jlynneda63, I don't know if we can explain further. I am reminded of how two Women's division members quickly split off to both sides of a table to keep me from exiting an auditorium. (Other details of this event posted in this forum, back a ways). In other situations, I found that my honest expressions of disapproval gave me more evidence of the crumminess of this collective, beyond individual personilities, when I saw ugly reactions from the smallest out of line comment on my part.

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jlynneda63
This discourse reminded me of the very last straw before I left. After all I went thru to finish the quilt.sqare in time my vice wd dl called to say that the "leaders" decided how nice it wpuld b if we could all sew beads cases for all the members for christmas. I had this thought "is she doing this on purpose"? I was in the middle of the above activity for the man i told u about. I said NO I DO NOT SEW" made my hair stand on end...sewing warehouse? Really? So everyone WILL participate. After i said no she called back to ask what day i was available! The last thing...the day before my exit I got a call that the leaders needed to come here for a leaxers meeting. This is after we were appointed "group leaders"...OH I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT SINCE WE WERE APPTED & THEY TOOK EVERY MEMBER WE WERE HELPING FROM US & gave us a list of people who do not even recieve phone calls! I WAS REALLY PO'D. They marched in here & said they had EXTRA WORK to divide up. What new nite did we want to help sign up for. I said uh NONE! I WAS TOLD IT WASN'T OPTIONAL! THAT WAS IT FOR ME!

Thank u sooo much everyone...I don't know how Ive blocked all this recent crap from memory! It was only a few mos. ago! I just gave them the benifit of the doubt over & over again! I was in a constant stste of anxiety the entire time! Is that brainwashing?

CAN U EXPLAIN FURTHER? I FEEL SICK...IT REALLY WAS MEAN HATEFULL & MOST OF ALL, INTENTIONAL!!

It's definitely intentional and it happened to me all the time. I would (reluctantly) volunteer to do something just once, then the next thing you know your name is officially down to do it regularly from then on out. Nobody asked and there was certainly NEVER even a simple "THANK YOU" or expression of appreciation - all they ever wanted was more, & more, & more. What began as a volunteered one time effort suddenly became expected and forced, along with all the guilt and manipulation that comes with it if you don't act happy and appreciative of it all. The attitude quickly changed from me doing a favor for them, to them doing a favor for me by letting me participate.

Just like you jlynneda, I clearly and plainly told them flat out, "NO", yet I would still be contacted when I didn't show up or didn't do it, as if I had never said anything at all to begin with. Long story, short, . . . . it finally took a little yelling and a mini-confrontation to force the message thru.

In my experience, it's all intentional and if you give them the benefit of the doubt and are nice about it all, they will simply play you like a fiddle.

On that note:

Rattyboy, the Japanese WD are the "masters" of the forced manipulation. I have seen it and encountered it, probably hundreds of times. Again, it's part of the culture (Japanese & the gakkai). It's very easy to handle, you simply just throw it back at them and do the same (i.e., ignore and act like you don't see or hear, just like them, what they want you do and just do what you want to anyway. The shock on their faces afterwards is absolutely priceless. HAHA! You see, they can dish it out, but ultimately cannot take it themselves.)

My time "in", always good for a good laugh!

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Nichijew
The reality is that you believed and trusted these men and women who are blind to truth. Ignorance of the Law is not an excuse. Even if all the leaders meant well, their religion and philosophy has no power to awaken them to the harm they are doing to others.

Nichijew, are you implying that you have special access to the "truth", while others don't, or am I just misreading your words? If so, could you please elaborate.


My point was, if one is traveling 70 miles per hour in a 45 mile per hour zone and is stopped by the police, he is going to get a ticket even if he claims that he was ignorant it was a 45 mph zone. Ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the Law. Acting in a foolish manner or disrespecting others, even out of ignorance too, is not an excuse. As far as special access to the truth, that is a matter of how strenuously one strives for truth, don't you think? Certainly, I and those with whom I associate treat eachother as adults and with the utmost respect. Like Mitt Romney, I won't apologize for my talents. The difference between myself and Romney is that my talents are, for the most part, wholesome.

Nichijew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2012 09:48AM by Nichijew.

Nichijew
I actually believe I would not be "out" had I not found what spoke to me at exactly the right time in a text written hundreds of yrs ago. When I read the words my perspective shifted enough that I knew clearly I WASN'T PRACTICING A RELIGION THAT WAS TRUTHFUL. So you shared more of your truth which I deeply appreciate. In fact I prefer being told the truth even if it is uncomfortable! I don't ever want to have any inclination to b swayed by SGI propaganda again. I have to get it this time & I will keep asking until I do! Thanks for bearing with me! I am old but at the same time I never see the bad in people. I always give people the benifit of the doubt. I also know I need to change myself. I thought that was a reason for practicing...fundamental darkness! Turns out I was surrounded by it. Now that one subject probably is a tool used to control the masses. I guess that may b another instance of ways that can cause injury to self esteem.

I think they r worse than I thought. I have to look at it without blinders on! Thanks everyone!

"I am old..."

Lynne, you are NOT old. We only become "old" when we stop growing, changing, and learning. You are doing all of these things! So don't be so hard on yourself. You are so right, this org is much worse than I though and has been for decades. It it not you and was not you, it is the org that is fundamentally dark!

"Few come to realize compassion and wisdom."

Well stated, Nichijew. It is because we experienced no compassion that we were (are?) damaged from this org. Any "religious" or spiritual practice that does not result in the growth of compassion and wisdom is hardly worth bothering with, you would think these things would be key objectives. When it really sinks in that a group that you devoted so much of your time and resources to really didn't care about you at all, it becomes much easier to put the entire experience into perspective. Our idealism was used to manipulate us. NSA/SGI was/is not a real sangha, I think this forum is a better sangha, or supportive community, than NSA/SGI ever was.

Thanks for the follow-up Nichijew.

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Nichijew
Certainly, I and those with whom I associate treat eachother as adults and with the utmost respect.

I certainly wish the gakkai pseudo-buddhist cult organization would have lived up to those words. They are exactly the opposite.

**********

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Freeheartandmind
Our idealism was used to manipulate us.

Bingo! (And in so many bizarre ways, too.)

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jlynneda63
I feel nervous & fearful "WHAT IF"WHAT IF SAYING BAD THINGS WILL SEND ME TO HELL. WILL SOMETHING BAD HAPPEN. AM I SPENDING MT FORTUNE? How crazy is that? I actually know when they r chanting for me. Oh yeah, I forgot. I got a note from my district leader saying they should have a new meeting house soon! Lets be victorious! Which remibds me THE MEETINGS WERE HERE! WHAT HAVE I DONE? I let members down. Then i realize its propoganda but i still buy into it!

jlynneda, I felt a lot of guilt and anxiety when I began questioning SGI. SGI, like many groups, uses a lot of fear and guilt-mongering to keep members from questioning and leaving. Some is overt, telling members that they will lose all of their good luck and fortune if they leave SGI. Some is more subtle. How do we get so indoctrinated with this mindset? It's not that we're dumb....you look at the posts on this forum, and there is a lot of intelligence and insight.
Many of us encountered SGI at a low point in our lives. We were vulnerable and idealistic, and SGI leaders know how to exploit that. Humans are also social. We need others, a sense of belonging, and the feeling that we fit in. You spend time with people...you start accepting, even unconsciously, their standards and habits. "Not normal" can start to feel really normal. You look, for example, at riots. People who have never looted and destroyed things -- never even considered doing that --- will do that. It just seems normal because everyone else is doing it.

It took many of us years to develop our SGI-think (and feel). I couldn't undo this kind of thinking/feeling overnight...but over time, the fear and guilt lessen. Journaling, talking with others who've left SGI, this website, have all been a huge help to me...and just the passage of time has helped. I've left SGI, I've been openly criticizing it -- and my life has been fine.

At this point, if something awful happened to me? Well....that's life. People get sick, become disabled, lose beloved family members and the like, whether they have ever been an SGI member or not. People who are dedicated to SGI have also experienced horrible losses. Just look at some SGI leaders: Josei Toda, the second president of SGI, died at age 58. Ikeda lost his first-born son. The Kasaharas lost their son. Ronnie Smith died of cancer, and his son suffered from mental illness. Matilda Buck spent years with an alcoholic husband. David Aoyama was on a plane that crashed into the World Trade Center...I could go on and on, there are lots of examples like this.

I am not gloating, and I would never wish suffering on anyone. My point is, that SGI keeps telling people that serving SGI will prevent them from suffering from misfortune. They talk about "actual proof." Well, the actual proof here -- is that loyalty to SGI doesn't protect you from misfortune...and leaving SGI doesn't cause horrible things to happen to you.

SGI is not even consistent about its doctrines. Before 1990, the organization was saying that the high priest inherited the transmission of the law, and everyone needed to have a Nikken gohonzon....and then, all of a sudden, no, no, no, the high priest is an enemy of the law, he didn't inherit the transmission of the law -- and everyone needs to trade the Nikken gohonzon for a Nichikan gohonzon. We needed to do the long gongyo, and then all of a sudden, no, we needed to do the shortened gongyo, but chant more daimoku....and SGI has also been fooling around with the silent prayers for years.

SGI will do and say whatever serves SGI....period. jlynneda, you have not let anyone down...these people are just trying to mind-f--- you! Ignore, ignore, ignore them! Your life belongs to YOU -- not them!

Yes -- I wish I'd left SGI sooner. I'm sorry that SGI took so much of my past, but all the more reason not to let them have any of my present and future! I can't change my past, and you can't change yours -- but you CAN take your life back, and have the present and future that YOU want, no matter what your age now. If SGI took forty years of your life...you can't change that. If they don't get forty-one years -- you've won.

Saw an interesting documentary on pre-war and wartime Japan.
It shows where Ikeda's perverse and extremist beliefs come from.

In those times, many people in Japan had literally nothing, not a bowl of rice. So when people go through such extreme deprivation, they often get obsessed with that never happening again, and try to amass wealth, and think of nothing else. And guys like Ikeda will do anything to get that wealth.

Also, Japan historically used to literally worship their Emperor as a Godman hybrid, and TOTAL OBEDIENCE was the law. People could not even look at their PICTURES and had to bow down to them.
This was later stopped in principle.
But Ikeda is also pressing that button, as he portrays himself and even called himself the KING OF JAPAN.
So Ikeda was trying to take the psychological place of the Emperor in the minds of folks in Japan, right down to worshiping the photos of Ikeda, and people having absolute obedience to Ikeda's will.

Emperor Ikeda.

Ikeda is in fact a very disturbed person, the complete opposite of something to mentor. Ikeda is someone to be avoided at all costs.

SGI cannot prevent anyone from experiencing the ups and downs, sometimes hellacious,downs of life. Like tsukimoto said, plenty of devoted SGI members have experienced things in their lives that flies in the face of the SGI Frame that you can conquer all, just by practicing.

@jlynneda63, here's what I've been doing to lessen that horrible fear of disaster that will surely come by speaking out one's truth: I laugh to myself when a normal down appears and say, wow, it's that karmic retribution from President Ikeda!!! And then it's put back into perspective. And no devils appear at the door, and the issue is worked on/resolved.

Your gut has been screaming at you that this whole business is off-kilter. Trust your gut!!! That's what it's there for. The SGI is not making you happy. There's plenty of actual proof right here on this thread that life is good without SGI!