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SGBye
After I left the SGI I continued to do Gongyo and chant as a form of meditation for a brief time. However, I couldn’t disassociate the chanting from the organization and all the negative connotations that went with that. So I stopped doing it and that eventually led to me returning my Gohonzon (which I’ll write about in another post). Plus, quite honestly, I can’t really say that chanting ever did much of anything for me. Some people claim they “felt something” upon hearing NMRK for the first time. Having grown up in the practice, chanting was never anything special or exotic to me. It was just something I did without giving it any thought, like breathing. That’s really the only explanation I have for being able to give it up so effortlessly, even after doing it for 30+ years. But everyone’s different, and I found that listening to music had a much more calming and relaxing effect on me than chanting ever did. An added bonus is that it doesn’t conjure up visions of rollerskating human pyramids! (not usually anyway)

Fantastic post. That was my "experience", too. It was just something I did because it was expected of me and it was an entirely "normal" everyday ritual, just like a christian says prayers before dinner or going to bed. YD activities were the equivalent of my Sunday go to "church" routine. As I got older and began to actually think about what I was doing and for myself, that all slowly (thank goodness) changed. I never got a "high" from it either (Higher Than The Sky or othwerwise). It was pretty much a burdensome, tiresome ritual for me. Now, it's primitive nonsense to my eyes.

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SGBye

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Hitch
PS, Couldn't resist adding this Cousin Rufus Workout [www.youtube.com]. This is actually the kind of really stupid crap that most often took place, especially at youth meetings.

I love the look on the face of that young guy at 0:29. It screams “What the hell are these people doing?” That look was plastered on my face quite often at many meetings.

HAHA! You and me, both!! :-) Whenever meetings started off with crap like that, it was usually a sign for me that I wasn't going to be able to make it all the way through and I'd eventually get up and leave. I honestly, just couldn't take it sometimes.

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Findingmywaytoday
I do get calls from my sponsor, and we talk about other things that are interesting. I don't mind if she wants to stay friends, but I will get annoyed if her reason for calling me is to chant. She does say at the end of our phonecall that she wants to chant with me. I feel very strongly that I don't want to do that. I am so happy about being in counseling. I am making strides in ways that wouldn't have been possible with the SGI.

Staying friends with a "sponsor", IMO, is equivalent to letting the fox back into the henhouse. Sooner or later, . . . . . . .

(If you really want to remain so-called "friends", you just have to be prepared to always be on your guard and ready to slap the fox back sometimes.)

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Findingmywaytoday
Also, after I started chanting, I got into a car accident. No one was hurt, but it made me terrified to drive since it was handled by the insurance companies in a terrible way. It made me phobic to drive. Perhaps someone might argue that this would be my karma without Gohonzon, but I have to tell you that my life was better before Gohonzon.

When this happens, the cult says it's because your bad karma has to come out before the good (the ol' dirty garden hose analogy). When nothing happens, it's because it takes time. When some perceived good happens, voilà (!), it's your magic reward.

They can always spin it to suit their goals.

Imagine if the above happened after you quit or left the cult. Major mind-f*** time. I'm sure some people become locked into the cult this way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2012 06:00AM by Hitch.

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dragon14
I've got to think that people who have become employees of the SGI started out as the same kinds of "believers" as the rest of us. What happens: do they get "turned" when offered a salary and possibly another piece of the action? Is it made *that* clear that there's a scam going on that they can profit from? Did anyone who is on the payroll start as a crook from the get-go?

In the case that I know, they prey on the most innocent, naive, sincere, vulnerable and most "obeying" believers. The more you do their bidding, the more you are gradually reeled in. Eventually, the delusion of power and reward (money, "leader" fringe benefits, paid trips domestically and International - Japan, members fawning over you, and the role of being the big cheese or big fish in a small pond) is a vicious cycle. Eventually, your delusion grows and feeds on itself. It's just a different level of manipulation that has become all consuming. It's also a good ol' boys club and you have to learn and deal with the inevitable machinations that accompany. I suspect it is also a "need to know" system, where you are only privy to things that you need to know to carry out your assigned functions/goals. Screw it up, misstep, or piss on the wrong person and you'll find yourself getting sh** assignments or sitting in a corner windowless room for the rest of your cult career (look at Williams). Be a good, non-thinking robot sheep and do everything that is expected of you well, and be rewarded with more of the same deceptively satisfying manipulation that keeps feeding your delusion - keeping you and the cult organization both happy.

SGBye made a comment about listening to music being more relaxing than chanting. It got me to thinking that chanting, especially group chanting, is relaxing because it has a certain musicality to it. So, people may like how it feels without realizing that the same feeling could be obtained in different ways. The cult keeps you so busy there is no time to enjoy much of anything not cult related.

Spartacus, I so enjoyed your latest Texas Buddhist chapter, thank you and keep it coming.

Spartacus, that tozan picture of you is precious! I don ' t think I kept any pictures. Did you know any of the other people in the photo? We were so young, and well-intentioned, but foolish. As the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The cult tried to make me a YD leader at one point. I'll never ever forget the faces and eyes of the other youth when I had to get up and give the customary "encouragement" after the important meeting/campaign/event. They were so sincere, naive, trusting, eager and innocent. I felt so slimy after giving the standard post-event speech (with the mandatory coached bullet points included). I just kept thinking to myself, "what a crock." They want you to inflate the importance of everything way out of proportion to reality: as if the meeting you just had (which was mediocre) was such a significant milestone that someday in the future it will be engraved and commemorated with golden plaque, marker and perhaps become a national kosen-rufu holiday. I just couldn't do it, so I quickly told them I was out. I felt I was manipulated into saying things in order to manufacture a false image about activities/the practice, and that they were ultimately asking me to do the same thing to others. Essentially, mold their minds to embrace some kind of delusion/fantasy.

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Tibbs
I'm almost starting to wonder if anyone ever actually wants to be a leader in the SGI. I suppose there must be some people who do.

Yes, there are some that do. They usually *really* believe that they are doing something earth shattering and monumental (I never did). If it's a salaried "leader", some live their entire lives and die in a satisfying delusion.

That's something that I find difficult to wrap my head around; living and devoting your life to being a cult leader and shackling other people into servitude with your efforts. What a horrible way to make a living. They of course don't see themselves this way, so they don't have a problem with it.

Like I said, a satisfying delusion. Whenever I think about how bad it was to grow up in this pseudo-buddhist cult, I invariably remind myself that it could have been much, much worse. They were never able to take over my entire life and use me to do the same thing to others.

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Freeheartandmind
Spartacus, I so enjoyed your latest Texas Buddhist chapter, thank you and keep it coming.

Thank you very much Freeheartandmind, glad you enjoyed the last chapter, "Appearances Are Everything". In the upcoming chapter, "Man of La Mancha" we shall revisit the 1973 Shohondo Convention.

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Freeheartandmind
Spartacus, that tozan picture of you is precious! I don ' t think I kept any pictures. Did you know any of the other people in the photo? We were so young, and well-intentioned, but foolish. As the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Actually I found that tozan picture on the internet [www.freefallarchive.com]! Most of my pictures and memorabilia from those times were lost to a rental storage company many years ago while I was working overseas.

I did know two of the others in the photo. Margaret Ingleking from San Antonio was the young lady with long blondish hair (looking down) about 6 or 8 feet in front of me (oh yeah, I was the one with the dark curly hair parted on the side). The other young woman I knew was Trish Mayo from Dallas. She had long dark hair (looking slightly to the side) and was walking on my immediate left.

I do remember having this picture taken. It was not sponteneous as it looks - it was a STAGED photo! Notice nobody is waving at or looking directly at the camera. We were actually looking away intentionally. A photographer directed the group of people in this shot to go back up the steps and come back down again several times until he could finally get a "natural" picture. Naturally, we all put on our happiest faces for the camera.

"Well-intentioned but foolish", and "the road to hell" sure sums it up! AH, the folly of youth!

Spartacus

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Findingmywaytoday
I am wondering if you think it is okay to call my district up, and tell them that I am not going to get the subscriptions, and I am not contributing to the May Contribution, etc? I would also like to tell them that I am chanting on my own, and in my own way. Because I may not have as much experience as you do, and you might know more the trends of SGI leaders, would you think it is good for me to call them, or should I just not contact them?

Just wanna put my two cents in on this. Don't confuse chanting with being trapped in a very rich and organized cult. Being in a cult is like a drug addiction, while getting out of and staying away from a cult is akin to addiction rehabilition. As a former addict, you put yourself at greater risk of relapse by being around those who are still using. Never forget, users want to get you hooked again, then they will feel better about themselves as you return to being just as helpless and pitiful as they themselves are.

When one is a weakened condition or state, talking to a cult member is like playing with fire - it's just too easy to get burned. Don't expose yourself to unnecessary risks. Do you think it would be wise to go hang out with a heavy drug user while you are trying to overcome your own addiction? Would you really want to take the advise of a narcissistic user? Or would you put more trust and effort in following in the sensible advise of a councilor or loved one?

I think you may have mentioned on another post that you still talk to your sponsor on the phone, and how they end by saying they want to chant with you. Any true "friend" with a shread of respect for you should be able to carry on a conversation without constantly resorting to bringing up the subject of chanting/practicing. Bringing chanting up at the end of your conversations indicates the real motivation and reason for starting the conversation. Please ask your friend to refrain from any mention of chanting or activities during any future conversations and see if they can abide by your request. If they can not, then perhaps you should consider this person's (not so) hidden agenda and discontinue your so-called friendship. Healthy friendships don't support ulterior motives.

Canceling cult subscriptions and refusing to pay homage (contributions) is a good step. But don't waste your time and energy letting someone attempt to break you down and reverse your personal decisions and feelings. I commend you for standing your ground, but caution you to stay vigilent in defending yourself from the onslaughts of guilt and confusion that will continue to be thrown at you if you allow it. You won't have to deal with smelling the rotting garbage if you stay away from the garbage patch.

Spartacus