Hi everyone,

I'm stll lurking here. I don't have anything significant to add I just wanted to share an amusing tidbit (amusing to me anyway): There is a Starbuck's being built right next to the Denver Culture Center. Every time I drive by I can't help but think about how much more insane culture center meetings are going to be when everyone gets caffeinated. :)

Really enjoying all the recent discussion. Can't say the same about the videos, they give me cult flashbacks.

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Nichijew
SGI is the original crab bucket... [www.urbandictionary.com]

Nichijew

Oh yeah, they most definitely are. Ironically, it always came from a so-called "leader, too. In a couple of cases, salaried ones. There was one interesting encounter I had later in life as an adult with a salaried gakkai cult drone who I happened across. It was a bizarre brief encounter, with them inadvertently dropping all kinds of Freudian slips out of their mouth, utterly betraying their inner insecurities. I walked away smiling (and laughing to myself), thinking, "man, they've got some problems and are really f**k'ed up in the head." It's amazing how clearly you can see these people for what they are, once you extricate yourself from the miasmic fog that the cult org. is.

******

Re: Currency of the Ego -

You have to have a pretty big "currency of the ego" to even be a gakkai cult, especially salaried, "leader." I forget to mention it before, but back in the post with the cult chorus group, there is a brief moment where you can see Danny Nagashima surveying the chorus members as the music is readied, started and they are just about to sing. He's standing there with his hands on his hips, head thrown back, shit-eating ear to ear grin, exaggeratedly bobbing his head and torso up-n-down and back-n-forth, so smug and full of himself, over-the-top pretending to enjoy the moment, authoritative behavior. I notice these kinds of things in people and, to me, it was just screaming out false arrogance and charlatan. Nagashima is exceptionally bad at the position he has been placed in.

*******

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Freeheartandmind
Some would say (and many members do) that SGI-USA is not a cult, no one is forced to live in a compound, or isolated from their family, starved, or prevented from leaving. But these ARE NOT the only markers of a cult. The most significant cult markers, are in my humble opinion, undue influence (current terminology for mind control, which is just plain old mindfuckery), deception, and human being worship. It is hard to see that you have been unduly influenced while your are still heavily in that state. And while no one may physically prevent you from leaving, all the mindfuckery makes it hard to do so, even impossible for some. I speculate that while we all had to deprogram ourselves, it is easier for those who are naturally more skeptical and resistant to authority, especially the misuse of authority. Also, incessant chanting and activities for cousin rufus have the functional effect of isolating members from family and friends. You can hardly hold a job with all these demands on your time!

They tried to physically block me from leaving on some occasions as a ymd. I never stood for it and pushed back. Verbally, it happened all the time. Their stupid psycho delusional threats never carried any weight with me as I got older.

I think you've summed it up perfectly on this point. One of the biggest things to come to understand in the deprogramming process, is that all of the so-called "authority" within the cult org. is smoke and mirrors. You have to be able to clear the fog and break the mirrors in order to find your way out. It's like a mental fight and you have to be aggressive, psychologically strong, punch your way out, educate and inform yourself, distance yourself physically from the cult influences and slowly walk back to sanity and reality. It's like a breath of fresh air once you make it out. Once out, however, you'll never quite see things the same way, ever again. Especially those people who are still stuck on the inside. You'll understand them better, but, unfortunately, you'll also come to realize that some just may be forever, out of reach and will ultimately have to live and die with their delusions, stories, rituals and beliefs. For those that are in reach, this mb is an invaluable resource; I hope they start the process.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2012 01:01PM by Hitch.

Yes, Hitch. I hope the org members do begin the process. I am not actively talking to former members about SGI issues, though it was on my 'wish list' some pages back to have the opportunity to find some resolve and understanding with them that would also get them seriously questioning SGI methods.

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Freeheartandmind
Upgrayed: "SGI cult deals with currency of the ego."

EXCELLENT! Currency of the ego results in REAL currency for Ikea and company (as Hitch notates: $oka Gakkai).

Some would say (and many members do) that SGI-USA is not a cult, no one is forced to live in a compound, or isolated from their family, starved, or prevented from leaving. But these ARE NOT the only markers of a cult. The most significant cult markers, are in my humble opinion, undue influence (current terminology for mind control, which is just plain old mindfuckery), deception, and human being worship. It is hard to see that you have been unduly influenced while your are still heavily in that state. And while no one may physically prevent you from leaving, all the mindfuckery makes it hard to do so, even impossible for some. I speculate that while we all had to deprogram ourselves, it is easier for those who are naturally more skeptical and resistant to authority, especially the misuse of authority. Also, incessant chanting and activities for cousin rufus have the functional effect of isolating members from family and friends. You can hardly hold a job with all these demands on your time!

It boggles my mind that current members have no problem with the billions of dollars that SGI has accumulated while they sign up to clean toilets and answer phones for free. On the cult scale, SGI may not be the most extreme out there, but does that matter? It is still definitely a cult and IS one of the most extreme in terms of accumulated assets. I sincerely hope that anyone reading here who is still active in this poor excuse for a religious organization opens their eyes, if but a little bit. Maybe Tina Turner will see the light!

From what I've heard, I don't think Tina is involved with the SGI like she was. As for other celebs--Patrick Duffy, Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter, etc.--I don't think they are leaving anytime soon. Their devotion appears absolute. I read Belinda Carlisle of Go-Go's fame's autobiography last year and was floored that she became an SGI-er herself. Wonder if that will stick for her.

The human spiritual vein is a funny thing. A number of great ladies where I live are committed born-again Christians and they are always trying to "shakabuku" me to accept the Spirit. Not feeling it, but I have to say that the conviction they feel is heartfelt and confident. Once again, it strikes me as they speak that the human desire for happiness and certainty is universal....The SGI tells people the same thing--You want happiness, right? Enlightenment?

The members I am still in contact with (not a lot) swear by the SGI and feel that they are truly happy and on the road to more happiness. They have conviction in that.

But, you know, I no longer feel that it is worth it to sacrifice the freedom of being able to speak your mind, good or bad, and haven't for a long time. That's a huge sacrifice you make with the SGI. My Christian friends revere Christ as their Saviour. I do not wish to revere Daisaku Ikeda as mine.

Amazing to read how Sensei tried to trademark NMRK.

There have been so many great posts of late and such great spot-on insight. Great peeps here!

I would like to get all the hardcore longtime members in a room together, confront them with evidence of Ikea's and SGI's riches, and ask them to explain what this has to with cousin rufus. Why the org misrepresents itself. Why none of it bothers them. I am genuinely interested in the answers, because I find it incredulous that people can be true believers despite mountains of evidence of corruption and deception.

Just like with Christians, many SGI members are "social Buddhists" who enjoy the relationships and social context of their involvement in the org. The practice is OK, they enjoy the status they may have (especially very long time "leaders"), and inertia has set in big-time. Look up, and decades have passed, decades of unquestioning acceptance of pronouncements from the cultmaster. At one time, we all thought the practice was beneficial, until we we came to realize how confirmation bias works. Until whatever social benefits we received did not outweigh the discomfort we felt about other aspects of the org. Until we could no longer ignore the building cognitive dissonance. So we freed ourselves. And it feels so good to be in control of your own mind.

I just don't get the need to proselytize, whether Christian or Buddhist or anything else. Everyone is free to choose their own spiritual path, and to each his own.

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rattyboy
Yes, Hitch. I hope the org members do begin the process. I am not actively talking to former members about SGI issues, though it was on my 'wish list' some pages back to have the opportunity to find some resolve and understanding with them that would also get them seriously questioning SGI methods.

I treat gakkai cult members the same way I do any other whacked out religious zealots (mormons, etc.), I just don't bother to engage them, unless they come to me, seeking me out. In which case, I plainly and clearly tell them my position on whatever it is they are going on about. This usually shuts them up, ends the conversation and they leave. Hopefully, respectfully agreeing to disagree, if possible. With some people (fortunately a minority), they aren't satisfied with that and you just have to firmly stand your ground, poke holes in their delusions to get them to back off and, if need be, pushing back, redirecting them away from you, with a friendly wave goodbye.

For those with the door to reality a bit ajar, I just keep dropping things between the door so that it doesn't shut completely and the rest has got to be up to themselves to push it all the way open and start the walk out. They have to be receptive and there are usually subtle signs, even from the beginning, that they fall into this category of individual. The hardcore type are usually beyond reach.

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Shavoy
As for other celebs--Patrick Duffy, Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter, etc.--I don't think they are leaving anytime soon. Their devotion appears absolute.

The three cult stooges you mention above, all participated in a hardcore deeply brainwashed performance in front of the dear leader in Japan, celebrating his 200th (bought) honorary academic degree. Since Duffy is kind of washed up in the celebrity world these days, he barely gets a mention, but there are photos of him standing stiffly at attention, playing his part for cousin rufus. You can tell from the photos that he is a heavy kool-aid imbiber, because it's obvious that he is REALLY feeling the ICHINEN.

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Shavoy
The human spiritual vein is a funny thing. A number of great ladies where I live are committed born-again Christians and they are always trying to "shakabuku" me to accept the Spirit. Not feeling it, but I have to say that the conviction they feel is heartfelt and confident. Once again, it strikes me as they speak that the human desire for happiness and certainty is universal....The SGI tells people the same thing--You want happiness, right? Enlightenment?

The members I am still in contact with (not a lot) swear by the SGI and feel that they are truly happy and on the road to more happiness. They have conviction in that.

If ignorance is truly bliss, then they must indeed be very happy.

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Freeheartandmind
Just like with Christians, many SGI members are "social Buddhists" who enjoy the relationships and social context of their involvement in the org. The practice is OK, they enjoy the status they may have (especially very long time "leaders"), and inertia has set in big-time. Look up, and decades have passed, decades of unquestioning acceptance of pronouncements from the cultmaster. At one time, we all thought the practice was beneficial, until we we came to realize how confirmation bias works. Until whatever social benefits we received did not outweigh the discomfort we felt about other aspects of the org. Until we could no longer ignore the building cognitive dissonance. So we freed ourselves. And it feels so good to be in control of your own mind.

I know for a fact that the social aspect has kept many a lifelong hardcore (especially pioneer) member in the gakkai cult. It's all they know and they wouldn't be able to function without it. Longtime top "leaders" receive sustenance from the status, thrive on it, live for it and completely eat that stuff up. Once they are on the payroll long enough, with no other job skills, it is literally their livelihood and they are locked in, along with their family (the only thing on their mind is comfortable survival, not rocking the boat and remaining in the good graces of their cult puppet masters). Of course, they don't see themselves as being in a cult, but they'll readily admit to you that they are special and have a chosen "mission" in life.

Whatever floats their boat is fine by me. It would be even better if they kept their toys and fairy tales to themselves and not try to share or force them on others - that's where all the problems come in.

I think the main way I used to whip up the Ichinen in myself, that seeming summoning of the high life condition in the moment, was thinking, "I'm doing all this crazy $h!t, I sure as hell better be getting myself to another plane, besides, people are watching and they'll leave me alone and just smile when they look my way. Ah, peace and conformity. Mindless richness of shutting down and giving in. Like the robotic big happy world in the "It's a small world after all" ride at the other big destination in Florida. Maybe, just maybe it could work. Look at all the people here. Something salient has to emerge from the muddy pond. (Ewww. Sorry. That might almost be shakabuku).
Anyway, I'm wondering if some of those individuals posting about the chanting working for them feel alienated by some of the criticisms even if they agree that these many questionable aspects of SGI should be brought to light.

Rattyboy you have a certain point. If we lose focus on the SGI cult due to pushing atheism, we might be losing a large segment of people who might otherwise join into the discussion.


I do like the direction this thread is going.

How do people leave?


You are tangled up in the social dynamics of the cult. You have made friends through the organization and you have spent so much time and investment within the SGI cult that there is a certain security that comes with being apart of a group.
Perhaps because you have focused so much time and energy towards the organization, you have neglected the world beyond the SGI cult and as a result, know that you will be isolated upon leaving. If you have a good network of friends outside of the organization, it will definitely be easier to leave.

Leaving initially may be easier, as you can simply back pedal out of the organization and carve out free time for yourself. Or, perhaps you could generate excuses to weave a timeline in which to have physical time away from the organization , so that you have breathing room to reflect and take distance. OF course the most efficient tactic is to simply leave and drop everything. This will definitely be the most efficient as you can tell them not to contact you.

The difficult part is after you have left or have become absent with an "on the way out" path in which you are walking. You will begin to miss a person or two, or rationalize that a meeting isn't too bad. Get ready for members you were close too, really reaching out to you and showing concern, guilt tripping you to come back. If they are clever, they will simply get you to attend one event, then get ready for the heavy duty love bombing to
drive you back into the organization.

Whatever you do, stay away. If you miss people, realize that your courage will positively impact those other members. When you don't come back, they will be forced to reflect on the SGI and themselves. By holding your ground, you will be helping them and that's what friendship is all about.

Cults mess up your head like a hard drug. You will go through withdrawals. You may long for a hit of Soka. Stay firm and strong and the feelings of longing will pass. Once you get certain distance, your faculties will begin to emerge and then you will begin to see what has happened to your life.

Be on the right side of history. Soka Gakkai is not a nice organization for world peace, but a money/power thirsty cult that is out for a piece of the world, if not all of it entirely.


Some may say that the writing above is the work of the devil king, the machinations of sanshoshima itself. For those that have this thinking, realize the fear indoctrination.

It's no different than the boogie man or the devil with his pitchfork. If you have such fear based impulses, you are clearly demonstrating further proof that the SGI is indeed a cult.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2012 01:21PM by Upgrayed.

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Freeheartandmind
I would like to get all the hardcore longtime members in a room together, confront them with evidence of Ikea's and SGI's riches, and ask them to explain what this has to with cousin rufus. Why the org misrepresents itself. Why none of it bothers them. I am genuinely interested in the answers, because I find it incredulous that people can be true believers despite mountains of evidence of corruption and deception.

"Hardcore" gakkai cult members are generally beyond reach because their "beliefs" are not based on evidence, but (as mentioned before) based on a need to believe. If you were to really confront such a group, they would first form a united front against you, then a few of them would eventually step forward to reveal the true kamikazes amongst them. These few kamikazes would alternatively try to outdo and compete with each other in shutting you down, with the remainder of the group content to play the role of back-up "support." It would just be a mini-version of how the cult org. itself functions.

Have you ever noticed how a good number of the salaried "leaders" are in actuality fished from some of the dregs of society? I could specifically name several, but shall refrain. Or put more charitably, people of very low to zero social status in the real world. Through the cult org., they gain illusionary status and become dependent on it (both literally and figuratively, i.e., financially and in their mind). They obtain all of their status inside the cult org. in primarily two ways:

1) By virtue of shakubuku'ing tons of other people (and this goes to your question about why there is proselytization in the first place), either one by one or "leading" groups of others to achieve the same results en masse. Recruiting new meat is the core of how the cult org. expands and survives. Hence, those that do it best are rewarded with dominance positions on the inside.

2) Loyalty demonstration. Being an official salaried "leader" in the gakkai cult org. requires you to ultimately submit to the dominance of those above you, all the way to the dear leader at the very top. Even the highest leaders are secretly obsessed with competitive loyalty demonstrations amongst themselves. Herein lies the clue as to why the kamikazes appear to outperform and out maneuver each other, like a bunch of piranha fighting for the largest chunks, even against each other if need be. This is also like hitting two birds with one stone, because it gives the individual doing it the opportunity to take the stage, demonstrate, for all to see, their willingness to take hits for the dear leader / cult org. AND a "golden" opportunity to (in their brainwashed mind) stand up against perceived evil, "change poison into medicine" and breakthrough their "karma" by changing the negative into the positive (you know, the ol' simplistic "winter never fails to turn to spring" crap that we've all heard).

So, they need to believe, in order to either retain their position in the cult org. or climb up the ladder to a higher position (or both), whatever the case may be. They need to believe to fulfill their cognitive requirements, justify their lifelong vested efforts in service to the dear leader, and in the case of longtime leaders on the payroll, maintain their salary.

I mentioned earlier about the the "authority" in the cult org. being all smoke and mirrors. Leadership positions are nothing more than illusionary awarded authority positions, because they ultimately serve only one leader who is always above *you* - The Dear Leader. This is the one nonnegotiable mandatory prerequisite to any salaried leadership position inside the cult org.. The biggest irony of all is that even Taisaku's "authority" is illusionary - a self-serving, circular, con-job manipulating everyone, even an entire religion, to serve only him.