Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Nichijew
()
Date: September 02, 2011 08:01AM
SGIBye: I thought the exact same thing!
Rattyboy: Excellent Excellent!
Nichijew
Rattyboy: Excellent Excellent!
Nichijew
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Shavoy
()
Date: September 03, 2011 03:54AM
bobze, thanks for passing along Tsukimoto's quote. I've been reading The Human Revolution again, the one that was published back in the 70's, not to mention WT's from the 80's and 90's. The message is more subtle, but it's still there. Having to defend and protect and never, ever criticize the mentor or the Soka Gakkai. Otherwise, bad, bad things will befall the traitor. It seems to me that this is like Tsukimoto said, rallying the troops, us against them...
But bad things happen to those who don't walk the same walk. Troubles happen to Christians, Muslims, Mormons, Quakers, people get through them and have gratitude and peace. Hell-and-Brimstone Christianity, as we well know, tells non-believers they are condemned to Eternal Hell.
I dunno...what's the difference?
Why are SGI'ers being told they have to accept President Ikeda, or, it's in their best, most correct interest to accept Mr. Ikeda as their sole king life mentor? No Ikeda tickee, no enlightenment?
Subtle Authoritism? The very thing that Makiguchi and Toda fought against?
I know I'm a broken record with thoughts at times, but just trying to understand this whole, complicated picture.
But bad things happen to those who don't walk the same walk. Troubles happen to Christians, Muslims, Mormons, Quakers, people get through them and have gratitude and peace. Hell-and-Brimstone Christianity, as we well know, tells non-believers they are condemned to Eternal Hell.
I dunno...what's the difference?
Why are SGI'ers being told they have to accept President Ikeda, or, it's in their best, most correct interest to accept Mr. Ikeda as their sole king life mentor? No Ikeda tickee, no enlightenment?
Subtle Authoritism? The very thing that Makiguchi and Toda fought against?
I know I'm a broken record with thoughts at times, but just trying to understand this whole, complicated picture.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Nichijew
()
Date: September 04, 2011 10:40AM
Quote
Shavoy
bobze, thanks for passing along Tsukimoto's quote. I've been reading The Human Revolution again, the one that was published back in the 70's, not to mention WT's from the 80's and 90's. The message is more subtle, but it's still there. Having to defend and protect and never, ever criticize the mentor or the Soka Gakkai. Otherwise, bad, bad things will befall the traitor. It seems to me that this is like Tsukimoto said, rallying the troops, us against them...
But bad things happen to those who don't walk the same walk. Troubles happen to Christians, Muslims, Mormons, Quakers, people get through them and have gratitude and peace. Hell-and-Brimstone Christianity, as we well know, tells non-believers they are condemned to Eternal Hell.
I dunno...what's the difference?
Why are SGI'ers being told they have to accept President Ikeda, or, it's in their best, most correct interest to accept Mr. Ikeda as their sole king life mentor? No Ikeda tickee, no enlightenment?
Subtle Authoritism? The very thing that Makiguchi and Toda fought against?
I know I'm a broken record with thoughts at times, but just trying to understand this whole, complicated picture.
The World of Anger and ego. Toda and Makiguchi only fought against "Subtle Authoritarianism" in the handpicked writings that SGI deems "safe" to release to the members. If one digs under the surface, one finds not subtle but overt authoritarianism in the writings of these men.
Nichijew
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2011 10:42AM by Nichijew.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
backnforth
()
Date: September 06, 2011 02:42AM
Nichijew,
I'm sure you must have a couple examples of their 'overt authoritarianism' - could you share more details?
I'm sure you must have a couple examples of their 'overt authoritarianism' - could you share more details?
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
Nichijew
()
Date: September 06, 2011 10:44AM
Quote
backnforth
Nichijew,
I'm sure you must have a couple examples of their 'overt authoritarianism' - could you share more details?
Here are a few:
President Toda taught in his Lecture on the Sutra:
“With this silent prayer, we express our sincere thanks to the Second High Priest Nikko Shonin, the founder of Head temple Taisekiji. Hossui-shabyo: Hossui is the Law or Buddhism metaphorically compared to clean water. Shabyo means “transfer. Now suppose here are two glasses, one of which is filled with water. The water is transferred from one glass into the other. The quality of the water remains unchanged through this transfer even though the shapes of the glasses may differ. Simililarly, the Hossui of Nichiren Daishonin was handed down from Nikko Shonin to Third High Priest Nichimoku Shonin. However, its geneuine purity was not changed in the least. This solemn tradition has been strictly maintained by the successive high priests of Nichiren Shoshu.
YUIGA YOGA: This means that the life of Nikko Shonin equals that of Nichiren Daishonin. A Gohonzon called the “Tobi” (Flying) Mandala” is enshrined at Butsugenji Temple in Sendai City in Northeast Japan. It was inscribed co-operatively by the Daishonin and His immediate successor Nikko Shonin. This fact evidences what yuiga yoga signifies.” –Josei Toda as quoted in: From “Lectures on the Sutra” Third Edition, 1968 Seikyo Press.
"We, ourselves, cannot produce the Gohonzon. Since it's the
enlightened entity of Nichiren Daishonin, no one has the authority
other than the successive high priests who have been the sole heirs
to the heritage of the True Law. We take no part in this. Therefore,
the objects of worship inscribed by those in the Butsuryu and Minobu
factions [of the Nichiren sect] are absolutely powerless. They are
worthless because they are fake. In fact, they contain the power of
evil spirits. That is why they are dangerous." Former SGI president,
Josei Toda, Daibyaku Renge, 98, p. 98.
"'Sacrifice your own skin to slash the opponent's flesh. Surrender your
own flesh to saw off the opponent's bone.' With their faithful
implementation of this well-known Japanese fencing (kendo) strategy
into actual practice during the war, the Japanese military is able to
achieve her glorious, ever-victorious invincibility in the Sino-Japan
conflict and in the Pacific war, and thus, easing the minds of the Japa-
nese people. This [strategy of sacrifice] should be held as an ideal
lifestyle for those remaining on the home front and should be applied
in every aspect of our daily life." --Tsunesaburo makiguchi
From:"The Instruction Manual Summarizing the Experiments and Testimonials of
Life based on the Philosophy of Value of the Supreme Goodness."
Nichijew
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
simplify
()
Date: September 08, 2011 04:22AM
Hi folks,
I haven't posted for a while. I'm the one who brought up the query as to whether SGI used its videos to send subliminal messages to the members. I still think this is very possible, but it will be difficult to find the truth unless someone involved with the making or editing of the videos comes clean.
I'm still in the process of quietly extracting myself from the organisation and so far I haven't had too many phone calls or home visits, so hopefully they will forget about me soon. I was only a lowly district leader and was easily replaced by a more compliant Ikedabot.
So was not feeling too bad, except when I was chanting the other day I found a tiny booklet in my bead purse that we'd been given a while ago. I hadn't looked at it at the time and out of curiosity I opened it and glanced through it. It is a reprint of one of Ikeda's poems "In Praise of my friends of the United Kingdom, pioneers of the Seven Seas".
I didn't read the poem, I couldn't read that sort of stuff even when I was a good SGI buddhist. But at the end it says:
"3 November 2002
Daisaku Ikeda
(World Poet Laureate)"
What? WHAT? WORLD POET LAUREATE?
I cannot express how disgusted I am about this shameless self-aggrandisement. If anyone reading this is in doubt about whether SGI is a personality cult, surely you can see from this that it is. No mentally healthy and sincerely practising Buddhist would do this sort of thing - would they? Well would they? Does the guy suffer from Narcissistic personality disorder? Is he a actually a psychopath?
This may seem a small thing to you, but to me this dotted the 'i's and crossed the tees as to how bogus the SGI is and how deluded and brainwashed those members who 'worship' Ikeda must be.
For your edification (get the sick bag ready) here are a couple of quotes from this rambling poem (it hurts me to call it a poem):
"Prince Charles and Princess Anne,
Unforgettable encounters with the members
of the royal family.
My golden memories.'
and (...showing great modesty as befits the leader of a Buddhist organisation)
"It was on 14 June 1994,
that glorious history was made again
at the magnificent Glasgow University,
which boasts ancient traditions,
when I was bestowed an honorary doctorate
in a solemn ceremony..."
Um, you, Mr Ikeda, might think that your being awarded yet another honorary doctorate (among the hundreds that you/SGI paid for and your disciples 'hassled' for) makes 'glorious history'. I, for one, beg to differ.
And the 'poetry' - urgh. I wish Ted Hughes was still alive (he was merely Poet Laureate of the United Kingdom). I would have loved to show him Mr Ikeda's 'poetry'. What fun we would have had reading it aloud to one another. Although, actually, Ted might have died laughing at it so perhaps it is best he never came across it.
Sorry about the long rant. As I said before, I cannot express adequately how shocked and actually physically ill it made me to read this thing.
Thanks for listening.
I haven't posted for a while. I'm the one who brought up the query as to whether SGI used its videos to send subliminal messages to the members. I still think this is very possible, but it will be difficult to find the truth unless someone involved with the making or editing of the videos comes clean.
I'm still in the process of quietly extracting myself from the organisation and so far I haven't had too many phone calls or home visits, so hopefully they will forget about me soon. I was only a lowly district leader and was easily replaced by a more compliant Ikedabot.
So was not feeling too bad, except when I was chanting the other day I found a tiny booklet in my bead purse that we'd been given a while ago. I hadn't looked at it at the time and out of curiosity I opened it and glanced through it. It is a reprint of one of Ikeda's poems "In Praise of my friends of the United Kingdom, pioneers of the Seven Seas".
I didn't read the poem, I couldn't read that sort of stuff even when I was a good SGI buddhist. But at the end it says:
"3 November 2002
Daisaku Ikeda
(World Poet Laureate)"
What? WHAT? WORLD POET LAUREATE?
I cannot express how disgusted I am about this shameless self-aggrandisement. If anyone reading this is in doubt about whether SGI is a personality cult, surely you can see from this that it is. No mentally healthy and sincerely practising Buddhist would do this sort of thing - would they? Well would they? Does the guy suffer from Narcissistic personality disorder? Is he a actually a psychopath?
This may seem a small thing to you, but to me this dotted the 'i's and crossed the tees as to how bogus the SGI is and how deluded and brainwashed those members who 'worship' Ikeda must be.
For your edification (get the sick bag ready) here are a couple of quotes from this rambling poem (it hurts me to call it a poem):
"Prince Charles and Princess Anne,
Unforgettable encounters with the members
of the royal family.
My golden memories.'
and (...showing great modesty as befits the leader of a Buddhist organisation)
"It was on 14 June 1994,
that glorious history was made again
at the magnificent Glasgow University,
which boasts ancient traditions,
when I was bestowed an honorary doctorate
in a solemn ceremony..."
Um, you, Mr Ikeda, might think that your being awarded yet another honorary doctorate (among the hundreds that you/SGI paid for and your disciples 'hassled' for) makes 'glorious history'. I, for one, beg to differ.
And the 'poetry' - urgh. I wish Ted Hughes was still alive (he was merely Poet Laureate of the United Kingdom). I would have loved to show him Mr Ikeda's 'poetry'. What fun we would have had reading it aloud to one another. Although, actually, Ted might have died laughing at it so perhaps it is best he never came across it.
Sorry about the long rant. As I said before, I cannot express adequately how shocked and actually physically ill it made me to read this thing.
Thanks for listening.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
simplify
()
Date: September 08, 2011 04:57AM
For those of you who got through the rant above and are interested here is some research I did on the title "World Poet Laureate":
I googled 'World Poet Laureate' and found that 'Ikeda was honoured with the award of World Poet Laureate by the World Poetry Society Intercontinental in the year 1995'. So I googled World Poetry Society Intercontinental.
It was difficult to find much but I eventually found this at poetryworldpublications.weebly.com which says Poetry World Publications are the publication division of World Poetry Society Intercontinental, 'Under the patronage of DR DAISAKU IKEDA, President SGI, Tokyo, Japan'.
So he (or we) bought the company and awarded himself the laureate. Since this page also tells us that the founder of WPSI was Krishna Srinivas (who he?) I found the following user page for him on Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dr.Krishnasrinivas . This article is commented for deletion as it has absolutely no verifiable references in it.
Also an author called Andreas Schroeder has an amusing description of his interactions with WPSI in an interview at
Interview
In a reply to the interviewer's question:
"5.Have you ever planned a scam before? Or do you want to just for fun?"
Shroeder says:
"Yes, I've not only planned a scam, I actually pulled it off.
There was a literary organization that called itself THE WORLD POETRY SOCIETY
INTERCONTINENTAL. They took advantage of young hopeful writers by offering to
publish their work - but for a considerable fee. They made big claims about how
publication in their anthologies would promote a young writer's career, when in fact
nobody in the writing industry took their publications at all seriously because they'd
publish anyone, as long as the person paid the fees."
.....Schroeder then goes on to describe the details of the scam.
So it looks like the WPSI is an obscure and somewhat dodgy one man band publisher in India, under the PATRONAGE of (ie. paid for by) DR DAISAKU IKEDA, World Poet Laureate, of course. Classy.
I googled 'World Poet Laureate' and found that 'Ikeda was honoured with the award of World Poet Laureate by the World Poetry Society Intercontinental in the year 1995'. So I googled World Poetry Society Intercontinental.
It was difficult to find much but I eventually found this at poetryworldpublications.weebly.com which says Poetry World Publications are the publication division of World Poetry Society Intercontinental, 'Under the patronage of DR DAISAKU IKEDA, President SGI, Tokyo, Japan'.
So he (or we) bought the company and awarded himself the laureate. Since this page also tells us that the founder of WPSI was Krishna Srinivas (who he?) I found the following user page for him on Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dr.Krishnasrinivas . This article is commented for deletion as it has absolutely no verifiable references in it.
Also an author called Andreas Schroeder has an amusing description of his interactions with WPSI in an interview at
Interview
In a reply to the interviewer's question:
"5.Have you ever planned a scam before? Or do you want to just for fun?"
Shroeder says:
"Yes, I've not only planned a scam, I actually pulled it off.
There was a literary organization that called itself THE WORLD POETRY SOCIETY
INTERCONTINENTAL. They took advantage of young hopeful writers by offering to
publish their work - but for a considerable fee. They made big claims about how
publication in their anthologies would promote a young writer's career, when in fact
nobody in the writing industry took their publications at all seriously because they'd
publish anyone, as long as the person paid the fees."
.....Schroeder then goes on to describe the details of the scam.
So it looks like the WPSI is an obscure and somewhat dodgy one man band publisher in India, under the PATRONAGE of (ie. paid for by) DR DAISAKU IKEDA, World Poet Laureate, of course. Classy.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
rattyboy
()
Date: September 08, 2011 11:51AM
Here's an example of a method of acheiving authority over a large Soka Gakkai gathering from Dr. Hirotatsu Fujiwara's book "I Denounce Soka Gakkai" from 1970:
"Ikeda's close associates, when addressing the audience, do so from a higher level in commanding tones and authoritative speech, and by means of this maintain vertically a great distance between themselves and the audience, and they leave no doubt in anyone's mind concerning the difference in their rank and that of the audience. Their obvious aim is to make it clear that their position and rank is vastly higher than that of the members of the audience. Then, the one who is the highest ranking, the man at the very top of the organization enters, and in a tone and manner far removed from that of the lower ranking executives, addresses the audience in gentle tones and on their level! By comparison with his close associates, not only is the President's personality much brighter, but also between the highest ranking member, the President, and the lowest ranking members present there is a feeling of intimacy and familiarity. In this way, by manipulating the psychological distance they create familiarity and authority...."
I happened upon a rare glimpse at The new human Revolution, a passage from Volume 10 written under Ikeda's name describing himself, the fictional Shi'nichi:
"They felt as if they had glimpsed part of this young leader's mind for the first time, a mind amazingly profound for his age. They simply marveled and heartily agreed with him."
Just before that , the other young men were bumbling and confused while our great hero was steadfast in his ability to be right in every action. Sometimes attributing it to daimoku or following his mentor, but nevertheless getting it right.
"Ikeda's close associates, when addressing the audience, do so from a higher level in commanding tones and authoritative speech, and by means of this maintain vertically a great distance between themselves and the audience, and they leave no doubt in anyone's mind concerning the difference in their rank and that of the audience. Their obvious aim is to make it clear that their position and rank is vastly higher than that of the members of the audience. Then, the one who is the highest ranking, the man at the very top of the organization enters, and in a tone and manner far removed from that of the lower ranking executives, addresses the audience in gentle tones and on their level! By comparison with his close associates, not only is the President's personality much brighter, but also between the highest ranking member, the President, and the lowest ranking members present there is a feeling of intimacy and familiarity. In this way, by manipulating the psychological distance they create familiarity and authority...."
I happened upon a rare glimpse at The new human Revolution, a passage from Volume 10 written under Ikeda's name describing himself, the fictional Shi'nichi:
"They felt as if they had glimpsed part of this young leader's mind for the first time, a mind amazingly profound for his age. They simply marveled and heartily agreed with him."
Just before that , the other young men were bumbling and confused while our great hero was steadfast in his ability to be right in every action. Sometimes attributing it to daimoku or following his mentor, but nevertheless getting it right.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
tsukimoto
()
Date: September 08, 2011 07:51PM
Quote
simplify
Shroeder says:
"Yes, I've not only planned a scam, I actually pulled it off.
There was a literary organization that called itself THE WORLD POETRY SOCIETY
INTERCONTINENTAL. They took advantage of young hopeful writers by offering to
publish their work - but for a considerable fee. They made big claims about how
publication in their anthologies would promote a young writer's career, when in fact
nobody in the writing industry took their publications at all seriously because they'd
publish anyone, as long as the person paid the fees."
.....Schroeder then goes on to describe the details of the scam.
So it looks like the WPSI is an obscure and somewhat dodgy one man band publisher in India, under the PATRONAGE of (ie. paid for by) DR DAISAKU IKEDA, World Poet Laureate, of course. Classy.[/quote
Simplify, thanks for doing this research! When I was younger, I got taken in by a similar scam. One of the magazines I read had an announcement of a poetry contest. I sent in some of my own poems -- and later, got a letter from this organization (don't remember the name) telling me that I had placed as a finalist. The letter went on to say, that the best poems, including mine, would be published in an anthology, which I could buy for some inflated price. I bought the anthology -- and reading through it, saw the scam. Most of the poetry was awful!
This organization sent me letters for a long time, which I threw in the trash. They kept telling me that I had a real talent, and they wanted to see more of my work. If I'd sent in more work, of course, I'd then have the opportunity to buy more anthologies of bad poetry. The organization also had poetry conventions -- where the aspiring poet could have the chance to read their poetry to an audience of other aspiring poets, and win fake "awards" that would, of course, mean nothing in the real literary world. Of course, you'd pay a lot to go to this convention.
It's a money-making machine. This organization is selling hopeful writers a lie -- pay for the anthologies and the conventions and the people can believe that they're successful writers -- when in fact, they're not. It's cruel, exploiting people's dreams for profit.
Why am I not surprised that SGI would be involved with something like this?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2011 07:53PM by tsukimoto.
Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by:
simplify
()
Date: September 08, 2011 10:44PM
Hi Tsukimoto,
You might want to take a look at the scam that Shroeder perpetrated on WPSI - it is quite amusing, involving WPSI sending anthologies of nonsense German poetry to Universities all over the United States.
Like you I'm not surprised that SGI is involved with some sleazy publication company, set-up to get money from naive aspiring authors.
What is truly horrible, though is that Ikeda bought himself/awarded himself the nonsense title of World Poet Laureate. What is even worse, is that SGI-UK printed that he is 'World Poet Laureate' under the "poem" they reprinted earlier this year in souvenir booklets to commemorate the anniversary of 50 years of SGI in Europe.
I had quite good feelings towards the staff at Taplow Court (the main United Kingdom headquarters), thinking that they were sincere Buddhists who are unaware that they are working for a cult. However, after seeing them do this, I'm highly disillusioned. How can they have so much admiration for a man who seems to be suffering from a full blown narcissistic personality disorder?
You might want to take a look at the scam that Shroeder perpetrated on WPSI - it is quite amusing, involving WPSI sending anthologies of nonsense German poetry to Universities all over the United States.
Like you I'm not surprised that SGI is involved with some sleazy publication company, set-up to get money from naive aspiring authors.
What is truly horrible, though is that Ikeda bought himself/awarded himself the nonsense title of World Poet Laureate. What is even worse, is that SGI-UK printed that he is 'World Poet Laureate' under the "poem" they reprinted earlier this year in souvenir booklets to commemorate the anniversary of 50 years of SGI in Europe.
I had quite good feelings towards the staff at Taplow Court (the main United Kingdom headquarters), thinking that they were sincere Buddhists who are unaware that they are working for a cult. However, after seeing them do this, I'm highly disillusioned. How can they have so much admiration for a man who seems to be suffering from a full blown narcissistic personality disorder?
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