Quote
KR

After checking Anticult's link it just brought back so many laughable memories of the moral equivocation members used in effort to keep me on board ... ... then go into this condescending "guidance" session laced with nothing but President Ikeda quotes (yeah, like he is the first person you want to hear)...
.

Oh KR you really hit the nail on the head! When I was disentangling from SGI, I was astonished when senior leaders would 'home visit' me (ie arrive without warning by tagging along with a member or low-level leader I was expecting). They'd be oh so understanding and compassionate in their attempts to keep me with the programme and then start quoting Ikeda at me.

It is astonishing how deluded these people can be, not seeming to get the point that it was my discovery of what an egotistical fraud Ikeda is, that was sending me running far, far away from the organisation!

This needs to be explored further.
For those who spent a longer time in SGI, where in Ikeda's "philosophy" does he get into the concept that right/wrong don't exist, and only winning/losing?
This in fact would explain the entire SGI corporation.

Including where huge amounts of SGI money has come from, which is then moved around the world to be "cleaned" and then invested in the stock/bond and real estate markets, where the profits are extracted.
After all, if there is no such thing as right or wrong, the only thing that matters is figuring out a way to get away with it, and 'win' with maximum financial profits.

Quote
KR
Their version of Buddhism is that they teach is that they're is no such thing as right or wrong. It's about winning and losing. Maybe it's some veiled admission that the facts don't matter to the SGI.

Quote
The Anticult
This needs to be explored further.
For those who spent a longer time in SGI, where in Ikeda's "philosophy" does he get into the concept that right/wrong don't exist, and only winning/losing?
This in fact would explain the entire SGI corporation.

Including where huge amounts of SGI money has come from, which is then moved around the world to be "cleaned" and then invested in the stock/bond and real estate markets, where the profits are extracted.
After all, if there is no such thing as right or wrong, the only thing that matters is figuring out a way to get away with it, and 'win' with maximum financial profits.

It's the senior leaders will say this and such ideas are reinforced at Introductory Meetings. It's all apart of their baiting tactics. Peoples views of western religion are based on the concept of "judgement" (ie Right and wrong) They just cleverly spin it around to dupe their potential recruits into believing that SGI Buddhism doesn't judge which is quite the contrary. It's not hard to assume that anyone who attends an SGI meeting are either bitter with or have doubts with there own belief systems and given that judgement is usually a hot button issue with them, it's something they can immediately grasp on...

Sadly the word "Judgement" used in religion has been so badly beaten in society. We all make judgements on the character of others whether we like it or not. For example, I don't associate with certain relatives because they will get me killed. Unfortunately it's the zealots who are to blame for it's there actions that push people in the opposite direction. As long as they are the disenfranchised, groups like SGI will await them with open arms in which the debt could be repaid by opening a checkbook.

Another story where the SGI pretty much snitches on itself.

A few years ago I was basically getting by through a temp service. The assignment I was working at the time was at a call center, it wasn't working out so within 3 weeks I quit. I then attended a function at the local SGI center the same day and told the YMD leaders that I had quit my job. So the "chiefs" dug deep into SGI-lore to tell me the story of a Japanese member how had quit his job to attend a SGI function. He was then immediately kicked out of SGI. Of course the bogus rationale was based on that SGI is only for people who could sustain themselves.

This is quite the opposite considering when May Contribution Month comes around the corner. They bombard the members with made-up stories of the poor and suffering SGI folks who come from afar proudly give there last penny and take second mortgages for the cause of Kosen-Rufu. At first I never really could understand why someone who tell me such a story from way out of left field. Now we know.

SGI's view of morality? Leaders will say whatever they think will further their cause. I have been told that Buddhism does not have any rules equivalent to the Ten Commandments; you can do anything that you decide is right. Some leaders will add that the law of karma, cause and effect, will get you in the end if you are acting in an unwise and hurtful way. Leaders say, or at least imply, that supporting SGI and chanting a lot, will change your karma. To me, it's always sounded like you could do as you like, and then if you chanted a lot and worked hard for SGI, you could erase some of the bad karma that your poor judgement and lack of character created. It all sounded a bit like the old Catholic practice of selling indulgences.

Some leaders talk a lot about having compassion for others and living a life where you contribute to the community. Usually, they mean that having compassion for others means getting them to join SGI. Contribute to the community, by guess what, supporting SGI. Leaders used to tell me that I shouldn't contribute money to charity, because charity didn't change the roots of people's problems. Instead I should support SGI and shakabuku people -- so that they could change the karma that was at the root of their poverty, and persecution.

The Eightfold Path of the Buddha -- Right Action, Right Speech, Right Livelihood, etc. -- you'll never hear anything about that in SGI. It's considered outdated.

President Toda said this, back in the 1950's. (from page 163 of this thread):

"When I meet you, I don't ask: "Are you keeping faith?" The reason is that I take your shakubuku for granted. What I really want to ask you is how your business is, whether you are making money, and if you are healthy. Only when all of you receive divine benefits do I feel happy. A person who says "I keep faith; I conduct shakubuku" when he is poor - I don't consider him my pupil. Your faith has only one purpose: to improve your business and family life. Those who talk about "faith" and do not attend to their business are sacrilegious. Business is a service to the community. I will expel those of you who do nothing but shakubuku without engaging in business." (Murata, pp.107-8)

This sums up SGI's ideas of faith and morality: Make money. Be successful. The ends justify the means. Leaders can rattle on and on about humanism, compassion, justice, standing up for what is right...but President Toda told the world, back in the 1950's, what SGI was really all about.

Quote
KR
This is quite the opposite considering when May Contribution Month comes around the corner. They bombard the members with made-up stories of the poor and suffering SGI folks who come from afar proudly give there last penny and take second mortgages for the cause of Kosen-Rufu. At first I never really could understand why someone who tell me such a story from way out of left field. Now we know.

Yes, those are classic techniques.
Sect leaders have learned that DESPERATE people, are the ones who will literally spend their last dollar.
Most sects TARGET people who are desperate, for that reason.
Perhaps they are depressed, have a serious illness, family problems, etc.
(PAIN)
Then the sect/cult tells them how to relieve their Pain and attain fake Enlightenment.
Usually along the lines of joining the sect, and giving them all your money, and working for free.

As a bonus, when people are broke, they become more emotionally dependent on SGI.
After they get used up, SGI just lets them go, and gets new people in.

Of course people who are RICH are often treated differently. They know who is rich, by the size of the monthly donation, etc. Those folks get special treatment.



And yes, the abuse of the Buddhist views of reality can create problems.
As the saying goes..."the Buddha is with the piss and the shit".
Now of course that can be taken many ways.

But its clear that Ikeda-SGI has taken a view of reality, that there is no such thing as "Good or Evil'.
Again, that can be taken many ways.

But its very easy for SGI-Ikeda to then do literally whatever they want.
And the Leaders have different rules than the peons.


This is why the question keeps coming up about where the BILLIONS in assets from SGI came from? Sure, some came from housewives, and from people donating, but only some of it.
Maybe someday there will be an investigation on where the SGI billions came from, and how that money is 'cleaned' and sent around the world, hidden behind a religious corporation.


In Japan, "religions" get a free pass.
So of course, anyone with 'black money' as they call it, looks for ways to clean it up.
One doesn't need to be an expert in finance, to see that millions in cash can be put into a large religious sect very easily, then sloshed around the world, and invested into the stock market and real estate, and come out clean.

Bottom line.
since SGI has totally closed books, no one should ever give SGI one dollar, not one nickel.
And no free labor for SGI either.
No donations, no buying of their products, etc.
SGI is not worthy, as its just a big secret private family controlled multi-billion dollar family business for Ikeda family.

There are better ways to contribute to the world.
Besides, Ikeda is opposed to "charity" which is just an excuse for SGI to not give any money away. Meanwhile, all SGI does is ask for charity from others, to give them their money.

SGI really is an amazing scam of epic proportions.

Thread: Is Soka Gakkai a Cult?
[forum.gaijinpot.com]

Please pardon this extensive post and touting conspiracy theories. The over riding issue about SGI that makes no sense and I have an issue with involves the destruction of Sho Hondo. The massive temple (once considered one the architectural wonders of the world) built in the 1970's (I believe) and was destroyed by NST after SGI excommunication in the mid- 1990's. I had read a claim that the temple was actually destroyed due to shoddy construction resulting in maintenance that would have been extremely costly. When the temple was built, Ikeda had abused monies and hired incompetent cronies to poorly construct a grand temple which in a short time would see its own demise. The source I had picked this up from is biased- suggesting that this is a NST claim. However I want to find other sources that could at least back this claim up.

I never bought into the notion that the destruction of the temple was a product of priesthood jealousy as suggested by SGI. The destruction to the temple boils down to one thing; cost of maintenance but which version is true. Since the ranks of NST were vastly depleted by the mass exodus of SGI, the cost of operating it would have been far more taxing now that NST skirted a vast portion of their revenue stream. How much did it really cost for the maintenance of the temple? It could have sat dormant until enough money came through to actually operate again but it has to be speculated that the maintenance cost would have been too enormous.

I believe there is a cover-up where NST is about as complicit as SGI. Since the temple was built off the backs of SGI members, Ikeda not only manipulated the money that was being poured in but also use it as opportunity to manipulate the minds fostering the “us versus them” complex that has defined SGI since excommunication. Part of NST’s complicity in the cover-up was out fear. The backlash would not only have devastating consequences to the SGI but to NST as well. They had no choice but to go along with the cover-up. NST’s interest is to protect their credibility. For presenting what really happened will expose their complicity in SGI business practices that they have engaged with for years. Airing out such dirty laundry could of crushed them.

Ikeda used the temple as leverage for a power grab in which he did successfully, masterfully playing it as a win-win situation. Building of such a huge asset would effectively put the priest in his pocket and keep them indebted to him. Such an endeavor involving financial contributions from fellow lay members guarantees an emotional investment into such a massive project so loyalties would split. Ikeda used his budding influence as an insurance policy so after lining his ducks in order (loyalties to him and finances) to orchestrate his contingency plan to absolve his own turbulent relationship with NST. The temple maintenance issue was nothing but a rouse in Ikeda’s scheme. He pushed his influence on to the breaking point where NST eventually wised up and despite what SGI-lore would suggest, knew they were at the losing end of the situation. NST had to cut their losses via excommunication. Sensei cashed in his chips the day when the temple was destroyed because the ROI off the back of his loyal SGI followers made a huge pay off and there was very little NST could do about it outside admitting to being enablers to Sensei’s schemes. They danced around the subject to the point where they couldn’t save face.

According to SGI’s own teachings, there is no such thing as right or wrong, in (SGI) Buddhism it’s about winning and losing and the above theory serves as testament to the manipulation of their own beneficiaries to win Sensei’s war of attrition with NST. The ends justify the means. No one will ever know why the temple was ordered destroyed. If any definitive facts could be presented on the temple issue that could support this theory it would shatter SGI’s credibility with its core believers. Knowing that the temple was used as an end to a means, could any SGI faithful in good conscience give money?

If anyone could offer any sources or insight, it would be greatly appreciated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2012 04:12AM by KR.

Nichiren talked about winning and losing ["victory or defeat"] in Buddhism in ONE writing but never at the expense of honesty, honor, and leading an ethical life. In another writing he stated: "However wretched a beggar you might become, never disgrace the Lotus Sutra." Even Nichiren is considered a loser among many SGI top leaders because he never amassed wealth nor status while alive. They are a sick perverted bunch.

Nichijew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2012 06:24AM by Nichijew.

KR, regarding the destruction of the Shohondo -- you can google and read for hours. It boils down to, pro-SGI writers say that High Priest Nikken destroyed a beautiful, structurally-sound building out of hatred for President Ikeda, and pro-Nichiren Shoshu writers say that the building was poorly constructed and in danger of collapsing.

www.toride.org, the "Victims of the Soka Gakkai" website, argues that the danger was the roof, this huge concrete elliptical canopy-ish thing. This part of the roof was estimated to weigh about 20,000 tons. I have no background in architecture or engineering, but it seems like an odd thing to build in an earthquake zone.

The concrete was poured over a framework of steel bars, for reinforcement, a common practice when someone is making a big concrete structure. An engineer friend said that this generally works well because concrete usually is alkaline, and so will not break down the steel.

The Nichiren Shoshu folk say that they were finding a lot of rust on the concrete and stone in the Shohondo. This was a sign that the reinforcing bars inside the concrete roof canopy were breaking down. They say that it was because the concrete was made with ocean-beach sand...which has salt in it. Salt weakens metal and causes it to rust. If this is true...then yes, parts of the Shohondo's roof might have started breaking off and falling down, especially during an earthquake.

SGI supporters say that for the Shohondo construction, river sand, which is alkaline and not salty, was used. They also say that the reinforcing bars were made of ship steel, which has been treated so that it can be immersed in salt water and not rust or weaken.

Each side presents documents and testimony from "experts." So who is right? I don't think that we'll ever know.

One interesting claim that the Toride website makes: the money to build the Shohondo did NOT come from members' donations. SGI had a huge fund-raising campaign at the time -- "Donate money to build a sanctuary for the Dai-Gohonzon," Toride says that the money that built the Shohondo came from money that SGI made through interest on its investments.

I agree with you, KR, that this was all a ploy that Ikeda came up with. We do know that there was bad blood between the Nichiren Shoshu priests and Presidents Toda and Ikeda since the 1940's. I've always believed that Ikeda and Toda resolved to split with Nichiren Shoshu once SGI became wealthy and large enough to manage on its own.

What better way to stick it to the priests than to give them a troublesome gift? Design and create a building that will need extensive and expensive maintenance. Next, drastically cut the priests' income.

Then watch the fun. The roof could collapse. Or maybe the priests would have to sink a ton of money into repairs and maintenance. In the end, maybe the priests would just have to tear it down. Since members believed that this building was built with their savings, and hard-earned donations, they'd be furious, and SGIkeda would look like the good guys. Or they could claim that the priests angered the shoten zenjin and created bad karma, so see what happened to them? Divine retribution. Maybe they were hoping that the roof would collapse on Nikken himself.

Again, this is all just my guess. It's interesting to speculate, but in the end, how much does it really matter? Can anyone really prove anything either way?

I would focus on what we do know. SGI has billions of dollars in investments and property. It manipulates members into donating money and working for free, yet refuses to tell the members what it has or how their donations are spent.

General members have no vote, no grievance procedures, no redress if they feel that SGI has wronged them.

If you look at the Rick Ross archives, there have been many financial scandals -- embezzlement, fraud, linked to SGI.

It calls itself a Buddhist organization, but promotes a personality cult, rather than Buddhism. It essentially says that Buddhism is about making money!

It shuts down websites that criticize it, and harasses its critics.

Its leaders give "guidance" on issues that they are not qualified to address, such as medicine, dealing with troubled kids, personal finance, and domestic violence -- sometimes with disastrous results for the members who try to follow the guidance.

Members are manipulated into neglecting their careers, education, marriages, children and health in order to devote more time to SGI.

I think that these are enough reasons to leave, or never join, SGI. Even if someone had proof that SGI really did set this all up, as you and I suspect, KR -- I doubt that it would shatter SGI's credibility with its core believers. Any proof that anyone could present -- they'd say it was somehow made up by enemies of SGI. They will believe in Ikeda and SGI no matter what. For the rest of us, there are enough other reasons to mistrust SGI.