Bullshyte about sums it up.

Obvious divorce from logic. So how is it that attending a SGI meeting or convention alone is suppose to increase your karma?

If that's the case then one could easily make the same case for increasing karma by doing the following:

-Attending a Wet T-Shirt Contest
-Attending a weed party
-Calling in work and playing hooky on Friday
-Going to the strip club
-Sleeping in and watching Pauly Shore movies.
-Skipping the SGI meeting that you didn't want to attend in the first place.

While these may sound contrived and over the top this would be the best example to demonstrate to any kool-aid sipper to why SGI doesn't practice real Buddhist. They are dumb enough to believe and they want to make you believe that your entire existence hinges on your participation in SGI activities.

Only if I knew then what I know now. If I could ask these simple questions to my local YMD leader his head would head explode.

Quote
tsukimoto

Quote
Nichijew
Then, if you complain that you couldn't make the rent or the mortgage [after the hard sell], they admonish you for failing to say no.

Nichijew

This made me think of Von, a former YMD who posted on page 54 of this thread. He was a young man, struggling to make ends meet in Los Angeles, and his leaders urged him to spend his last dollar on going to a big NSA convention. They told him that he needed to have faith and just spend everything he had on this convention -- that he'd break through his bad financial karma if he made a good cause like this.

He did so -- and ended up homeless when he returned from the convention. Of course, the leaders who'd urged him to spend his rent money on plane fare to the convention -- had no concern and no help for him.

---------------------beginning of quote---------------------------------------------------------------------

From page 54 of this thread:

[forum.culteducation.com]

So this was sometime in the [end of summer '87?] when I returned to LA after a weekend in Seattle with the NSA YMD for this big convention/celebration/promo display that we did. And common sense would tell you, that after giving almost every dime I had to NSA for the trip ... with the rent due ... and all of my roommates (timing, Murphys Law) simultaneously moving out from our house ...

.. that I would have nothing when I arrived back. And of course thats exactly what happened.

Well ... I got back to LA and [sic] had no money for the rent. No money to find a new place to live. And with all of my family on the other side of the country, and not long term friends in LA that would take me in ....
I had no place to go.

At 23 years old: all of a sudden I was homeless in LA.

And SGI was just about all I had. How did they respond?

NSA turned thier backs on me.

Members of my District knew what was going on ... but down to a person as I recall they had nothing of value for me to add other than "This is your karma, chant more" and "Do your human revolution" and other such platitudes.
------------------------------------end of quote------------------------------------------------------------------------

How could you tell if you won a debate with an SGI member?

When he or she reaffirms to you that they are chanting for your happiness.

Quote
KR
How could you tell if you won a debate with an SGI member?

When he or she reaffirms to you that they are chanting for your happiness.

Hehe. Or when they begin to engage in bull-baiting and ad hominim, asking you if you are high, or drinking, hateful, resentful, racist....

Nichijew

Love the straight talk on this thread, because this stupid cult deserves it.

How many sgi cult members does it take to change a flickering light bulb?

Six. One to chant that it will get changed, a second to throw zaimu at it in hopes that somebody else will change it for them, a third to go get guidance on how to change it, because they can't think for themselves, a fourth to go out and shakubuku other future capable light bulb changers, a fifth to raise their own family members to be light bulb changers when they grow up, and finally, a sixth person to create an art's festival and have others sing and dance for it to be changed. In the end, it never actually gets changed and just eventually burns out. Then, there they all sit in darkness and superstition.

(A bit harsh on the fifth point, but I think I'm entitled to included it, having grown up in the cult. They never got me, but, unfortunately, they did get a couple of others I know.)

********

Unfortunately, in some instances they will not merely be satisfied to chant for your happiness.

Seriously, I've personally experienced it, and have also seen it happen to a couple of others: in extreme situations, Japanese WD will also physically strike you and walk away huffing and puffing in anger. So much for them doing their human revolution on that day, huh.

The sgi cult's bastardized philosophy and manipulation of their members is like a cancer of the mind. Your average "Jane & Joe" members are the ones getting mind-f***** by every "leader" up the ladder - who is in turn doing the same thing to every person below them - with the dear phantom leader at the very top.

A perfect example of it being a malignant mind tumour (along the same lines of KR's joke) -

The cult's organized official campaigns for the removal (i.e., death) of Nikken. Anybody who states that this hasn't or isn't happening, is a liar, plain and simple.

Quote
KR
Obvious divorce from logic. So how is it that attending a SGI meeting or convention alone is suppose to increase your karma?

If that's the case then one could easily make the same case for increasing karma by doing the following:

-Attending a Wet T-Shirt Contest
-Attending a weed party
-Calling in work and playing hooky on Friday
-Going to the strip club
-Sleeping in and watching Pauly Shore movies.
-Skipping the SGI meeting that you didn't want to attend in the first place.

While these may sound contrived and over the top this would be the best example to demonstrate to any kool-aid sipper to why SGI doesn't practice real Buddhist. They are dumb enough to believe and they want to make you believe that your entire existence hinges on your participation in SGI activities.

Only if I knew then what I know now. If I could ask these simple questions to my local YMD leader his head would head explode.

Quote
tsukimoto

Quote
Nichijew
Then, if you complain that you couldn't make the rent or the mortgage [after the hard sell], they admonish you for failing to say no.

Nichijew

This made me think of Von, a former YMD who posted on page 54 of this thread. He was a young man, struggling to make ends meet in Los Angeles, and his leaders urged him to spend his last dollar on going to a big NSA convention. They told him that he needed to have faith and just spend everything he had on this convention -- that he'd break through his bad financial karma if he made a good cause like this.

He did so -- and ended up homeless when he returned from the convention. Of course, the leaders who'd urged him to spend his rent money on plane fare to the convention -- had no concern and no help for him.

---------------------beginning of quote---------------------------------------------------------------------

From page 54 of this thread:

[forum.culteducation.com]

So this was sometime in the [end of summer '87?] when I returned to LA after a weekend in Seattle with the NSA YMD for this big convention/celebration/promo display that we did. And common sense would tell you, that after giving almost every dime I had to NSA for the trip ... with the rent due ... and all of my roommates (timing, Murphys Law) simultaneously moving out from our house ...

.. that I would have nothing when I arrived back. And of course thats exactly what happened.

Well ... I got back to LA and [sic] had no money for the rent. No money to find a new place to live. And with all of my family on the other side of the country, and not long term friends in LA that would take me in ....
I had no place to go.

At 23 years old: all of a sudden I was homeless in LA.

And SGI was just about all I had. How did they respond?

NSA turned thier backs on me.

Members of my District knew what was going on ... but down to a person as I recall they had nothing of value for me to add other than "This is your karma, chant more" and "Do your human revolution" and other such platitudes.
------------------------------------end of quote------------------------------------------------------------------------

'They are dumb enough to believe and they want to make you believe that your entire existence hinges on participation in SGI activities.'

Yes, indeedie. This quote sums up a lot for me. Because they all want to be happy. I remember one concept of this whole thing, that enlightenment for an SGI Buddhist means being having deep happiness inside, no matter what circumstances you find yourself in. So, all these leaders are chasing the ultimate human desire: Happiness. And they will do whatever it takes, because, by darn, it is assured!!! All these activities. Shakabuku. Donations. That permanent happiness is right at the end of this SGI rainbow!

So, I ask again. Are any of them truly happy? Happy right now? Or is it an addiction to the Kool-Aid? And no, one's entire existence does not hinge on participation in SGI activities. Good grief, no!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2012 06:56AM by Shavoy.

Quote
Nichijew

Quote
chooselife

Quote
backnforth
Chooselife:

What's next?

Maybe you can start by making a list of all the ways you would spend your time if you weren't attending the many meetings and home visits I assume you were attending.

I would just try to do a lot of relaxing things for now; things you enjoy.

Will you give up chanting too? Saying goodbye to Buddhism or just SGI? They are 2 different things - do you agree?

Good luck. You will do fine and your world will open up. True friends will stay in touch and base the friendship on other things in common.

backnforth:

thank you so much! im not sure about chanting, or religion in general. i left my gohonzon up, but i tore down all the other stuff on the altar: daimoku campaign card, photos of prez ikeda and wife, my join certificate, all gone. all thats left is my butsudan and gohonzon, and all the other altar-type stuff. i cant even open it like i used to, with such ease. ill keep it up until i decide once and for all that chanting is for me. i like to chant, it clears my head, but i dont think it is the only way to meditate/concentrate/gain enlightenment.

ive been reading an objective book about buddhism, just to see if its really something i want in my life, and to learn more about shakyamuni. i like the faith alot, but i feel like i will be practicing alone alot. not that im committing to anything theravada, but needless to say, mahayana is kind of not on my radar either for obvious reasons. im just going to do as much research as i can, and make an INFORMED decision (aka- google search any group the first DAY i hear about it and not 2 years in)

i really could not have done this without all of you talking so openly about your experiences and making me realize how NOT crazy i am. someday soon i will really let it all out, but for now, i think im going to start learning how to have control over my life again.

thank you.

Dear Chooselife:

When I decided to leave the Soka Gakkai, I too removed everything related to them and their parent sect. My Butsudan had a metal crane symbol embedded in the middle and towards the top, on the outside. I wedged it off and it left a small scar on the Butsudan. When the Kempon Hokke priest came from Japan to visit, the first thing he said to me as he sat down to chant, "anger is no good. Please fix your Butsudan." It took me several years to fix the Butsudan and my anger.

Nichijew

The first thing many brainwashed gakkai cult members did was pry off their bustudan crane symbols and replace them with the golden gakkai symbol. Same thing went for the two golden crane stands that stood in front of the gohonzon inside. Some people had to replace their entire bustsugu sets because it was all emblazoned with the crane symbols (candle, incense holders, water cup, etc.). Never could figure out how some of the members with the older gohonzons rationalized the embedded crane symbols in the background paper of their own gohonzons though.

Any and everything with the Nichiren Shoshu crane symbols was slowly and gradually replaced with either the SGI globe-mark or golden SGI symbol - gongyo books, gongyo and gosho book covers, after the split. A lot of the anger was officially sanctioned within the gakkai cult.

As for photos of the grouper faced pudgemeister, they were as normal for me as pictures of my own family. When friends used to come over to my house to play, I took to telling them that he was a friend that my parents looked up to. Looking back, how bizarre it all appears now!

Can anyone who was a "YOUTH!!" member from back in the (early) 80's jog my memory about an official gakkai cult event that I only retain foggy memories about and have absolutely no idea in the world what it was actually all about?

The ymd (not sure if ywd were involved, perhaps in a different area) were all bussed up to some mountain retreat where we underwent some kind of intense outdoor training camp. We had to sleep outside under the trees and stars (no tent!), while the senior "leaders" (Williams/Sadanga, Fujioka, Kikumura, et al.) all got to sleep in some nice log house (we all complained about it while the rocks were sticking us in our backs and bugs/mosquitos crawled all over us attacking us all night). I also remember they hauled in half a cow (actually sliced in half) on a big stick and turned it over a huge campfire to feed us for dinner (we all probably got parasites from that trip).

It was a filthy, miserable trip, that turned me off to camping forever. I also remember some "guidance" about how fortunate we all were at the close of the trip; so said the spick-and-span clean, bright eyed and busy tailed "leaders" trying to convince all of us greasy, grimy, sleepless and smelly ymd at the time.

Then, and now, I was scratching my head as to what any of it had to do with "Buddhism."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2012 07:22AM by Hitch.

Quote
KR
Only if I knew then what I know now. If I could ask these simple questions to my local YMD leader his head would head explode.

This is, of course, assuming that they can even begin to craft an independent thought or opinion of their very own.

Quote
KR
They are dumb enough to believe and they want to make you believe that your entire existence hinges on your participation in SGI activities.

For a reflection as to how dumb some of the so-called "leaders" are, take a look at this "special" pullout section from the WT used to encourage members to do May zaimu [www.sgi-usa.org].

"Every light bulb, door and window of our centers was paid from the contributions of our sincere members . . . . . " And take a look at Ethan Gelbaum's lame experience (which I've also heard a dozen times in person) about how his practice magically enabled him to wake up in the mornings and keep his jobs (this coming from somebody who has spent just about his entire life as a paid goon for the cult organization - living off the $$$$ that ultimately comes from the membership).

Quote
Shavoy
'They are dumb enough to believe and they want to make you believe that your entire existence hinges on participation in SGI activities.'

Yes, indeedie. This quote sums up a lot for me. Because they all want to be happy. I remember one concept of this whole thing, that enlightenment for an SGI Buddhist means being having deep happiness inside, no matter what circumstances you find yourself in. So, all these leaders are chasing the ultimate human desire: Happiness. And they will do whatever it takes, because, by darn, it is assured!!! All these activities. Shakabuku. Donations. That permanent happiness is right at the end of this SGI rainbow!

So, I ask again. Are any of them truly happy? Happy right now? Or is it an addiction to the Kool-Aid? And no, one's entire existence does not hinge on participation in SGI activities. Good grief, no!

Classic SGI manipulation. The tragedy is that they do it right under the general members noses. Happiness in no way equates to enlightenment. Buddhist enlightenment is wisdom through the alleviation from suffering (attachment) happiness is simply an emotion. They rebrand it as "eternal happiness" - still no where close to Buddhist interpretation of enlightenment. Happiness is a state of mind and will always be a state of mind. Job promotion = happiness, day at the beach = happiness, winning a huge Powerball jackpot = happiness, but that too wears off. It is only human nature that we become bored regardless of what we have attained - Henceforth attachment.

SGI concept of "eternal happiness" is riddled with flaws and - as Anticult touched on in a previous posting - this is done by design. Eternal happiness will soon flame out and as long as SGI gets as much from you as they can. To be a member of the SGI means that as much as you refuse to believe - you are expendable.