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SGBye
Every once in a while someone at a meeting will bring up the fact that Ikeda gets slammed on a regular basis in the Japanese press. In the 80's I remember my young naive mind thinking, "But why would they attack such a nice and good man?" The members' explanation for this was always the same: "They're just jealous of Sensei and want to tear him down!" Since the Soka Gakkai is heavily involved in politics, I'm sure some of the negative press may be due to bias and partisanship. But where there's smoke there's fire, and when it involves Ikeda, there seems to be an awful lot of smoke. If chanting's so powerful, why can't the members chant that particularly annoying problem away? It's gotta be easier than trying to chant something like cancer away, I would think.

I've asked "why?" whenever I've encountered negative reactions, it always has to do with the intolerance, fanaticism and whacked out behavior of the general membership. It has always boiled down to their fundamentalism and persistence in pushing and annoying people. They have always had either a story to tell or knew somebody else who does. Another theme I've heard is that the crazy chanting behavior also doesn't win them any positive impressions; rather, they don't come right out and say it, but the implication is clear --> it's cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

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SGBye
Whenever someone that the members are chanting for dies, they roll out the standard comforting lines: "He/she will be reborn into much better circumstances," "He/she completed their mission," "He/she surely gained enlightenment and/or changed their karma," etc. If someone with an illness lives longer than expected, they love to point out that chanting prolonged their life. However, those folks were most often extremely ill and therefore experienced a lot of pain and suffering. Why you would want to prolong that is beyond me.

Reading this mb always jars something loose from cobwebs of my memory from my time in. The above is one of them. I had forgotten these kinds of lines, but, yes, I heard the same thing all the time.

I've always wondered, HOW exactly it is that they come to KNOW this information? Is there a reborn or completed mission newsletter or certificate that is given out so that they can make "official" announcements?

Like I said earlier, it's all fairy tales for children and a surrogate pacifier/thumb to suck for comfort.

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Shavoy
SGI did not seem to know how to handle that. There was a memorial article in the WT, but you could sense from the tone that they just wanted to do "the right thing", put it out there, and then mention it no more.

So, where was the actual proof with Mr. Aoyama's experience? That is not what people generally want to hear, when they try to believe 100%. SGI cannot handle Bad Things, in my estimation. The sad truths of life do not generate shakabuku revenues for the SGI.

Whenever they are exposed to obvious irrefutable reverse negative confirmation bias (something that just cannot be framed as a "benefit"), they go (uncharacteristically) quiet.

On that note, I'm with Anti-Cult regarding Ikeda being on ice. Something is definitely up. The official grapevine word has it that the dear leader is strangely absent simply because he is getting older and wants to retire, leaving it all up to others. Also, lack of actual "appearances" and travels for the 3-11 disaster and the recent one-year anniversary, IMO, are very, very telling. The only thing coming out (and I hope somebody will correct me if I'm wrong) has been ghost statements and supposed cherry blossom nature photos that the dear leader snapped to "encourage" members.

Something is definitely rotten in the state of Denmark.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 05:27AM by Hitch.

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Freeheartandmind
OK, I'm going to pull the trigger and read these, I'm a sucker for books anyway. I'll let you know what I think when I finish.

Looking forward to your impressions. (I didn't want to say too much and be a spoiler for those who haven't yet read and may someday pick up.)

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Shavoy

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SGBye
I've asked leaders before about long-time members dying in tragic circumstances. The answer I always got was "None of us really know what their practice was like." In other words, these leaders were implying that maybe these members weren't really the strong members they appeared to be and therefore didn't receive the "protection" that a truly strong member would've received. I would think that that assertion would be downright insulting to their practicing loved ones. So it's never the religion's fault; there's never even a hint of "Hmmm, maybe chanting isn't all it's cracked up to be." You're right, Shavoy: If you cheat death, hurray for chanting! If you die, you probably weren't doing it right.


I've mentioned this previously, but look at the deaths of Pascual and Angela Olivera, the flamenco dancers that the SGI loved to trot out. Angela died suddenly only 3 years after Pascual succumed to a long-fought battle with cancer. Her death was just swept under the rug because, I believe, their story just ended too tragically. I knew many hardcore SGI-ers who had no idea that Angela passed away - and these people live, breathe, eat and sleep SGI.

You can add me to the list, SGBye...I did not know that Ms. Olivera had passed on, until your post just now. She also died suddenly, as well? From what I read from their experiences, both Pascual and Angela poured their hearts and souls into the SGI. It seemed very sincere. Yes, they were trotted out a lot, in front of The Man many times, of course.

How could they explain this, you are right, SGBye. It could never be the religion's fault--oh, no!! As for the answer you got all the time: "None of us really know what their practice was like." Oh, please! PLEASE!

Good lord, they cannot give certainty! And they want so badly to appear that way. So badly.

Yes, they did. And look at the "thanks" and gratitude that they get as a result. This cult literally uses you for everything it can take from you, then just as easily, quickly discards your shell and skin into the garbage bin when its all done.

Whenever your lifelong practice and devotion do not yield positive results, it's either because your karma was too heavy to "cut" in this lifetime (better luck in the next one) OR your faith wasn't quite in the right place or up to snuff.

Their reaction is a bit like, "Oops! Oh well. Let's look for another member/leader whose life is a better example to use for exploitation purposes."

Shavoy,
Neither did I know that Angela passed! That's par for the course!

Anticult sgibye,
just posted & can't find it! Again, forgive if redundant....Seems to me the VERY SAME MIND CONTROL TRICKS R BEING USED REGARDING IKEDA'S WHEREABOUTS! I HAVE BEEN OBSERVING THIS FOR TWO YEARS. IT ACTUALLY MADE ME QUIT PRACTICING!

Weve been talking here about brainwashing techniques! I brought this topic up when I joined this list! I thought then someone here would see it & FINALLY we r talking about it! HOW MUCH MORE BLATANT COULD THEY POSSIBLY BE? THEY HAVE BEEN HIDING THE TRUTH FOR TWO YEARS. AS I SAID BEFORE, IKEDA HASN'T BEEN IN ANY PIC I CAN FIND WITHOUT PHOTOSHOPPING IT SINCE SPRING OF 2010! I don't have a need to b right here, I'm just relieved u r seeing it. The last real pic i saw was in Spring of 2010!

The articles r ALL REPEATS. THE STUDY material is not being written by Ikeda. All this time they have bwen lying to the members. I think he had a stroke personally.

BRAINWASHED WITH PROOF RIGHT IN FRONT OF MEMBERS FACES!

I have been carrying this around for a ling time. Just to hear two
people acknowledge something is up is so validating! WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS WHY WHY WHY AREN'T MEMBERS SAYING ANYTHING? JUST THIS ONE THING HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BRING DOWN THE HOUSE!

THANKS!

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Shavoy
You can add me to the list, SGBye...I did not know that Ms. Olivera had passed on, until your post just now.

Whoa, wasn’t expecting that but I guess it proved a point I was making (Angela apparently died of leukemia). Pascual and Angela traveled the world, tirelessly performing for and contributing to the SGI. So if they couldn’t change their karma and avoid dying prematurely from illness, what chance do the rest of the members have?

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jlynneda63
Anticult sgibye,
just posted & can't find it! Again, forgive if redundant....Seems to me the VERY SAME MIND CONTROL TRICKS R BEING USED REGARDING IKEDA'S WHEREABOUTS! I HAVE BEEN OBSERVING THIS FOR TWO YEARS. IT ACTUALLY MADE ME QUIT PRACTICING!

Weve been talking here about brainwashing techniques! I brought this topic up when I joined this list! I thought then someone here would see it & FINALLY we r talking about it! HOW MUCH MORE BLATANT COULD THEY POSSIBLY BE? THEY HAVE BEEN HIDING THE TRUTH FOR TWO YEARS. AS I SAID BEFORE, IKEDA HASN'T BEEN IN ANY PIC I CAN FIND WITHOUT PHOTOSHOPPING IT SINCE SPRING OF 2010! I don't have a need to b right here, I'm just relieved u r seeing it. The last real pic i saw was in Spring of 2010!

The articles r ALL REPEATS. THE STUDY material is not being written by Ikeda. All this time they have bwen lying to the members. I think he had a stroke personally.

BRAINWASHED WITH PROOF RIGHT IN FRONT OF MEMBERS FACES!

I have been carrying this around for a ling time. Just to hear two
people acknowledge something is up is so validating! WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS WHY WHY WHY AREN'T MEMBERS SAYING ANYTHING? JUST THIS ONE THING HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BRING DOWN THE HOUSE!

THANKS!

Lying and manipulation are par for the course with the soka gakkai cult. They are fighting a losing battle, sooner or later the truth eventually comes out. Ikeda can never appear to be less than victorious. If true, they are in the process of attempting to rewrite history and give it a fairy tale happy ending.

If Ikeda has been mia for a couple years, he is probably having health problems, and someone else is calling the shots now at SGI.


As far as the SGI-Chanting...it really is so absurd.
If one takes themselves out of the situation, and looks at it from the outside...
How can chanting some syllables do all of these things?

In fact "SGI chanting" for a problem, is going to make it worse. Because instead of problem solving, and then coming up with a strategy to solve the problem, and then taking action on it, nothing is going to happen.
Its a recipe for disaster.
If your roof has a hole in it, and you do SGI-chanting to fix it, then water is going to leak in, and destroy your house.
So in that sense, SGI-chanting is very damaging.
Because instead of doing what needs to be done, some SGI people chant.

Its the same with New Thought, and various other techniques. They sound harmless, but in fact are harmfull.

If you are having chest pains, or dizziness, then SGI-chanting could kill you. Because if you are having a heart-attack or stroke, you need to get the Emerg right away.

The idea that SGI-chanting is going to solve their life's problems is completely absurd.

Frankly, Ikeda and friends know this, and that is great for them, as when SGI chanting does NOT work, they tell people to chant harder, and give SGI more money.. So SGI always wins.

An SGI member told me that more than 2500 SGI members died in the Tohoku region in Japan during the earthquake and tsunami. About 27,000 people died in total. There are about ten million SGI members in Japan which has a population of 127,000,000 people. SGI members actually died at a slightly higher rate than those of the general population. Nichiren writes about a similar situation:

"One would therefore expect to find more victims of the epidemic among Nichiren’s followers than among the believers of Nembutsu, or priests of the True Word, Zen, and Precepts schools. For some reason, however, there is less affliction and death among Nichiren’s followers. It is indeed mysterious. Is this because we are few in number, or because our faith is strong?'

Regardless of whether or not this report [and principle] of Nichiren is true, the SGI members [and other Nichiren Buddhists] believe it to be true. Let's for a moment accept that it is true. Therefore, this is further proof that SGI members are not Nichiren's followers by virtue of this principle. I maintain that they are prone to arrogant licentiousness, animality, greed, and even misfortune, precisely because they are not followers of Nichiren.

Nichijew

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Nichijew
An SGI member told me that more than 2500 SGI members died in the Tohoku region in Japan during the earthquake and tsunami. About 27,000 people died in total. There are about ten million SGI members in Japan which has a population of 127,000,000 people. SGI members actually died at a slightly higher rate than those of the general population. Nichiren writes about a similar situation:

"One would therefore expect to find more victims of the epidemic among Nichiren’s followers than among the believers of Nembutsu, or priests of the True Word, Zen, and Precepts schools. For some reason, however, there is less affliction and death among Nichiren’s followers. It is indeed mysterious. Is this because we are few in number, or because our faith is strong?'

Regardless of whether or not this report [and principle] of Nichiren is true, the SGI members [and other Nichiren Buddhists] believe it to be true. Let's for a moment accept that it is true. Therefore, this is further proof that SGI members are not Nichiren's followers by virtue of this principle. I maintain that they are prone to arrogant licentiousness, animality, greed, and even misfortune, precisely because they are not followers of Nichiren.

Nichijew

I don't buy into any of this, but I know that many members do. For those that do, like the priesthood in general, if they were so inclined to follow the gakkai's horrible example and manipulate confirmation bias for their own gain, they could have a field day with all of the recent disasters befalling Japan (Hanshin & Tohoku quakes, Fukushima, tsunamis, etc.) and especially (if true) Ikeda's health problems. The gakkai is fully aware of this and have gone uncharacteristically silent about it all. I think it is because they have also gone into full damage control mode.