Buddha31:

Please refrain from religious preaching and/or advancing a sectarian view or philosophy.

This is against the rules of this message board.

The topic is SGI and not religion or philosophy generally.

You know, I used to enjoy reading and ocassionally participating in this forum. I have a very difficult situation at home for which the SGI is at the forefront. Many of the people who have posted here since I joined have given me a great deal of insight into the organization and its destructive ways. They don't appear to be around much anymore. Recently, it seems most of the discussion concerns "how I can continue my practice without the SGI" or "how can we save Nicherin Buddhism from the SGI" with little discussion on the cult of SGI. This makes me uncomfortable participating here.

Anyhow, it's not my point to offend anyone just felt the need to state my concerns. I hope to see a return to what the forum was when it focused on "former cult members and affected families".

Scoob

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ScoobyDooby
You know, I used to enjoy reading and ocassionally participating in this forum. I have a very difficult situation at home for which the SGI is at the forefront. Many of the people who have posted here since I joined have given me a great deal of insight into the organization and its destructive ways. They don't appear to be around much anymore. Recently, it seems most of the discussion concerns "how I can continue my practice without the SGI" or "how can we save Nicherin Buddhism from the SGI" with little discussion on the cult of SGI. This makes me uncomfortable participating here.

Anyhow, it's not my point to offend anyone just felt the need to state my concerns. I hope to see a return to what the forum was when it focused on "former cult members and affected families".

Scoob

Dear Scoob:

I don't want you to be disappointed. Here's a real kneeslapper for you:

“All contributions, regardless of timing or location, are used to support the faith and practice of SGI-USA members, and to promote the spread of Nichiren Buddhism and the SGI’s philosophy of contributing to peace, culture and education based on Buddhist humanism.” — Adin Strauss CFO SGI-USA

Please note, he never mentions that a significant part of the contributions go to the exorbitant salaries of the top SGI Japanese senior leaders. Adin Strause is a big liar, like mentor, like disciple.

Mark

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ScoobyDooby
You know, I used to enjoy reading and ocassionally participating in this forum. I have a very difficult situation at home for which the SGI is at the forefront. Many of the people who have posted here since I joined have given me a great deal of insight into the organization and its destructive ways. They don't appear to be around much anymore. Recently, it seems most of the discussion concerns "how I can continue my practice without the SGI" or "how can we save Nicherin Buddhism from the SGI" with little discussion on the cult of SGI. This makes me uncomfortable participating here.

Anyhow, it's not my point to offend anyone just felt the need to state my concerns. I hope to see a return to what the forum was when it focused on "former cult members and affected families".

Scoob

Hi, Scooby Dooby.

I don't look at this forum as much as I used to for this very reason. I feel that after I posted some people were somewhat critical. Continuing a practice outside of SGI was the only way, it seemed. That's just my opinion of how this forum has become. Like Scooby, not trying to offend anyone, it's just the way I see it.

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bribri
Hi Shavoy,

Yes, the property near Toronto has a huge center on it worth millions. But in reality these are only a drop in the bucket of their investments. One of the biggest money makers is the SGI run cemetery and funeral services in Japan. I believe they also have a major share in an international Bank and the Mitsubishi corporation. Keep in mind, the gakkai has been able to profit mightily because of their political arm, which has been able to control certain government ministries over the last 40 years.

As far as cults go, such as the church of scientology, the moonies and even the mormons, the wealth of SGI is far beyond what these groups can ever dream of. There was even an article several years ago, when Japan was in a bad economic state, that speculated about a project to build a massive pyramid financed by the Gakkai. It was thought that such a investment like this would help to take Japan out of its depression. However, to be fair, nothing more was heard of it.

Ultimately the Gakkai will fail and become a mere shadow of itself. Your President Lincoln said it best, "...you may fool all of the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

bribri, it is curious to me why more members don't question or don't show concern about the money. Well, long-timers steeped in Gakkai Frames, especially leaders, seem to feel comfortable with the Financial Frame, satisfied with the handling of money. After all, to take advantage of members, to pump them steadily for mo' money, mo' money, mo' money...with no accounting, is a Royal Bad Cause. That's what I thought. I don't trust giving money to a lot of organizations/charities, because I always feel they are padding someone's pockets, more than using it for the ultimate purpose.

So therefore, here was an organization I finally felt comfortable in contributing to! It's all about making the Good Cause!

Your quote from President Lincoln is completely apropo..

Shavoy

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ScoobyDooby
You know, I used to enjoy reading and ocassionally participating in this forum. I have a very difficult situation at home for which the SGI is at the forefront. Many of the people who have posted here since I joined have given me a great deal of insight into the organization and its destructive ways. They don't appear to be around much anymore. Recently, it seems most of the discussion concerns "how I can continue my practice without the SGI" or "how can we save Nicherin Buddhism from the SGI" with little discussion on the cult of SGI. This makes me uncomfortable participating here.

Anyhow, it's not my point to offend anyone just felt the need to state my concerns. I hope to see a return to what the forum was when it focused on "former cult members and affected families".

Scoob

I applaud your honesty with how you feel about the direction the board has taken. I apologize if I have contributed in anyway to making you feel uncomfortable. That has not been my intention, but this post made me think about that. I am not sure what I want to do. Like my name says: I am trying to find my way. I know I am uncomfortable by the SGI for sure. For me, it ends up being all or nothing in regards to SGI/chanting.

I wanted to mention something else here. I remember a leader who said that people might as well stay in the SGI because if they go down to Agape down the street, or any other church, they will face the same difficulties with people, so we might as well stay in the SGI. On one level I agree with her. I only agree with the part that we carry our tendencies with us, that is called being human. Yet, the SGI makes the followers believe that the only way they can overcome these tendencies is by chanting NMRK. I think there are many paths, and this is called life. There are other ways besides chanting to help this sort of thing. This leads me to the next thing, I think if one wants to explore churches, and different spiritual paths, this is wonderful. I really want to separate myself from the SGI, and I don't want to believe things like this anymore.

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Findingmywaytoday

I wanted to mention something else here. I remember a leader who said that people might as well stay in the SGI because if they go down to Agape down the street, or any other church, they will face the same difficulties with people, so we might as well stay in the SGI. On one level I agree with her. I only agree with the part that we carry our tendencies with us, that is called being human. Yet, the SGI makes the followers believe that the only way they can overcome these tendencies is by chanting NMRK.

Findingmywaytoday,

I've heard leaders saying this too, and it's always bothered me. On one hand, yes, a person who is abrasive, timid,inconsiderate or whatever, is going to be that way everywhere -- and SGI, like any other organization, is going to have the usual mix of shy, aggressive, absent-minded, focused, well-meaning, ill-meaning, sincere, insincere, polite, rude, friendly, unfriendly members.

The problem is that this advice does not address the real problem: the structure and atmosphere of SGI. It doesn't address that SGI is a very top-down organization with no accountability to its members. Instead, leaders just say "You'll have the same difficulties in any organization," and that just puts the problem back on you, the member. They're telling you that it's not that SGI has any problems that need to be looked at -- it's that you need to learn to get along with people better! This is the sign of a bad organization, or relationship -- they never are wrong, you always are.

In discussing the structure of SGI let's not forget that "Upside-down pyramid" claim. I've heard it said often by leaders that SGI is the only organization in which the leadership and organization works this way in terms of supporting the members.

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rattyboy
In discussing the structure of SGI let's not forget that "Upside-down pyramid" claim. I've heard it said often by leaders that SGI is the only organization in which the leadership and organization works this way in terms of supporting the members.

So they say....SGI supports the members. My question is, how? What do you feel that you gained from participating in SGI activities? I don't mean from chanting Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, or from the practice of Buddhism -- I'm asking about being in SGI itself. Do you feel that you have gained anything positive from SGI itself -- apart from chanting or learning about Buddhism?

I enjoyed some of the activities and met some interesting people, but that probably would have been true if I'd taken up folk dancing, joined the Sierra Club, or gone to cooking school.

When I joined SGI, neither my personal life nor my professional life were going well. Listening to experiences from other members made me feel hopeful that I could change my life. I was able to get my life going in a more positive direction -- and for years, I thought that this was due to SGI and chanting. Now, I suspect that I would have done so whether I ever heard of SGI, or chanting or not. People who have never heard of SGI have problems and manage to solve them. I was able to make positive changes in my life before I joined SGI.

That's one of the chief negative aspects of SGI -- I fell, without realizing it, into the mindset that everything that happened to me, good, or bad, was somehow related to SGI. Other disadvantages are how SGI took huge blocks of time, and the guilt-tripping, the feeling that I could never do enough for SGI.

So...has SGI supported you? If so, how? If SGI did/does support you -- is that support worth what you might have lost or given up to be a member?

@ScoobyDooby who wrote, " Recently, it seems most of the discussion concerns "how I can continue my practice without the SGI" or "how can we save Nicherin Buddhism from the SGI" with little discussion on the cult of SGI. This makes me uncomfortable participating here." Thanks for reminding us to stay focused. This forum was a tremendous help when I severed my ties with SGI last year. You are right that it now seems like many are trying to maintain the practice and not deal with SGI's cultish qualities. Perhaps you can relate to this. One thing I am grateful for now is the release from the idea that I can control everything. Perhaps I had much of this in my personality to begin with, but SGI certainly encouraged it. The "you can chant for anything" approach may sound good, but truthfully all SGI members learn early on that chanting does not work for everything. One set of stories that sent up red flags for me many years ago involved the weather changing for the better whenever Ikeda was due to speak. I heard several senior leaders making this claim. Other times leaders would get up and disparage certain Christian concepts without actually knowing them. I began to see that there was something wrong with an organization that believes its leader controls the weather and that other beliefs are silly or ridiculous by comparison to Nichiren's. Well, I don't see Nichiren as more enlightened than Jesus and I don't see SGI members being more liberated simply because they chant. The cult mentality is so afraid, so insecure that it must fail to see how ludicrous it is. @tsukimoto who wrote, "That's one of the chief negative aspects of SGI -- I fell, without realizing it, into the mindset that everything that happened to me, good, or bad, was somehow related to SGI. Other disadvantages are how SGI took huge blocks of time, and the guilt-tripping, the feeling that I could never do enough for SGI." I too fell into that mindset, but yet I always had a persistent voice telling me that there was something wrong with an exclusive mindset. Nichiren Daishonin did not have the final say on anything, neither did the Lotus Sutra, nor Shakymuni, nor Jesus etc. The SGI mentality became so embedded in me that I would bristle whenever I would hear someone (anywhere) mention God or Jesus or give credit to either. How in the world did I ever think I was so enlightened to be so arrogant?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2011 12:55PM by doubtful.