Hi Findingmywaytoday,

First of all, what's this bs about human revolution and not facing it? Are they still using that old saw? For pete's sake let it go Findingmywaytoday. This is how far you let down you're own sense of justice and self determination. I've never met any former member of SGI who thinks they've done the wrong thing, unless it was a very young and guilt ridden person. I know, I've been there and done that. Once I quit when I was 22 and suffered enormous guilt for about a year. After a while, I did start to practice again, but on my own. Feeling kind of alone in my own world and just after my marriage, I went back to practice again as a full fledged SGI member, but it was never the same. When I left after the split, it was rough for a few days, but there was this feeling that it was an opportunity for me to reject everything I ever learned about Nichiren Buddhism and start again and that made me feel good. Free at last, as Dr. King said. Free at last. Now after 20 years I am more convinced than ever that this was the correct thing to do.

When you realize that you can never be separated from the Gohonzon and NMRK, attachment to organizations gets put into its proper perspective. Even though leaders will parrot certain maxims, like master and disciple together, follow your mentor, itai doshin, unity, wawagoso and all the rest of it, it is all empty words. The vision of enlightenment is far greater than all of this. Go and read, and read again as often as you can On the Treasure Tower".

Don't waste any more of your precious life, let this go - this attachment is an obstacle of your own mind.

As is said in French, bon courage

bribri

Hi Findingmywaytoday,

Just read your message about being annoyed and wanting to return your Gohonzon. I have a few questions for you:

When did you receive your gohonzon and who is its author?
When did you begin to chant ?
From what source did you learn about Nichiren and his teachings?

Looking forward to hear from you.

bribri

Hi Shavoy,

I want to answer the questions you posed the other day. I work at a college and the term has just come to an end so now I'll have more time to participate on this board.

>> How have some of your ideas about Nichiren Buddhism shifted, if you don't mind another query?

I let go of my ideas on what I thought Buddhism was about may years ago when it became obvious that I had taken for granted all what I had learned without subjecting it to critical thinking. That wasn't an easy thing to do since I started in 69 and had devoured all the so-called study materials that were available. I assumed that gakkai senior leaders had a special experience and understanding of Nichiren Buddhism, but they really didn't. We create in our own minds a dependency on them to guide us and we're asked not to trust our own judgement because our minds are unenlightened and unreliable. They also talk about the role of Ikeda, if not as a Buddha, as some exalted spiritual leader and teacher - you've heard the story before many times. There's no harm in learning anew the basics of Nichiren's teachings. It doesn't mean you have to comprehend the whole damn thing before it can do any good. Nichiren implores us to have faith above all, but he also asks us to study. Beginning with his writings is an excellent way to go.

>>someone proclaimed their belief that P.I. was indeed the Buddha reincarnate, and that did get a few long-time members hot under the collar. They frankly told this person that that was off-base. Follow the Law, not the person. These members are also extremely active with leadership, so that was an interesting, reassuring, if you will, thing to see.

Well it may be reassuring, but I would be more convinced if they would admit that the idea of Ikeda as the true Buddha was condoned by Ikeda and his immediate leadership circle way back in the 60's. In fact there are many myths that should be dealt with. There is the myths that the Gakkai was a peace movement before and during the second world war and that Makiguchi and Toda were persecuted for their pacifists efforts. The Gakkai has rewritten its history to fit the times.

>> You said you participated in France with the temple...do you and your wife participate with the temple in Montreal?

Unfortunately there is not only no temple here, there are no other Nichiren followers that I know of. If there are, I'd love to meet with them. Our closest temple is New York, but I've yet to go.

Hope to hear from you soon Shavoy.

bribri

Quote
bribri
Hi Findingmywaytoday,

Just read your message about being annoyed and wanting to return your Gohonzon. I have a few questions for you:

When did you receive your gohonzon and who is its author?
When did you begin to chant ?
From what source did you learn about Nichiren and his teachings?

Looking forward to hear from you.

bribri

Hi Bribri,

Thanks for your show of support.

My Gohonzon is an SGI Gohonzon. Not sure who authored it.
I began chanting NMRK in Fall 2005, but received Gohonzon in May 2006.
I am not sure what source I started learning about Nichiren and the teachings, I guess SGI.

Hi Finding,

OK, good.

There's a lot of history that may help you, but I wouldn't want to bore you with any of it just now. Perhaps when you're ready.

Buddhism is about becoming a truly happy person just as you are, without having to change. The remarkable revelation in the Daishonin's teaching is just this, that an ordinary person, no matter who they are, or what they may have done wrong, or right, may show in themselves proof that they are a wonderfully bright and shining human able to overcome any of life's obstacles. This is possible because you are, we all are, at our essence no different from the Shakyamuni of the Lotus Sutra, Nam Myoho renge Kyo, nor any of the other Buddhas throughout all space and time. This is a message that Nichiren hammers away at many many times in his writings. Why does he repeat it so often? Because it is a very difficult thing to believe.

From the Daishonin's letter to Abutsubo:

Note - Treasure Tower indicates the Gohonzon.

"In essence, the appearance of the Treasure Tower indicates that the three groups of Shakyamuni's disciples attained enlightenment only when they heard the Lotus Sutra and perceived the Treasure Tower within their own lives. Now Nichiren's disciples are doing the same. In the Latter Day of the Law, there is no Treasure Tower other than the figures of the men and women who embrace the Lotus Sutra. It follows, therefore, that those who chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, irrespective of social status, are themselves the Treasure Tower and likewise they themselves are Taho Buddha. There is no Treasure Tower other than Myoho-renge-kyo. The daimoku of the Lotus Sutra is the Treasure Tower, that is to say, the Treasure Tower is Nam-myoho-renge-kyo."

You may wish to read this over and over again. Think about the line, "In the Latter Day of the Law, there is no Treasure Tower other than the figures of the men and women who embrace the Lotus Sutra."

You can also find many references in his writings warning people not to "look for the Gohonzon" outside themselves. The reason why I am stressing this is that we can get hung up on the Gohonzon as some kind of mystical-magic object. You don't have time for that. Let's just follow what Nichiren asks us to do if we want to realize our most profound and original identities, because this is what it is all about - returning to our true original and enlightened nature. Nichiren says that we have no wisdom to perceive these profound truths, so what we do is to substitute faith for wisdom and chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, everything else is secondary.

Hope this helps Finding.

take care

bribri

btw - I hope you have a copy of the First volume of Nichiren's writings. If not, I think the SGI's latest version looks pretty good.

bribri:

The topic on this thread is SGI.

There is a rule against preaching or promoting a religious point of view.

See [forum.culteducation.com]

These are within the rules that you agreed to before posting here.

Please stay focused on the topic of this thread, which is not religious theology, but rater SGI.

To the moderator,

Excuse me for crossing the line and writing something which the rules don't permit. I can certainly trash the Gakkai as well as anyone else, but I am of the opinion that it is a lost effort. However, I will try to stay within the parameters you've set out.

Brian

I recall a district meeting held sometime in the late 80's at my home in eastern France. A young school teacher, very bright and talkative, was speaking about how great Ikeda was and how he was the leading personality in the world fighting for peace. Her devotion was such that her eyes would fill with tears. She wasn't alone, there seemed to be a lot of women who felt like she did. I thought that their emotions may be getting the better of them and that maybe there was something lacking in their lives - and there was. Turns out that none of them had a good relationship with their fathers, or a dysfunctional one at best. From that time on, I would ask discretely of anyone, when the right moment arrived, if they had a good relationship with Dad and rarely was the answer yes.

Sometimes because of circumstances beyond our control, we need a surrogate mom, or dad, if one of them was missing when we were growing up. This has been a generally understood reality of early development so necessary for us to grow into well balanced individuals. The Pacific war with japan left that country in a deplorable state. There were millions of homeless people. Families were torn apart, massive unemployment was everywhere especially in the countryside. Young people flocked to the cities where there might be a better chance to survive. When they arrived, they were confronted with a new life in cities where they had few connections if any. Meeting up with members of the Soka Gakkai and its strong and charismatic leader, Josei Toda, was just the thing for many allowing them to make some sense out of their lives. The Gakkia became their family and Toda became Dad. Nothing wrong with that. It was a different time and place with different needs to fill.

Do we really know why we join SGI? Maybe we need to find out.

bribri:

"Do we really know why we join SGI? Maybe we need to find out"?

"...none of them had a good relationship with their fathers"?

You seem to be engaging in a bit of victim bashing here and/or amateur psychoanalysis.

People most often join cults through some level of deception. Cult members are often recruited by friends, family or co-workers (i.e. someone they trust) and there are typically recruitment tactics, and techniques employed strategically by various groups.

Subsequently groups called "cults" use thought reform to solidify their hold over members and to retain them.

See [www.culteducation.com]

In various research studies cult members turn out to be no different than a typical cross section of society/backgrounds.

No specific profile has ever been discerned, other than catching people at a typically vulnerable time.

We all have vulnerable times in our lives.

Other than that cult members come from a typical range of family backgrounds (i.e. both functional and dysfunctional), and social, economic, cultural, racial and educational backgrounds.

Trying to label cult members in some way as unusual and/or coming from a certain type of family background is neither factual nor useful here.

Many of the SGI recruits had no idea initially that the organization is seen as an aberrational fringe group by many Buddhists. In this sense they can be seen as mislead during the beginning recruitment process. SGI recruits at first also may have been unaware of the totalitarian nature of the group, its troubled history and more radical beliefs during the introductory phase of recruitment.

I appreciate your remarks RR.

Who is bashing who? I never intended my observations to come across as victim bashing and I don't think there was anything in what I said that merits this categorization. You yourself may just be responding in an habitual fashion to what you're presuming to be the thrust of what I'm saying. As well, I did not use the word cult in reference to SGI.

My own uncle lost his father and mother (my grandparents) before he was 6 and was subsequently raised by his stern and bitter grand grandmother. When the war broke out he enlisted at 16, and even though he saw little action, the military largely filled the space of his missing parents. I wouldn't describe the army as a cult - although I suppose that one could be made that it is, nor would I describe him as a victim. It worked for him in his situation and nothing more can be said about it.

The SGI is highly centered on Ikeda and when I joined he was the de facto father, master, king and el supremo leader of us all. I can think of very few people who were as ***adoring*** of Ikeda as those who came from either broken families, or ones where the father was missing - and that goes for both males and females. Most legitimate religious organizations simple don't match SGI's profile, but yes, many of the so-called cults do share some elements.

Yes, newer members, certainly since the split, aren't aware of the dark history of SGI. But then again, the Gakkai, much like the antiquated communists regimes of the last century (and today's N. Korea), constantly reinvent themselves with little value placed on transparency. This is what I mentioned in a submission I made last week. For me, its an action which invites justified condemnation and NST is just as guilty.