@Rothaus, welcome back! I have missed you. I was starting to wonder what happened to you. Your posts and recommendations were an important part of my recovery from SGI last summer. I don't have any info re: membership in SGI these days but earlier posts will show you some new participants in this forum. @tsukimoto who wrote, "SGI does this quite a lot: sponsors all of these organizations that make no mention of being affiliated with SGI...they're for the arts, for anti-violence initiatives, "peace studies," the environment, educating youth. If you don't know the rhetoric -- or who SGI leaders are -- you have no idea that the organization is linked to SGI. With that link that Nichijew posted, "Ian McIlrath" and the "Victory over Violence" campaign are just about the only clues that "Art for Peace" is linked with SGI. There's the Spirit of Knowledge Academy (Soka) in Worcester, Massachusetts, possibly the Barack Obama Charter School in Los Angeles, the Institute of Oriental Philosophy, the Toda Institute for Global Peace and Policy Research (with pictures of Gandhi, Mother Theresa, and Martin Luther King Jr. on its website), the International Peace Research Association...the list goes on and on. Even to kids' cartoons" Okay, in the interest of fairness, I will post this question: Is it possible that many or all of these apparently secular initiatives are motivated by a sincere desire to make a positive change in the world? I don't think even the most rabid former SGI member or critic would claim SGI is attempting to do something evil or destructive in any way. I know that SGI credits Ikeda with starting the process of Japan's peace with China. The brief research I attempted didn't support or refute this claim. Many important world figures have met with Ikeda as we can see in the pubs or books. SGI is an NGO. The meetings and community centers may be the most diverse gatherings of people you will see anywhere. I was told this by a Roman Catholic priest friend who came to a meeting with me as a guest. He had lived on four continents by then and had conducted mass in 5 languages, including Zulu! Although he was not impressed with the content of the meeting, he was impressed by the community itself. In fact he briefly considered trying the practice. Grudgingly, he admitted that SGI benefits by learning from the mistakes of other religious organizations, thereby making them look trouble-free(remember, this is simply how he saw it) and welcoming of all. Finally, I have not experienced a religious practice as powerful as chanting daimoku. Therefore I ask: Even with its flaws and when compared to others that are striving, is SGI that bad?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2011 10:27PM by doubtful.

Quote
doubtful
SGI is an NGO.

I'd be wary about being impressed by SGI's UN NGO status. The Unification Church ("the moonies") is also an NGO according to Rick Ross's post on this site http://www.cultnews.com/?cat=72 and scroll down:

"Archive for Moonies / Unification Church

05.13.04 NPR: News or “cult” infomercial?

Posted in Moonies / Unification Church, Soka Gakkai, Japanese Sects at 2:50 pm by Rick Ross

......The broadcast also touted SGI’s status as a UN NGO (non-governmental organization).

Rev. Moon of the Unification Church also boasts UN NGO status, but as he knows such recognition can essentially be bought by paying dues and generally lubricating that international body financially."

I checked out the The Unification Church website [www.familyfed.org] and it says it "has been a registered NGO in the country since 1997."

There seems to be no limit to the whitewashing & prestige wealthy cults can buy (with the hard earned contributions of their members)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2011 11:46PM by simplify.

Quote
doubtful
is SGI that bad?

where does bad begin? where does it end?
do not mix the social warmth experienced with whitewashing SGI
the bad is in my books unbuddhist teachings, defamation of other faiths and those who left. not even mention leader cult - not my cup of tea.

SGI already fails on two of the supposed qualities an NGO has to come up with.
1.financial transparency
2.democratic structures
3.religious intolerance
Someone would have to fight this through in the UN though or even bring it to their attention not any of us have the funds to do that though. Again its the press that that could really get this issue out to the public.

SGI can easily manipulate the UN committees on that level.
Most votes are for sale...wink wink.
Or for trade.

And under "religious freedom" any large group can get that status.

SGI is really bad, its a global cult.

Not the local folks meeting at someone's house, most of those folks are well intentioned.
But the people running SGI, Ikeda and his minions. That have made billions.

SGI seems to be the richest cult in the world.

Quote
doubtful
@tsukimoto who wrote, "SGI does this quite a lot: sponsors all of these organizations that make no mention of being affiliated with SGI...they're for the arts, for anti-violence initiatives, "peace studies," the environment, educating youth. If you don't know the rhetoric -- or who SGI leaders are -- you have no idea that the organization is linked to SGI. With that link that Nichijew posted, "Ian McIlrath" and the "Victory over Violence" campaign are just about the only clues that "Art for Peace" is linked with SGI. There's the Spirit of Knowledge Academy (Soka) in Worcester, Massachusetts, possibly the Barack Obama Charter School in Los Angeles, the Institute of Oriental Philosophy, the Toda Institute for Global Peace and Policy Research (with pictures of Gandhi, Mother Theresa, and Martin Luther King Jr. on its website), the International Peace Research Association...the list goes on and on. Even to kids' cartoons" Okay, in the interest of fairness, I will post this question: Is it possible that many or all of these apparently secular initiatives are motivated by a sincere desire to make a positive change in the world? I don't think even the most rabid former SGI member or critic would claim SGI is attempting to do something evil or destructive in any way.

Doubtful, I'm sure that many SGI members are well-intentioned, idealistic people who want to make positive change in the world. My question is, "Why are they not more open about their connection with SGI?"

The Spirit of Knowledge Academy in Massachusetts, for example, makes no mention of its affiliation with SGI. Well, fine, would a religious organization be able to get state money to open a charter school, probably not. Their initial application mentioned "Daisaku Ikeda, a Japanese educator and writer." Now, if you go to the Massachusetts Department of Education website, all mention of Ikeda has been deleted. Why?

Dr. Majid Tehranian, director of the Institute of Oriental Philosophy, and Dr. George Wolfe, director of Peace Studies at Ball University in Indiana, have mentioned, when pressed, that their organizations received "....some funding from a Buddhist group." "Some funding from a Buddhist group," my foot! The organizations were funded and created by SGI!

The same is true for the performing group that Nichijew posted a link to...no mention of SGI. They do mention "vov," which, if you are familiar with SGI, means, the SGI "Victory over Violence" campaign. There is a link to the VOV campaign. If you click on that link, and read the write-up, I believe that SGI is mentioned somewhere near the end.

The Liberty Bell campaign in the 80's, where SGI youth division members were bringing a replica of the Liberty Bell to schools -- again, if pressed, members admitted that they were part of "NSA, a peace organization."

My question is -- these groups were created and funded by SGI. So why don't they just say so? Education, peace, patriotism, anti-violence -- these are all postive things. Why wouldn't SGI want to be openly linked to that? Why wouldn't they want good publicity?

This is all very cleverly done. SGI does not deny a connection with these groups -- and yet, unless someone knows SGI's buzzwords, unless people know things like what Victory over Violence is.....they won't realize that SGI is connected with these activities and groups.

As Anticult has said, SGI is VERY wealthy -- and yet it's almost unheard of in most parts of the United States. This was no accident. An organization doesn't make that much money from happenstance and dumb luck; it takes a well-planned, long-range strategy. This policy of flying under the radar is deliberate -- and comes from the most senior levels of SGI. What is the long-range goal here? More wealth and power for SGI. We should be asking what it is that SGI plans to do with their wealth and power.

@tsukimoto and The Anticult who wrote: "As Anticult has said, SGI is VERY wealthy -- and yet it's almost unheard of in most parts of the United States. This was no accident. An organization doesn't make that much money from happenstance and dumb luck; it takes a well-planned, long-range strategy. This policy of flying under the radar is deliberate -- and comes from the most senior levels of SGI. What is the long-range goal here? More wealth and power for SGI. We should be asking what it is that SGI plans to do with their wealth and power." Yes, I think the question remains does this make SGI particularly more remarkable than other religious organizations? Okay, they should be more transparent about their funding of certain secular initiatives. However, isn't this long term strategy of theirs simply pragmatism? Furthermore, there appears to be a hostility toward them simply because SGI is wealthy. I do have to ask everyone, why are you all demanding that SGI be poor? That's what the message appears to be. The Mormon church is rich. The Roman Catholic Church is rich. Scientology is rich. These are just the ones that come to mind immediately. Look, I am not looking to rescue SGI or to return to it. However, I do feel it necessary to be fair to an organization that is trying to do more than survive in the 21st century. I agree with everyone's point that the local members are well-intentioned people. They are not evil or greedy. I simply want to make the point that people shall continue to support religious organizations regardless of how much dirt they hear about them. With that in mind I simply don't see SGI as more remarkably bad than other organizations out there and I recognize the role those organizatons play in people's lives.

Quote
doubtful
@tsukimoto and The Anticult who wrote: "As Anticult has said, SGI is VERY wealthy -- and yet it's almost unheard of in most parts of the United States. This was no accident. An organization doesn't make that much money from happenstance and dumb luck; it takes a well-planned, long-range strategy. This policy of flying under the radar is deliberate -- and comes from the most senior levels of SGI. What is the long-range goal here? More wealth and power for SGI. We should be asking what it is that SGI plans to do with their wealth and power." Yes, I think the question remains does this make SGI particularly more remarkable than other religious organizations? Okay, they should be more transparent about their funding of certain secular initiatives. However, isn't this long term strategy of theirs simply pragmatism? Furthermore, there appears to be a hostility toward them simply because SGI is wealthy. I do have to ask everyone, why are you all demanding that SGI be poor? That's what the message appears to be. The Mormon church is rich. The Roman Catholic Church is rich. Scientology is rich. These are just the ones that come to mind immediately. Look, I am not looking to rescue SGI or to return to it. However, I do feel it necessary to be fair to an organization that is trying to do more than survive in the 21st century. I agree with everyone's point that the local members are well-intentioned people. They are not evil or greedy. I simply want to make the point that people shall continue to support religious organizations regardless of how much dirt they hear about them. With that in mind I simply don't see SGI as more remarkably bad than other organizations out there and I recognize the role those organizatons play in people's lives.

Doubtful, your points are right on--the wealth of the Mormon and Roman Catholic churches, and Scientology, cannot not disputed. And yes, people will continue to support, regardless of dirt. The push from the SGI in the last year for "sustaining contributions", i.e. auto-deducts from bank accounts, the over-lying message being "we need to keep up the community centers and keep the lights on"....crying the Poorhouse. Which is crying foul. The SGI has more than a comfortable cushion to keep these things alive. Members have been kept in the dark, and some don't particularly care, even some leaders I've talked to, about the net worth. They will keep contributing, and many say they get benefits back in their lives for doing so. Others not so much, but they keep it up.

comes in handy that when asking for financial transpareny is being gergarded as a lack of faith .... uh how evil.

Some people are so blind even a cornea transplant wouldn't help them. Some people are so ignorant that a cadry of private tutors couldn't help them to understand. But I will try. Nichiren Daishonin taught, "A true priest is one who desires and is satisfied with little." Nichiren lived in a dilapidated hut, wearing only a robe in the dead of winter, living off of grass, brachen, and tubors for months at a time, year after year, and yet, he never for a moment failed to propagate the teachings. Shakyamuni Buddha only had two robes and a begging bowl. Food, clothing, shelter, and medicines is all we need to live in this world and to continue to persue our Buddhist faith and practice. Please tell me how the Tokyo Fuji Art Museum, thousand dollar Ikeda Gucci shoes, or the Treasures of the Vatican, fits into the Buddhist model. Please tell me how hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in individual salaries [the salaries of more than two hundred executive leaders of the Soka Gakkai], fits into Shakyamuni Buddha's and Nichiren's model of the Buddhist faith. Earning exorbitant salaries in order to teach the Buddhist Law that Shakyamuni Buddha, Nichiren Daishonin, you, and I did [do] for free, is exploiting the Law and the people for self interest and personal gain. You can't rationalize it. You are defending the indefensible and this is but one criticism of the shameless Soka Gakkai cult. Wake up!

Mark



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2011 04:01AM by Nichijew.