for people to extol the purported benefits of chanting or for people who just want to criticize the org but stay in it. On this board, there are some people who continued to chant after leaving NSA/SGI, some went on to to other faiths, and some just left all of it alone. It could alienate me to read about the alleged benefits of chanting, but, I roll my eyes instead (we briefly went up this rabbit trail a ways upthread). To each his own. If brainwashed cult members want to come back to this MB after they have started to extricate themselves, great, but I don't see it as my responsibility to avoid hurting their feelings.

Hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but I do not want SGI cult apologists to feel comfortable here.

I mostly lurk here since my position is as affected family rather than former member. I've tried NMRK many times but I could never really relate to it, much to my wife's chagrin. That being said (I know, a much overused term), I agree with freeheartandmind. I've read this entire board and have never seen anyone explicitly push atheism. I think most folks come here for support after freeing themselves from SGI, not to engage in a substitute religion or philosophy. Personally, I never had a issue with chanting just had major problems with the organization. So if someone wants to continue chanting without SGI I don't think that's a big deal. But still this is no place for cult apologists (and I haven't seen one here in a while) and I don't think after 480 pages of discussion people are afraid to express their opinions.

Thanks for the lecture.

I am a former member, which is why I am here. Secondly, I am not here for one upmanship games, or who can write the cutest, smartest post.... I am here to expose the SGI and find further understanding regarding my time in the organization, which wasn't 30 years ago, but just yesterday, in terms of recent connection with the monster.

Atheism has been pushed on this thread. How do I know? Because I took up the mantle of defending the practice so that I could be a representation for those who may continue to hold belief in the practice while having suspicions and difficulties remaining in the SGI cult. Those individuals should be free to post their thoughts and experiences in a post-sgi world and be able to utilize this board as "former members" so that they can partake in the healthy role that this thread plays without being ridiculed or reduced for their beliefs.


I am an atheist, so it was hard to take a somewhat faith based stance, as a means to balance out the thread, so that it doesn't derail into anti-religion, which isn't the role that this website plays. I had to run a gauntlet course through sharing my "position" and fundamentally, there should be room here for people who may want to continue to practice after the SGI cult. As you have stated, it's for "former members". If you have doubts, I can cut and paste all of the relevant points that are recorded on this thread in prior posts and securely make my case.


On your second post, it's not appropriate for people to extol the purported beliefs of anything.....whether that be atheism, christianity, or the practice. Beyond, extolling, I do believe that there is room for people to share their post SGI-Cult experiences, whatever that may be... There's a fine line between sharing and shoving an agenda.

It's not inappropriate to talk about Nichiren Buddhism considering that the SGI cult has hijacked this practice for their own interests and gain. Again, "former members" or frankly anyone who was directly or indirectly affected should be able to come here and share with each other their efforts in overcoming the SGI monster and finding a way forward.



" If brainwashed cult members want to come back to this MB after they have started to extricate themselves, great, but I don't see it as my responsibility to avoid hurting their feelings."

Noted.



This thread has helped me immensely, especially through participating. While it may seem that I am just gunning after the SGI cult, it's actually my way to detoxify and help others in the process. None of this is a game, especially those who have recently just left the SGI cult or are even still inside it's walls. Real human beings have been and are presently being affected. Remember, the internet is just one step away from the 3 dimensional space in which we inhabit. I think it's sometimes easy to forget this basic fact.

Those who may feel that "chanting" is "working for them"...
You would have to break that down...what does that mean?

It makes them feel relaxed? That could be from the deep breathing alone. [www.skepdic.com]

It makes their life-goals appear by Magick? More likely that is the Confirmation Bias. [www.skepdic.com]


There have not been many SGI apologists on this thread, but you could probably tell the difference from a SGI shill, and someone who doesn't like SGI but likes chanting, by if they are willing to look at what is actually going on.

But there are people who post here who seem to chant, and don't seem to feel threatened at all by some blunt and honest talk about it.
Generic "chanting" which is done all over the world, is not the same as the SGI-Chanting, which is a form of mind-control designed by Ikeda, with all the stuff around the chanting.
SGI-chanting is the bait on the HOOK, and the people are the fish who bite into the chanting bait, and then get hooked by SGI, and reeled in like a fish.

Anti-Cult,

With all due respect, how do you know how people feel and that they don't seem to feel threatened. Have you done a poll?

I don't want to see people discouraged from participating.

You may wonder " what's wrong with him", well it's simple. I have the fresh cuts from the SGI cult and know how the vulnerable state that people can be in once they leave. The last thing they need is more abuse.

For the sake of argument, there is a fine line between sharing a perspective, such as what you have just done, and using outright insults and attacks regarding someone who may still want to practice.

I personally would easily stand on the line of "chanting is bullshit" as that is my personal opinion. What I don't want to see is this thread crystalize to a point where there is no room for others who may think differently.

This is an issue of strategy, regarding the most efficient means to build an opposition to the SGI cult.

In fact, I have been thinking about starting a website, not to compete with this thread but complement it, so that the facts are even easier to access for those who type in the google words "is sgi a cult".

This thread is getting thousands of hits a week, so there is a potential for a grass roots movement to expose the cult on a truly grand scale.


I am simply offering food for thought and a means to play a role for those who may be reluctant to participate. You aren't attacking me, but if there is one who is turned off of this board, they won't absorb all of the great content that is on this thread.

If I am being too uptight, let me know.... it's entirely possible.

Besides, ultimately, I respect everyone here for their efforts and so this may be me dancing on the head of a pin.

Thanks.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2012 11:56PM by Upgrayed.

Quote
Upgrayed
Thanks for the lecture.

I am a former member, which is why I am here. Secondly, I am not here for one upmanship games, or who can write the cutest, smartest post.... I am here to expose the SGI and find further understanding regarding my time in the organization, which wasn't 30 years ago, but just yesterday, in terms of recent connection with the monster.

Atheism has been pushed on this thread. How do I know? Because I took up the mantle of defending the practice so that I could be a representation for those who may continue to hold belief in the practice while having suspicions and difficulties remaining in the SGI cult. Those individuals should be free to post their thoughts and experiences in a post-sgi world and be able to utilize this board as "former members" so that they can partake in the healthy role that this thread plays without being ridiculed or reduced for their beliefs.


I am an atheist, so it was hard to take a somewhat faith based stance, as a means to balance out the thread, so that it doesn't derail into anti-religion, which isn't the role that this website plays. I had to run a gauntlet course through sharing my "position" and fundamentally, there should be room here for people who may want to continue to practice after the SGI cult. As you have stated, it's for "former members". If you have doubts, I can cut and paste all of the relevant points that are recorded on this thread in prior posts and securely make my case.


On your second post, it's not appropriate for people to extol the purported beliefs of anything.....whether that be atheism, christianity, or the practice. Beyond, extolling, I do believe that there is room for people to share their post SGI-Cult experiences, whatever that may be... There's a fine line between sharing and shoving an agenda.

It's not inappropriate to talk about Nichiren Buddhism considering that the SGI cult has hijacked this practice for their own interests and gain. Again, "former members" or frankly anyone who was directly or indirectly affected should be able to come here and share with each other their efforts in overcoming the SGI monster and finding a way forward.



" If brainwashed cult members want to come back to this MB after they have started to extricate themselves, great, but I don't see it as my responsibility to avoid hurting their feelings."

Noted.



This thread has helped me immensely, especially through participating. While it may seem that I am just gunning after the SGI cult, it's actually my way to detoxify and help others in the process. None of this is a game, especially those who have recently just left the SGI cult or are even still inside it's walls. Real human beings have been and are presently being affected. Remember, the internet is just one step away from the 3 dimensional space in which we inhabit. I think it's sometimes easy to forget this basic fact.

Upgrayed, I am little disturbed by your post. We can disagree without being disagreeable. What's with the snarky "custest and smartest post" dig?

I still don't get why you say this MB has promoted atheism. Can you post even one message doing this? There is enormous religious territory between being a practicing SGI member and atheism. I am neither a practicing SGI member, Buddhist, or atheist. So what? There are many like you on the board who still chant, some independently, some with Nichiren Shu or Nichiren Shoshu, or Kempon Hokke, of even within the Universalist Unitarian church (Google Lisa Jones). Again, so what? Not a problem. We have the common ground in former involvement with the cult, involvement that was damaging on some level to each one of us. My non-belief in chanting is just as OK as your belief in it, for purposes of this board.

Upgrayed, I am not playing games, be it of the one-upmanship type or any other. I EXPRESSED MY THOUGHTS, that's all. I ask you try not to condescend because you do not agree. Please address your comments to the issues and not me as a person since you do not know me.

Hitch: "No easy answers and not an easy road, especially if you consider how hard it was for yourself to make the journey out. I can only speak for myself, but I had no pre-planned roadmap out, it just happened. It was only able to happen because there was some part inside me that was never satisfied with the artificial brain sugar that they were constantly trying to sell. The dysfunctional and hypocritical mind and power games also fueled my skepticism, which was the tool that allowed me to chip myself out. The only piece of advice that I can truly give, is that the ultimate weapon/key is critical thinking; the cult has absolutely no defense against it whatsoever."

+1000