I actually haven't been on here in awhile,last night I went back to the very first posts on this forum,and read many. It's been about a year since my decision to ween my way out of the SGI,and haven't recieved any hassle,still a phone call, will trickle in ,or an ocassional email about meetings, but I have to say I'm so glad I got out,and saw all the programming, mind control,manipulation ect. I've actually been doing alot of studying ,and research on Religous organizations,mind control and programming,and I've been doing alot of deprogramming. I came on the board at first with alot of anger and disappointment ,but have calmed down alot.LOL This was part of my path and something I needed to experience to be more aware, stronger, and learn more about me. I actually met one good friend from other members who was never a member so I still believe in no accidents or mistakes!

Does anyone have any experience on how to gracefuly return your gohonzon? The new year is coming up and I want to clean house in my life and move forward! I want to do kind of secretly for the odvious reasons.

Quote
Miss66
I actually haven't been on here in awhile,last night I went back to the very first posts on this forum,and read many. It's been about a year since my decision to ween my way out of the SGI,and haven't recieved any hassle,still a phone call, will trickle in ,or an ocassional email about meetings, but I have to say I'm so glad I got out,and saw all the programming, mind control,manipulation ect. I've actually been doing alot of studying ,and research on Religous organizations,mind control and programming,and I've been doing alot of deprogramming. I came on the board at first with alot of anger and disappointment ,but have calmed down alot.LOL This was part of my path and something I needed to experience to be more aware, stronger, and learn more about me. I actually met one good friend from other members who was never a member so I still believe in no accidents or mistakes!

Does anyone have any experience on how to gracefuly return your gohonzon? The new year is coming up and I want to clean house in my life and move forward! I want to do kind of secretly for the odvious reasons.

There are many different ways to rid yourself of the Nichikan Gohonzon. Send it back via mail. Return it personally. Burn it while chanting the Daimoku and the Jiga-ge or if you no longer chant you can return it to a priest or member of another Nichiren sect for respectful disposal. Some more radical Nichiren practitioners would argue that the Nichikan Gohonzon, since it isn't a valid Lotus Sutra object of devotion in the first place, can be disposed of any way you like, including throwing it in the trash. I think personally, though it isn't a valid Gohonzon, without clearly recognizing the difference between a valid Nichiren Gohonzon and the Nichikan Gohonzon, one should, as you say, "gracefully" remove it from your life.

Nichijew

Quote
Miss66
I actually haven't been on here in awhile,last night I went back to the very first posts on this forum,and read many. It's been about a year since my decision to ween my way out of the SGI,and haven't recieved any hassle,still a phone call, will trickle in ,or an ocassional email about meetings, but I have to say I'm so glad I got out,and saw all the programming, mind control,manipulation ect. I've actually been doing alot of studying ,and research on Religous organizations,mind control and programming,and I've been doing alot of deprogramming. I came on the board at first with alot of anger and disappointment ,but have calmed down alot.LOL This was part of my path and something I needed to experience to be more aware, stronger, and learn more about me. I actually met one good friend from other members who was never a member so I still believe in no accidents or mistakes!

Does anyone have any experience on how to gracefuly return your gohonzon? The new year is coming up and I want to clean house in my life and move forward! I want to do kind of secretly for the odvious reasons.

There are many different ways to rid yourself of the Nichikan Gohonzon. Send it back via mail. Return it personally. Burn it while chanting the Daimoku and the Jiga-ge or, if you no longer chant, you can return it to a priest or member of another Nichiren sect for respectful disposal. Some more radical Nichiren practitioners would argue that the Nichikan Gohonzon, since it isn't a valid Nichiren Gohonzon, can be disposed of any way you like, including throwing it in the trash. I think personally, though it isn't a valid Gohonzon, without clearly recognizing the difference between a valid Nichiren Gohonzon and the Nichikan Gohonzon, one should, as you say, "gracefully" remove it from your life.

Nichijew

@Miss66, I just want to add to Nichijew's suggestion on returning the Gohonzon personally....I know you want to be low-key and that's totally understandable. I've found that returning the Gohonzon back to a district/chapter or whoever leader to be pretty painless. They may request a home visit to discuss your decision, of course, but you just put your firm foot down, and they should honor that and then drift back out to sea. The key is to be firm, which you are. If you're no longer interested in being on board with the program, interest is lost on their side. Plus, they can be a bit fearful of entering the Harassment Zone.

That's been the experience for me.

Thanks to all of you who have replied. You have all provided lots of insight and clear headed direction.

We are not planning on a divorce and I really don't see that happening at all. My wife and I have gone from fighting to calm rational discussions. To her credit, she has been reading quite a lot these past few days and facing some really tough issues regarding her upbringing and the organizational side of SGI. I think she is seeing the cultish ways of the SGI and I hope it takes root and she can overcome it. She has been reading this thread and says she can identify with many of you who have written. She still has, as many of you do, an affection for the chanting and all but, like I said, she is seeing the corruption in the SGI for the first time.

So I have a few questions for you guys.

1) Regarding the gohonzon: I have seen many references to it being a fraud in its current state. Can you explain this better?

2) Supposing my wife wants to practice Nichiren Buddhism apart from SGI, where does she turn? I know this may cause some debate, but is there at least a source for reading?

3) Any chance of providing links to videos or posting brochures from the SGI that show the cultish behaviors? Anecdotal evidence is fine, but it has much more impact in print or coming from the mouth of PI.


My wife and I are actually doing pretty well under the circumstances. I am wary but trying to give her time and space to deal with these things. I left a cult back in 2004ish and it was really hard to do. It took years to really get my bearings.

I am hoping that she will register on here and post her thoughts and ask a few questions. It might be interesting for you all to see this happening play by play.

Hi Mitchell,

Here are personal opinion and thoughts on the questions that you have posed.

1) Regarding the gohonzon: I have seen many references to it being a fraud in its current state. Can you explain this better?

There have been many reports on the Dai Gohonzon was craved by Nhichiu Shonin - the 9th High Priest of Nichiren Shoshu and the forgery of a number of goshos including the transfer documents. The Dai Gohonzon and the documents have been been rejected by most Nichiren Scholars and rest of other Nichiren Schools. I have gotten the source from Chris Holte website -[www.geocities.ws] which provides alot of good information as well as from [nichirenscoffeehouse.net]- an independent Nichiren Buddhism website. Most of the materials should have been researched and quoted from Jackie Stone book - Original Enlightenment and the Transformation of Medieval Japanese Buddhism (Studies in East Asian Buddhism) and Daniel B. Montgomery - "Fire in the Lotus". These 2 books are usually quoted as independent studies of Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism if I am not wrong.

2) Supposing my wife wants to practice Nichiren Buddhism apart from SGI, where does she turn? I know this may cause some debate, but is there at least a source for reading?
For myself, I am trying to practice independently as some of our american comrades. I have taken reference from [www.nichirendaishoninsbuddhism.com] on practicing independently. Of course, there are more Nichiren sects in the states and Japan as compare to where I come from. You can maybe go to [nichirenscoffeehouse.net] for a brief overview of all the different sects or from Wikipedia which is a good source as well...

3) Any chance of providing links to videos or posting brochures from the SGI that show the cultish behaviors? Anecdotal evidence is fine, but it has much more impact in print or coming from the mouth of PI.
I do not have the videos or print from mouth of PI. From my understanding, there is an BBC interview in 1964 that PI claim about been the ruler of Japan in 1990 or something like dat which I have yet to find. However there are independent URLs that describe about the meetings with PI as well as those seminars/speeches organized by the so call independent organiziers which some have find out that have links to SGI or sponsored by them. Polly Toynbee has written something in the Guardian to critize PI and it also seems that SGI is always very concern on their image espeically with journalists around them. Maybe it is because they have been heavily criticized in Japan by the media.

Dear Mitchell:

I have about a hundred videos on my blog site and tons of information. I won't promote my blog here but you can personal message me and I wil give you whatever I have that might help to awaken your wife. Here is a recent post with some interesting videos:

Soka Gakkai the Lie and the Reality

Soka Gakkai the lie:

"Second Soka Gakkai president Josei Toda described it [SGI Kosen Rufu]
very succinctly as ga joyful, pure, and sunny realm of friends living
together in harmony and peace.


This is an apt description of the Soka Gakkai\the organization that
Mr. Toda said was more important to him than his own life.h -- Part of
Daisaku Ikeda's Message for the 53rd SGI Headquarters Leaders Meeting
["November 6, 2011"]


Soka Gakkai the reality:

[vdo.palungjit.com]–\—͏W’c@Œ°³‰ï‚Q@Š«‚­Œ¢«‰ïóˆäŽ‰q


[vdo.palungjit.com]%...


[vdo.palungjit.com]–\—͏W’c-Œ°³‰ï‚P


[vdo.palungjit.com]–\—͏W’c@Œ°³‰ï‚T@–@˜_‚©‚瓦‚°‚éóˆäº‰q

@snagdude

Thanks so much for the links and information. I checked out the links and will continue to read and try and learn more. One thing that puzzles me still regarding the gohonzon: I thought I read somewhere here in this thread that at the time of the split in 1991 the gohonzon was altered and it was this altered version that was considered the fraudulent one. The geocities site detailed a lengthy history that honestly went over my head; it reminded me of christians bickering over which version of the bible is more authentic...

@Nichijew

Thank you for the links. Would you mind giving a short synopsis of each video and perhaps certain points that stand out? I see that they have something to do with violence, but that's all I can garner. I'll show them to my wife tomorrow sometime. In case she takes a point of view that these videos are somehow acceptable, I'd like to have your opinion to show another side. But, of course, they may be so ridiculous that even the staunchest SGI defender would be left speechless! Also, PM coming your way.

Just a note on my wife: she has spent a lot of time reading and thinking and is making a lot of progress. We talk openly without fighting. She mentioned this morning that she was reading about the Komeito party on the Japanese wikipedia site and that while it had a lot of good, eye opening for her, information it said something like in the late 80s that the government made it illegal to have religious groups affiliated with political parties. I checked the english wikipedia and all I saw was that the SGI and Komeito are independent. Thoughts?

Also, my yesterday my wife shared something pretty significant for her. She talked about all the literature and the speeches from PI that stressed the importance of respecting other peoples' religions. She then talked about how SGI goes on and on about rosen kufu (sp?). She came to the conclusion that your really cannot respect another person's religion AND at the same time tell them to replace it with SGI. I think this is a huge step for her. She, a fortune baby no less, said this!

Additionally, I asked her about the Gojukai ceremony and she confirmed that she had done it. Yesterday she said that felt terrible for doing it behind my back and that she was feeling really bad about naming our daughter the way she did. She called it a day of guilt and lamented on in her words "what kind of religion can make it okay to lie?" She told me that she would call and have our daughter's name removed from her "card". I guess that's some membership card.

Step by step...

Oh for crying out loud! I just read the english wikipedia site again on the New Komeito party and at the top where it says that NKP and SGI are independent it has a source: [www.komei.or.jp]

On the source page it clearly states that the NKP and the SGI are rather co-dependent and they skirt around the issue of article 20 of their constitution that separates religion and state.