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HitchQuote
simplify"How many times did we have to hear some guest leader at a local meeting tell us how they started with the group and how their friends and family thought they had "joined a cult". It sounds like a risky thing for them to say, but it is a neurolinguistic technique that allows the listener to relate to the experience and the discomfort about the possible cult question they might have had also, but to only partially process this in the "safe" environment of being talked at by some allegedly wise leader. The leader's story moves on, then there is the happy result. Any doubt is erased. Maybe people on the forum didn't experience this, I don't know."Quote
Rattyboy
Rattyboy, I definitely experienced this. At a big all leaders meeting I remember one of our national leaders giving an experience and mentioning that her boyfriend didn't practice, but that was good because he kept 'cult watch' for her. I suppose my subconscious reaction was that if a national leader was aware of this and checking out that her actions weren't culty, that everything was OK.
I noticed the same thing rattyboy. I too remember hearing this on multiple occasions at meetings and also remember lots of fellow members nodding and smiling in relief and agreement. This is a perfect example as to how the "brainwashing" in the gakkai is a very soft, under the radar form of thought reform. Just like the "soft power" tactics discussed above to physically manipulate people, this is the mental manipulation at work. It is all disarmingly subtle and almost imperceptible. Unless you are accustomed to critical thinking, it's very likely that you won't even notice it.Quote
rattyboy
In addition to the "joined a cult" experience that a leader shared during a contribution campaign time, the leader was talking about the members' contributions going to pay the leaders' salaries. "and believe me, they need it!" the leader said. I immediately thought 2 things (besides rage): I had heard about or read that "Believe me" is an obvious but effective command. I figured "they need it" was a way of suggesting just compensation for untold great hours of work for Kosen Rufu and World Peace rather than directly stating SGI does not have the money. If I had not already been critical and on my guard, believe me, I would've been getting all misty eyed for those leaders who would be doing all that work and not getting paid enough.
There was one occasion that I explicitly remember where the members were told that sgi-usa doesn't even take in enough funds to cover the utility bills of the local community center, so Ikeda, in his immense compassion for the American members, pays for it for them out of his own pockets. Therefore, we should show our appreciation for such consideration and try to do what we can. The chutzpah, at times, could be jaw-dropping. That's one thing that I also remember about the gakkai "leaders", their condescending arrogance was always "on" full-throttle.
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Shavoy
Reading the other posts in the last few days brings up another question, well, I've asked it before methinks, but here goes: It fascinates me that Japanese culture and mindset allows the unwavering devotion of the Japanese members to P.I. and the Gakkai....yet, so many Japanese resist and dislike the Gakkai--more of an individualistic, western hemisphere reaction than I thought?
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Shavoy
Wow....pays for them out of his own pockets.....was this fairly recently, Hitch?
I want to know what the intent of the Soka Gakkai really is.......is it really just a massive ego-play for one guy with total world domination as the "winning" result? What do these leaders (not necessarily the Big Guys and Gals, but your chapter, district, etc. leader, get out of this? Does this make them happy?
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Hitch
I have a general question that I would like to throw out there to see if any you former members can relate:
Did you ever notice how hardcore gakkai members (I've seen it in both Japan and The U.S.) would treat fellow member encounters entirely differently than they would your average non-member out the street, in the real world? They would put on these fake Disneyland-like smiles you see with the greeters and guides at The Magical Kingdom, with fellow members. Yet if you were ever with them in a non-gakkai setting, the fangs would sometimes deploy and they would literally bite people and could be incredibly rude to non-members, way out of proportion to how any "normal" person would react to everyday situations. Some real life Jekyll & Hyde stuff.
Just some more of those little clues that started to help pry open the skeptical thinking box in my brain that eventually saved me from this cult.
Exactly Corboy. How difficult it is to restore sight to the blind!Quote
corboy
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I guess this woman wasn't neutral or expressing suffering so the shakabuku feelers didn't come out.
From the description given, this happy person had no vulnerable spots for the SG shakabaku outreach 'tentacles' to penetrate.
And by her being grounded, friendly and at the same time being too happy and healthy for the outreach tentacles to penetrate and ingest her into the maw of SG...
Perhaps the SG customers 'iced her'/were rejecting of her because:
**She she was living proof that someone had vitality, a place in life and happiness and healthy apart from SG.
*She was a living living refutation of the entire purpose of the SG people's lives. Perhaps at an unconscious level, she radiated what they did not have and they wanted her away from them ASAP because unconsciously she was holding up a mirror of human kindness and vitality that proved SG was unnecessary.
*She was activating doubts these people had about SG at an unconscious level and they couldnt stand to face this in themselves so they were nasty to her..all to make her move away from their table.
*If any newbie SG recruits were at the table, this woman was all the more dangerous because she demontrated one could be grounded and happy without being in SG.
Finally, to account for the Jekyll and Hyde behavior, this happens in lots of groups in addition to SG.
If you are in some entity where you have to show happiness all the time, your disowned feelings of doubt, anger, crabbiness dont disappear. All those 'bad' feelings get shoved aside. Eventually one shits them out onto a designated culprit, such as the group scapegoat, or anyone seen faltering, or some enemy designated by the leader.
People who become ill or meet with ordinary human misfortune are often pressured to hide this, and worse yet, blame themselves.
Its all very different from how Buddha woke up by seeing someone ill, someone old and someone dead, and at last forced his adult servants and parents to tell him he too would face all this.
Buddha didnt deny any of this. It gave him the energy to leave princely life and wake up.
At least so the story goes.
He rejected the trappings of power that Ikeda so loves.
And Buddhism warns about the hazards of intoxication. Mass hysteria and rallies are as much intoxication as beer and sake and any other drug.
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Hitch
Excellent post corboy. I especially enjoyed the "Yes Set" discussion. This mb really has a lot of critical information that people need to educate themselves about and be aware of.Quote
Shavoy
Reading the other posts in the last few days brings up another question, well, I've asked it before methinks, but here goes: It fascinates me that Japanese culture and mindset allows the unwavering devotion of the Japanese members to P.I. and the Gakkai....yet, so many Japanese resist and dislike the Gakkai--more of an individualistic, western hemisphere reaction than I thought?
Not sure I saw this question before, but I'll take a shot at it. The gakkai was born out of the ashes of WWII, at a time of national crisis, soul searching and confusion. The "rush hour of the gods", it has been called. Recall, also that Gen. MacArthur was equated to be like the shoten zenjin (protective buddhist gods) that allowed the gakkai to prosper. During times of very low national self-esteem, some of more baser of human instincts start to reach for the controls, and there is also an increased susceptibility to magical thinking and easy manipulation. IMO, this explains the initial appeal of the gakkai. Ironically, they are so disliked now because of their intolerant, persistent and militaristic ways. Japan is a spectrum of different individuals just like any other nation: for example, there are some who want to do away with the emperor system all together, others who tolerate it for tradition reasons and yet others who want to reinstall him to full power and past glory. It's slowly becoming a nation that is increasingly distrustful of and starting to question those in power (the Fukushima debacle is a recent case in point). It's nowhere near as individualistic as the west, but it is following, slowly, about 20-30 years behind some of the same paths as the west (for good and bad). So, while the gakkai has many members in Japan (it is perfectly suited to the Japanese mindset), it in no way has broad, universal support. They have reached a comfortable saturation point, though. I also think that it is no coincidence that they have set their eyes abroad towards International membership (it's spreading like wildfire thru South America, especially Brazil, with their large Japanese population influence).Quote
Shavoy
Wow....pays for them out of his own pockets.....was this fairly recently, Hitch?
I want to know what the intent of the Soka Gakkai really is.......is it really just a massive ego-play for one guy with total world domination as the "winning" result? What do these leaders (not necessarily the Big Guys and Gals, but your chapter, district, etc. leader, get out of this? Does this make them happy?
The utility bill story was from long ago, I don't even remember when, but I do remember which "kaikan" it was at and where I was sitting when I heard it. I remember this particular pitch story because even at the time I recognized it as ridiculously naive and insultingly manipulative (come to think of it, that's also how I felt about the "experiences" I always heard at all the meetings, too).
The chapter and district leaders that I had and knew were very sincere, although I hate to say it (in retrospect) - not very bright, people. They, IMO, practiced for their wives and went along with the program for family unity. I don't want to say too much, but they all died rather unpleasant deaths (health ravages, alone, accidents, etc.), despite their sincere, decades long practice. Again, from a retrospective point of view, it speaks volumes to me about the practice. They were good people whom I still think about and miss; they also deserved (based on my years of practice with them) a better ending than what they eventually got.
Generally speaking, what do most people get out of it? A happy delusion (JMO).