Never had a sustained practice. My wife, however, is still a member. She's had the same Gohonzon since before we were married. We have a much spiffier Budzidon though!

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Nichijew

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Findingmywaytoday

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ScoobyDooby
You know, I used to enjoy reading and ocassionally participating in this forum. I have a very difficult situation at home for which the SGI is at the forefront. Many of the people who have posted here since I joined have given me a great deal of insight into the organization and its destructive ways. They don't appear to be around much anymore. Recently, it seems most of the discussion concerns "how I can continue my practice without the SGI" or "how can we save Nicherin Buddhism from the SGI" with little discussion on the cult of SGI. This makes me uncomfortable participating here.

Anyhow, it's not my point to offend anyone just felt the need to state my concerns. I hope to see a return to what the forum was when it focused on "former cult members and affected families".

Scoob

I was wondering if you are someone who has kept your Gohonzon. If so, is it still enshrined? I am just wondering because I know some people here have kept it up, and perhaps others have returned it. I don't know how long you were in the SGI. I was just curious to see if you are a person who has kept it, or returned it..as I go back and forth on what to do about this.

If you want to break with the SGI then it should be a clean and complete break. There are 130 Gohonzon and, at least 30 complete [Ten World] Gohonzon inscribed by Nichiren Daishonin that you can download, print and frame or mount on a blank wall scroll. Return your Gohonzon to SGI or respectfully burn it while chanting the Jiga-ge and the Daimoku.

Nichijew

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backnforth
There is a new definition of the Gakkai Spirit!!!

Who can guess what the Gakkai spirit has been all these years? I want to see if I remember right by seeing what you'all think.

Well, the new definition is "The Gakkai spirit of . . . . . . you guessed it . . Oneness of Mentor/Disciple"

Wow, isn't that great how SGI can just randomly change concepts to fit the current agenda?

When are people going to wake up?? What does it take??

But ya know, when you believe in turnover the way the SGI does - turnover of members, turnover of leaders (fewer to recount SGI's history), then so few can really notice the subtle changes as they continue to chart their course toward the next phase, after Ikeda is gone, and he suddenly becomes the next true Buddha.

Will the many mindless members notice then?

They probably will totally accept Mr. Ikeda as the next True Buddha, no questions. Which will please him to no end, I'm sure. It's what he seems to have been gunning for, from the beginning.

I am waiting for the day when NMRK will be replaced by "Sensei-Ikeda Is Soo Great! Sensei-Ikeda is Sooo Great!"

Hello everyone,

I would like to thank all of you guys for sharing your experiences. I've been a member for 4 years now and lately things began to feel weird. So I went to check things out on the internet and I came across this forum.

A few of your posts have been real eye-openers to me. One of you guys mentioned the leadership thing which is true I think. When I was only 22 years old and at that time I've been a member for only one year, some of them really kept pushing me into leadership positions and of course I had no sort of qualification for that. Besides being a young idealistic man with tears in his eyes everytime I heard anything about how great SGI was. So luckily I usually declined because of shitloads of other things I had to do in my life but that's not the point.

Another thing that keeps bugging me is the aforementioned split. It feels to weird to me to think about having chanted to a Gohonzon which was obviously altered.

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You've made some great points. We certainly did become arrogant, didn't we? Thinking that we were so superior to every one else. Thinking that they had no control over their lives like we did. Thinking that they couldn't really handle the bad things in their lives like we could.

This is so true! How can a buddhist possibly become that arrogant? Aside from the first few weeks of practice, the only thing people were really concerned about is problems and concerns of other SGI members. Not so much of those who are not. That's really quite terrible.

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"So...has SGI supported you? If so, how? If SGI did/does support you -- is that support worth what you might have lost or given up to be a member?"

Well I actually enjoyed the time here you know. I've made quite a few friends, really good friends that would listen to me and be there whenever I needed it. That is the support I've been given. Of course there has always been the possibility of talking to any kind of leader, district leader, department leader but I don't have to tell you what their answer was and ah cmon I'm gonna do it anyway: "Chant! More! FIGHT for it! Fight and chant! More! FIGHT!!!11"

This is an attitude that everyone needs to learn and develop in his life. Totally agree. But this can and will not be the answer for everything. This fighting and never resting attitude is something I also find in the daily encouragements. And this is a very important part for me because I have found that there will be no peace without true compassion and especially kindness. That's a big word for me. Kindness. In that time in SGI I've never heard of anyone who learned how to be kind and share true compassion. As far as I am concerned I don't think any path without kindness can truly lead to peace. So when I open the daily encouragements, and there are so many versions but it doesn't really matter, I read the name Ikeda a lot and read mostly very harsh speech. So I decided this will not be my path to peace.

Speaking of daily encouragements, I'm not so sure about this one, but here it goes. I think about two years ago I was attending a meeting and someone read an encouragement, it was an english version which is not so common for us to hear because I live in Austria. It was an encouragement that stated the spirit of the SGI would actually make it a buddha. It said people would actually talk about "Buddha Soka Gakkai" in the future. I would like your opinion about this because this talk seems to reek of arrogance and might and whatsoever. I don't want to offend anyone but really it sounds strange to me so please comment.

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...I never signed up to idolize a person...

I think all of you said so much about this already but this sentence is so true and at the same time funny, it's so good I had to quote it once more.

Best regards

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Ogi
Hello everyone,

I would like to thank all of you guys for sharing your experiences. I've been a member for 4 years now and lately things began to feel weird. So I went to check things out on the internet and I came across this forum.

A few of your posts have been real eye-openers to me. One of you guys mentioned the leadership thing which is true I think. When I was only 22 years old and at that time I've been a member for only one year, some of them really kept pushing me into leadership positions and of course I had no sort of qualification for that. Besides being a young idealistic man with tears in his eyes everytime I heard anything about how great SGI was. So luckily I usually declined because of shitloads of other things I had to do in my life but that's not the point.

Another thing that keeps bugging me is the aforementioned split. It feels to weird to me to think about having chanted to a Gohonzon which was obviously altered.

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You've made some great points. We certainly did become arrogant, didn't we? Thinking that we were so superior to every one else. Thinking that they had no control over their lives like we did. Thinking that they couldn't really handle the bad things in their lives like we could.

This is so true! How can a buddhist possibly become that arrogant? Aside from the first few weeks of practice, the only thing people were really concerned about is problems and concerns of other SGI members. Not so much of those who are not. That's really quite terrible.

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"So...has SGI supported you? If so, how? If SGI did/does support you -- is that support worth what you might have lost or given up to be a member?"

Well I actually enjoyed the time here you know. I've made quite a few friends, really good friends that would listen to me and be there whenever I needed it. That is the support I've been given. Of course there has always been the possibility of talking to any kind of leader, district leader, department leader but I don't have to tell you what their answer was and ah cmon I'm gonna do it anyway: "Chant! More! FIGHT for it! Fight and chant! More! FIGHT!!!11"

This is an attitude that everyone needs to learn and develop in his life. Totally agree. But this can and will not be the answer for everything. This fighting and never resting attitude is something I also find in the daily encouragements. And this is a very important part for me because I have found that there will be no peace without true compassion and especially kindness. That's a big word for me. Kindness. In that time in SGI I've never heard of anyone who learned how to be kind and share true compassion. As far as I am concerned I don't think any path without kindness can truly lead to peace. So when I open the daily encouragements, and there are so many versions but it doesn't really matter, I read the name Ikeda a lot and read mostly very harsh speech. So I decided this will not be my path to peace.

Speaking of daily encouragements, I'm not so sure about this one, but here it goes. I think about two years ago I was attending a meeting and someone read an encouragement, it was an english version which is not so common for us to hear because I live in Austria. It was an encouragement that stated the spirit of the SGI would actually make it a buddha. It said people would actually talk about "Buddha Soka Gakkai" in the future. I would like your opinion about this because this talk seems to reek of arrogance and might and whatsoever. I don't want to offend anyone but really it sounds strange to me so please comment.

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...I never signed up to idolize a person...

I think all of you said so much about this already but this sentence is so true and at the same time funny, it's so good I had to quote it once more.

Best regards

Welcome Ogi. In Buddhism, not to mention the Buddhism based on the Lotus Sutra, there are Three Treasures. Since SGI confuses even something as simple and fundamental as the Three Treasures, how can you accept their views on M/D, 3000 Worlds In a Momentary Existence of Life, the nature of the Object of Devotion, the purpose of the Buddhist faith, the importance of loving kindness, etc.?

Nichijew

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KittyLuv

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tsukimoto
Anticult, your chanting-addict friend reminds me of a former friend of mine who's heavily involved in SGI. I went on vacation once with her, and another friend of ours who isn't an SGI member. My SGI friend just became extremely anxious, perhaps from being away from home and in a strange place. We were at this beautiful beach -- and all she wanted to do was sit in the motel room, very withdrawn and irritable, curtains drawn, and chant for hours. Our non-SGI friend and I tried to get her to come out and do things with us, and she refused. All she wanted to do was sit in that motel room and chant. She'd come out for meals and that was about it. So, the other girl and I just went out without her and had fun...what were we going to do?

This is really sad. I talked to a lot of people suffering from anxiety in the course of my healing, I noticed that isolation was a common theme, and I was no stranger to that. I can see why chanting would feed into this. I'm very grateful that I had people that were pushing me to get back out into life. There seemed to be a lot of anxious people in SGI and my SGI "mentor" would tell me stories about these various members of the group that I was in and their various conditions -- this one has depression, that one has anxiety -- and they had been in SGI for years. I said, wow, that's amazing. If they've been chanting all this time why haven't they gotten better? Her answer: They're doing it wrong. They don't attend enough meetings and they're not chanting with determination to overcome their fundamental darkness.

(I'm coming into this a bit late)
That was a common thing to tell members who had any kind of illness--"they needed to attend all the meetings, give more money to the organization instead of buying necessary medication such as oxygen,...." I know someone who died because she did exactly that....
Nichiren Daishonin took medicine given to him by Shijo Kingo when he needed it.

Tennpeach, welcome to the board! You said you know someone who died as a result of following SGI suggestions not to take her medication. This statement would be more powerful if you gave her name and told her life story, who she was, how long she practiced with SGI and so on. It's time for the world and for Japanese and American governments to realize that people actually die because of SGI. We have to start coming up with actual facts and statistics about how many people died because they followed SGI's advice not to take their medication; how many people became homeless, because they gave their last money and property to SGI; how many people lost their jobs, because SGI talked to their bosses and defamed them; how many families were destroyed, because SGI completely brainwashed one of the spouses, which led to divorce. Would be nice to have more information from The Victims Of Soka Gakkai Association, which is a Japanese organization of more 10 thousand members, but unfortunately they have very little information on their english-language website, and we can't read their Japanese sites, because there is a language barrier.

@Ogi who wrote, "It was an encouragement that stated the spirit of the SGI would actually make it a buddha. It said people would actually talk about "Buddha Soka Gakkai" in the future." Welcome to this forum. I look forward to your posts. For just about all of my 21 years with SGI I would avoid people or resources critical of SGI. However, for much of that time using the internet was not possible or probable in my case. Nowadays forums like this one allow people to make much more informed choices and this will not help SGI at all. All the Ikeda worship will not play anywhere but Japan, in any meaningful sort of way. Do they really believe that what the world really needs is to know how special Ikeda is? How would this change anything, really? For most of my 21 years, I would have been nervous or terrified about indulging in criticisms of SGI out fear of bad consequences, despite the fact that I fancied myself a critical thinker. Now I see that it was cult mentality to be so rational in attacking other faiths, but to be conveniently rational in upholding Nichiren Buddhism and SGI's version of it. Finally, Ogi you were right about the "Buddha Soka Gakkai." I was told this by a high ranking senior leader and I am sure it was mentioned in Living Buddhism. At the time I didn't give it much thought, but now I see more reason to be through with SGI. There's something desperate, ultra worldly, and self-serving about this imminent concept. If it's already in the works, surely some people are buying it already. I won't say that I am ashamed of my time with SGI, but RTE, Gandhi-King-Ikeda, honorary doctorates, and all the Ikeda worship sold as "oneness of blah blah blah" drove me out. I simply don't tell anyone I was ever a part of it, although I still identify as Buddhist. This forum helped me solidify the reasons for my departure with even more evidence. As I continue studying Shakyamuni's teachings, I marvel at how SGI avoids all this substance and offers up mentor/disciple, the same 5-6 goshos, and other redundancies. Buddhism is so large, so fascinating, and so NOT what SGI serves up. I just wish they would own up to that and stop calling themselves Buddhist. I liked a lot of things about SGI, but it is not a Buddhist organization.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2011 12:59PM by doubtful.

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doubtful
@Ogi who wrote, "It was an encouragement that stated the spirit of the SGI would actually make it a buddha. It said people would actually talk about "Buddha Soka Gakkai" in the future." Welcome to this forum. I look forward to your posts. For just about all of my 21 years with SGI I would avoid people or resources critical of SGI. However, for much of that time using the internet was not possible or probable in my case. Nowadays forums like this one allow people to make much more informed choices and this will not help SGI at all. All the Ikeda worship will not play anywhere but Japan, in any meaningful sort of way. Do they really believe that what the world really needs is to know how special Ikeda is? How would this change anything, really? For most of my 21 years, I would have been nervous or terrified about indulging in criticisms of SGI out fear of bad consequences, despite the fact that I fancied myself a critical thinker. Now I see that it was cult mentality to be so rational in attacking other faiths, but to be conveniently rational in upholding Nichiren Buddhism and SGI's version of it. Finally, Ogi you were right about the "Buddha Soka Gakkai." I was told this by a high ranking senior leader and I am sure it was mentioned in Living Buddhism. At the time I didn't give it much thought, but now I see more reason to be through with SGI. There's something desperate, ultra worldly, and self-serving about this imminent concept. If it's already in the works, surely some people are buying it already. I won't say that I am ashamed of my time with SGI, but RTE, Gandhi-King-Ikeda, honorary doctorates, and all the Ikeda worship sold as "oneness of blah blah blah" drove me out. I simply don't tell anyone I was ever a part of it, although I still identify as Buddhist. This forum helped me solidify the reasons for my departure with even more evidence. As I continue studying Shakyamuni's teachings, I marvel at how SGI avoids all this substance and offers up mentor/disciple, the same 5-6 goshos, and other redundancies. Buddhism is so large, so fascinating, and so NOT what SGI serves up. I just wish they would own up to that and stop calling themselves Buddhist. I liked a lot of things about SGI, but it is not a Buddhist organization.

Hello, doubtful. "All the Ikeda worship will not play anywhere but Japan, in any meaningful sort of way. Do they really believe that what the world really needs is to know how special Ikeda is?" I am trying to wrap my head around why people's minds get sucked into deifying somebody and wanting to make their mentor's dream their own...fulfilling their mentor's dream. What about their dreams? I have stated it here before and have had some good feedback about it, but I still cannot completely get why..why SGI feels that mentor/disciple worship is going to go down like gravy in America. They seemed to have loosened that grip back in the 90's, but now, as we all know, it is back with a vengence. How unappealing. The marketing strategy for the US is pretty darn lame, if it wants to widely spread kosen-rufu here. They've really dropped a ball in their mission to overtake the Western Hemisphere. It ain't going to happen.

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Shavoy

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doubtful
@Ogi who wrote, "It was an encouragement that stated the spirit of the SGI would actually make it a buddha. It said people would actually talk about "Buddha Soka Gakkai" in the future." Welcome to this forum. I look forward to your posts. For just about all of my 21 years with SGI I would avoid people or resources critical of SGI. However, for much of that time using the internet was not possible or probable in my case. Nowadays forums like this one allow people to make much more informed choices and this will not help SGI at all. All the Ikeda worship will not play anywhere but Japan, in any meaningful sort of way. Do they really believe that what the world really needs is to know how special Ikeda is? How would this change anything, really? For most of my 21 years, I would have been nervous or terrified about indulging in criticisms of SGI out fear of bad consequences, despite the fact that I fancied myself a critical thinker. Now I see that it was cult mentality to be so rational in attacking other faiths, but to be conveniently rational in upholding Nichiren Buddhism and SGI's version of it. Finally, Ogi you were right about the "Buddha Soka Gakkai." I was told this by a high ranking senior leader and I am sure it was mentioned in Living Buddhism. At the time I didn't give it much thought, but now I see more reason to be through with SGI. There's something desperate, ultra worldly, and self-serving about this imminent concept. If it's already in the works, surely some people are buying it already. I won't say that I am ashamed of my time with SGI, but RTE, Gandhi-King-Ikeda, honorary doctorates, and all the Ikeda worship sold as "oneness of blah blah blah" drove me out. I simply don't tell anyone I was ever a part of it, although I still identify as Buddhist. This forum helped me solidify the reasons for my departure with even more evidence. As I continue studying Shakyamuni's teachings, I marvel at how SGI avoids all this substance and offers up mentor/disciple, the same 5-6 goshos, and other redundancies. Buddhism is so large, so fascinating, and so NOT what SGI serves up. I just wish they would own up to that and stop calling themselves Buddhist. I liked a lot of things about SGI, but it is not a Buddhist organization.

Hello, doubtful. "All the Ikeda worship will not play anywhere but Japan, in any meaningful sort of way. Do they really believe that what the world really needs is to know how special Ikeda is?" I am trying to wrap my head around why people's minds get sucked into deifying somebody and wanting to make their mentor's dream their own...fulfilling their mentor's dream. What about their dreams? I have stated it here before and have had some good feedback about it, but I still cannot completely get why..why SGI feels that mentor/disciple worship is going to go down like gravy in America. They seemed to have loosened that grip back in the 90's, but now, as we all know, it is back with a vengence. How unappealing. The marketing strategy for the US is pretty darn lame, if it wants to widely spread kosen-rufu here. They've really dropped a ball in their mission to overtake the Western Hemisphere. It ain't going to happen.

Hi Shavoy:

From my perspective, thank goodness for mentor disciple. If SGI were to adopt a more sane approach, many more would be sucked into their web of deceit. Shhh. Don't tell SGI.

Nichijew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2011 12:37PM by Nichijew.

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Nichijew

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Shavoy

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doubtful
@Ogi who wrote, "It was an encouragement that stated the spirit of the SGI would actually make it a buddha. It said people would actually talk about "Buddha Soka Gakkai" in the future." Welcome to this forum. I look forward to your posts. For just about all of my 21 years with SGI I would avoid people or resources critical of SGI. However, for much of that time using the internet was not possible or probable in my case. Nowadays forums like this one allow people to make much more informed choices and this will not help SGI at all. All the Ikeda worship will not play anywhere but Japan, in any meaningful sort of way. Do they really believe that what the world really needs is to know how special Ikeda is? How would this change anything, really? For most of my 21 years, I would have been nervous or terrified about indulging in criticisms of SGI out fear of bad consequences, despite the fact that I fancied myself a critical thinker. Now I see that it was cult mentality to be so rational in attacking other faiths, but to be conveniently rational in upholding Nichiren Buddhism and SGI's version of it. Finally, Ogi you were right about the "Buddha Soka Gakkai." I was told this by a high ranking senior leader and I am sure it was mentioned in Living Buddhism. At the time I didn't give it much thought, but now I see more reason to be through with SGI. There's something desperate, ultra worldly, and self-serving about this imminent concept. If it's already in the works, surely some people are buying it already. I won't say that I am ashamed of my time with SGI, but RTE, Gandhi-King-Ikeda, honorary doctorates, and all the Ikeda worship sold as "oneness of blah blah blah" drove me out. I simply don't tell anyone I was ever a part of it, although I still identify as Buddhist. This forum helped me solidify the reasons for my departure with even more evidence. As I continue studying Shakyamuni's teachings, I marvel at how SGI avoids all this substance and offers up mentor/disciple, the same 5-6 goshos, and other redundancies. Buddhism is so large, so fascinating, and so NOT what SGI serves up. I just wish they would own up to that and stop calling themselves Buddhist. I liked a lot of things about SGI, but it is not a Buddhist organization.

Hello, doubtful. "All the Ikeda worship will not play anywhere but Japan, in any meaningful sort of way. Do they really believe that what the world really needs is to know how special Ikeda is?" I am trying to wrap my head around why people's minds get sucked into deifying somebody and wanting to make their mentor's dream their own...fulfilling their mentor's dream. What about their dreams? I have stated it here before and have had some good feedback about it, but I still cannot completely get why..why SGI feels that mentor/disciple worship is going to go down like gravy in America. They seemed to have loosened that grip back in the 90's, but now, as we all know, it is back with a vengence. How unappealing. The marketing strategy for the US is pretty darn lame, if it wants to widely spread kosen-rufu here. They've really dropped a ball in their mission to overtake the Western Hemisphere. It ain't going to happen.

Hi Shavoy:

From my perspective, thank goodness for mentor disciple. If SGI were to adopt a more sane approach, many more would be sucked into their web of deceit. Shhh. Don't tell SGI.

Nichijew

You know, Nichijew, I didn't think about that! It makes me wonder what tact SGI would take, if they decided to tone down M/D and go more sign-up friendly for America....