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Hitch
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Tibbs
I'm almost starting to wonder if anyone ever actually wants to be a leader in the SGI. I suppose there must be some people who do.

Yes, there are some that do. They usually *really* believe that they are doing something earth shattering and monumental (I never did). If it's a salaried "leader", some live their entire lives and die in a satisfying delusion.

That's something that I find difficult to wrap my head around; living and devoting your life to being a cult leader and shackling other people into servitude with your efforts. What a horrible way to make a living. They of course don't see themselves this way, so they don't have a problem with it.

Like I said, a satisfying delusion. Whenever I think about how bad it was to grow up in this pseudo-buddhist cult, I invariably remind myself that it could have been much, much worse. They were never able to take over my entire life and use me to do the same thing to others.

Who wants to be in a cult in the first place? Who would want to be a cult leader? No one in their right mind! SGcult standard procedure is to make leadership appointments for members without asking first, in order to "hook" them into their cult trap. The new member suddenly finds themselves appointed to be a "group chief" or some such, without having ever asked for a position. When they comply to the extreme expectations to behave and perform in a highly defined manner by the cult, they are further pressured to begin receiving leadership "training". This Cult Indoctrination fosters the desire to please leaders and to forever "do more" for KR and Cult Daddy, while providing little treats to the animals for performing their tricks correctly. Slowly, the member is conditioned into the properly controlled mindset of delusion until they are ready to be easily trained and fast-tracked into becoming a heartless, robotic, self-centered jerkoff senior leader. Becoming a "ridiculously empowered elite" can be very tempting to an immature young man or woman. After enough years of proving to HQ what a souless shell of a person you can be for free, you might get a shot at a paid position. I know this is true, because I was naive enough to let it happened to me. That is until I opened my eyes, threw off the shackles of my oppressors, and refused to be a slave no more!

Spartacus

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Spartacus
Who wants to be in a cult in the first place? Who would want to be a cult leader? No one in their right mind! SGcult standard procedure is to make leadership appointments for members without asking first, in order to "hook" them into their cult trap. The new member suddenly finds themselves appointed to be a "group chief" or some such, without having ever asked for a position. When they comply to the extreme expectations to behave and perform in a highly defined manner by the cult, they are further pressured to begin receiving leadership "training". This Cult Indoctrination fosters the desire to please leaders and to forever "do more" for KR and Cult Daddy, while providing little treats to the animals for performing their tricks correctly. Slowly, the member is conditioned into the properly controlled mindset of delusion until they are ready to be easily trained and fast-tracked into becoming a heartless, robotic, self-centered jerkoff senior leader. Becoming a "ridiculously empowered elite" can be very tempting to an immature young man or woman. After enough years of proving to HQ what a souless shell of a person you can be for free, you might get a shot at a paid position. I know this is true, because I was naive enough to let it happened to me. That is until I opened my eyes, threw off the shackles of my oppressors, and refused to be a slave no more!

Spartacus

Well, of course the key point is, "No one in their right mind!" If they were in their right mind they wouldn't be there in the first place. The same applies to all of us when we were in it.

I touched on this a bit in an earlier post:

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Hitch

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dragon14
I've got to think that people who have become employees of the SGI started out as the same kinds of "believers" as the rest of us. What happens: do they get "turned" when offered a salary and possibly another piece of the action? Is it made *that* clear that there's a scam going on that they can profit from? Did anyone who is on the payroll start as a crook from the get-go?

In the case that I know, they prey on the most innocent, naive, sincere, vulnerable and most "obeying" believers. The more you do their bidding, the more you are gradually reeled in. Eventually, the delusion of power and reward (money, "leader" fringe benefits, paid trips domestically and International - Japan, members fawning over you, and the role of being the big cheese or big fish in a small pond) is a vicious cycle. Eventually, your delusion grows and feeds on itself. It's just a different level of manipulation that has become all consuming. It's also a good ol' boys club and you have to learn and deal with the inevitable machinations that accompany. I suspect it is also a "need to know" system, where you are only privy to things that you need to know to carry out your assigned functions/goals. Screw it up, misstep, or piss on the wrong person and you'll find yourself getting sh** assignments or sitting in a corner windowless room for the rest of your cult career (look at Williams). Be a good, non-thinking robot sheep and do everything that is expected of you well, and be rewarded with more of the same deceptively satisfying manipulation that keeps feeding your delusion - keeping you and the cult organization both happy.

In my case, I didn't ask, wasn't looking for, and I definitely didn't want the regional YD position that I was literally pushed into. In fact, this is probably one of the biggest reasons I gave it back, because I don't like to be forced into things and manipulated (which was exactly how I viewed it even then).

As mentioned, in the case that I have personal firsthand knowledge about, the individual is a salaried leader and they did indeed want the position. I can add two additional (critical) points to this as well:

1. The person went ape-sh** crazy in their "practice" after a pivotal life event happened to them. That was the trigger and I suspect that is probably the case with many others to some degree.

2. In talking to this person, I can tell you that there just isn't something "normal" about their mind and the look in their eyes. Their psyche has been altered, and I don't mean in a good way either. Their adopted arrogance conceals an inner insecurity and they have bought into a deep delusion that allows them to cope in their own life.

In short, they are indeed "a heartless, robotic, self-centered jerkoff senior leader." They of course don't see themselves this way, but they are.

There are posters coming and going from this thread all the time who don't think the gakkai is a "cult." Nobody in a cult is ever going to admit that that is what it is - and stay in.

There are indeed people who want to be senior salaried leaders, because I know one who did, and is. I saw the whole process from beginning to present day and I think it is very sad and unfortunate. They of course feel exactly the opposite - very happy and fortunate.

As you stated, they are genuinely "not in their right mind."

Yes, Hitch. It is a cult! I'm just trying to ignore my wish to discuss this with some of the SGI members who seem to have a sense of intelligence, humour, and political awareness in their daily lives. Luckily I haven't seen any SGIers in a while.
I guess my basic questions would be: "Why do you think this group is alright when you: (have strong opinions about corrupt corporations, are critical of the power of advertising and marketers, have basic knowledge of totalitarian structures, have read Orwell and Huxley) - whichever of these or others, and "haven't you experieced: (countless examples on this message board)"? "Do you really believe what they tell you about: (blah blah blah)" ?

Basically, I know none of this should be addressed with the cult member especially if one wants to keep themselves from being pulled in to some degree, or get accused of having a "karma attack". Remember the hushed tones when discussing people of "Learning and Realization"? It is sort of a high life condition but creating greater difficulty in finding enlightenment, or what have you. Forgive me for not wanting to recall the specifics.
Please remind me to not pursue dialogue with these folks. There's been some good posts lately so I think it has been reminding me of things I wish I had said to them years ago. I'm already thinking of good ways to ignore the itch to make sense with those still involved.

Many SGI Kool-AID sippers can't chant.

Even in SGI, I preferred to chant alone because there would always be that annoying SGI member who explicitly let it be known that there chanting is above all others and kill the entire rhythm. They will either:

1. Shout over other members.
2. Move at faster pace where it sounds like "Namoyo-Ricky-Ko"
3. Purposely accent certain sounds where it isn't warranted like people who elongate the vowel in "Nam" and it sounds like "Naaaaaam Myoho Renge Kyo"
4. Purposely change the pitch of there voice unbeknownst to them they sound like Bobcat Goldthwait from the Police Academy movies.

It's guaranteed that at every SGI meeting one would encounter the all so intrusive "So, what are you chanting for?" like an answer was owed to them.

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Freeheartandmind
SGBye made a comment about listening to music being more relaxing than chanting. It got me to thinking that chanting, especially group chanting, is relaxing because it has a certain musicality to it. So, people may like how it feels without realizing that the same feeling could be obtained in different ways. The cult keeps you so busy there is no time to enjoy much of anything not cult related.

Actually it's the other way around: It's (what) can KR "do more" for the Ikeda Industrial Complex. I still have the "7 Effective Habits for Ikeda Kool-AID Sipping" leadership books in the shoebox with the gohonzon and all of the other SGI memorabilia they can have back.

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Spartacus
Who wants to be in a cult in the first place? Who would want to be a cult leader? No one in their right mind! SGcult standard procedure is to make leadership appointments for members without asking first, in order to "hook" them into their cult trap. The new member suddenly finds themselves appointed to be a "group chief" or some such, without having ever asked for a position. When they comply to the extreme expectations to behave and perform in a highly defined manner by the cult, they are further pressured to begin receiving leadership "training". This Cult Indoctrination fosters the desire to please leaders and to forever "do more" for KR and Cult Daddy, while providing little treats to the animals for performing their tricks correctly. Slowly, the member is conditioned into the properly controlled mindset of delusion until they are ready to be easily trained and fast-tracked into becoming a heartless, robotic, self-centered jerkoff senior leader. Becoming a "ridiculously empowered elite" can be very tempting to an immature young man or woman. After enough years of proving to HQ what a souless shell of a person you can be for free, you might get a shot at a paid position. I know this is true, because I was naive enough to let it happened to me. That is until I opened my eyes, threw off the shackles of my oppressors, and refused to be a slave no more!

Spartacus

BTW Spartacus, love your blog. We both have something in common for we both write our experiences about SGI. However I spare no expense in lampooning Sensei. However it remains unfinished therefore unpublished.

Rattyboy, I definitely don't pursue dialogue with the current cult members, unless I just happen to run into them, in which case they always come to me (not vice versa). It's a waste of time, though. Depending on my mood (when they catch me), I might blow them off or engage them a bit. If it's the latter, I like to leave them blinking their eyes and scratching their head wondering "what just happened here?!" Even the salaried leader, they have no control over me whatsoever; in fact, it's very easy to turn turn their power plays back onto them. Also, to be honest, a part of me finds it grotesquely fascinating, like "I wonder what they are going to try and come up with next."

KR, one thing I always found hilarious about the chanting nazi police monitors was that if you ever really listened to their recitation of the sutra (gongyo), they themselves were f***ing it up so badly, too, mutilating the pronunciation, and weren't even aware of it. Just some more of the blind hypocrisy that is everywhere in the cult.

SGI is a joke and should be ridiculed in any opportune moment.

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SGBye
I constantly butted heads with leaders towards the end of my time in the SGI regarding the numbers game. Leaders loved to say “The fastest way to do human revolution is to do shakubuku!,” as though they discovered some scientific equation to overcoming obstacles. It was a dirty and manipulative way to convince people with serious problems that their struggles could be easily solved if they just brought someone else into the organization.

Also, I once did street shakubuku when I was around 16 with another guy who was 17. It was just the two of us walking up to people. Looking back on it now, I can’t believe the two of us, who weren’t even of adult age yet, were sent out to approach random strangers on the street. Crazy.

On the latest episode of KR: The Shakabuku Chronicles:

While on his way to an SGI meeting, KR runs into Greg who he hasn't seen in months. Feeling guilty because all of his free time is being spend on cult activities, he scams Greg (assumed name) into attending a SGI meeting with him.

KR: Hey Greg, long time no see. How's life been treating you?

Greg: Looking for a job...again

KR: What happened to that cooking job at that swanky club?

Greg: Business is slow, they laid me off.

KR: Damn, that sucks. Hey, I'm on my way to this girls house. They gonna be a lot people there. We just gonna chill have a few drinks. Smoke some weed.

Greg: I'd love too but you know, gotta stay on the grind. Still looking.

KR: C'mon man, it's 6 o'clock. There's a lot of single ladies there you know.

Greg: Alright, fine.

KR: Sweet, BTW these ladies are into Buddhism, but they're mad cool.

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Hitch
Rattyboy, I definitely don't pursue dialogue with the current cult members, unless I just happen to run into them, in which case they always come to me (not vice versa). It's a waste of time, though. Depending on my mood (when they catch me), I might blow them off or engage them a bit. If it's the latter, I like to leave them blinking their eyes and scratching their head wondering "what just happened here?!" Even the salaried leader, they have no control over me whatsoever; in fact, it's very easy to turn turn their power plays back onto them. Also, to be honest, a part of me finds it grotesquely fascinating, like "I wonder what they are going to try and come up with next."

KR, one thing I always found hilarious about the chanting nazi police monitors was that if you ever really listened to their recitation of the sutra (gongyo), they themselves were f***ing it up so badly, too, mutilating the pronunciation, and weren't even aware of it. Just some more of the blind hypocrisy that is everywhere in the cult.

"Grotesquely fascinating" Yes. That's a great expression. I can relate to that.
Not being very assertive most of the time I would look for those "grotesquely fascinating" moments with any scammer, SGI or otherwise, just to be absolutely sure I had something I could catch them on - not to immediately call them wrong or dismiss the premise, but to have a discussion - or one of their fabled "dialogues' which I am convinced don't actually exist in any conventional sense.
I think I will avoid seeking out some of these old friends in the practice who seemed somewhat "real' at times, but if we do converse about SGI someday, it will be fascinating to see what my natural response is, if I can be honest and assertive, and what responses I get.

What is the cult's obsession with the dear phantom leader's fan dance?

[www.youtube.com]

A spontaneous ad-libbed silly display made into some kind of "official" impersonation "dance", with mandatory Japanese "salaryman" clothing. Talk about grotesquely fascinating.

CULT!!

NY's version of "da Masta's Dance":

[www.youtube.com] (Note the person standing upside down on their head at ~2:05 min. mark.)

This stuff is creepsville.