Incidentally, I also have gotten the message from the SGI that either I am for Ikeda as my mentor, and if I don't have him as my mentor, it means I haven't studied hard enough, or gone to enough meetings. This just makes my stomach turn. I find that assumption insulting.

I am wondering how all of you feel about the President Ikeda's lectures. When I used to get the World Tribune, I was most encouraged by the experiences if anything. I didn't understand his lectures, nor was I interested. This came up in a conversation with someone once. She said that his lectures were so encouraging, and wonderful. I asked her if there was anything that she has ever disagreed with in regards to Ikeda, and she said no. She also mentioned in the same breath that SGI is not a cult.

I have been told about the importance of study, study, study. I said that the Gosho was challenging for me to read, but maybe one day. I was told to then buy a book of Ikeda's interpretations of the Gosho. I was told that in the temple, they are not encouraged to study, and that is what is so good about the SGI.

Is that true that in the temple, it is not encouraged to study? I am sure, though, there are no interpretations.

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wakatta1


Japanese men give their paychecks over to the women because it is "customary" and is expected of them. The women expect to be in control of the family expenses because they are expected to be the family's "anchor". Men on the other hand (esp. "Salary-man types") have spent their lives grooming for a position in business, and once they have done that they also have risen to the pinnacle of what Japanese society expects of them (Handing over the pay envelope keeps the women out of their hair). They bury themselves in their work and the women bury themselves in the family. The images of mom, dad and the kids are far less typical than here. Japanese husbands, besides commute times, work long hours, and often return from work to just eat, sleep and turn around and go back to work. Once the kids are old enough to go to school, the Japanese wife has nothing to do with herself besides watch soap operas "hiru gekijo" and have dinner waiting when hubby and family come back home. Kind of like living in an anthill.

Based on what I've seen, the women seem to hate the men for "holding them prisoner" or "robbing them of their youth", and the men hate the women for being controlling and "out of reach" emotionally and physically. There is very little in the way of "partnership" between women and men in japan, and they seem to prefer it that way given how society has arranged itself.

But Japanese people don't make waves! Despite outrageous situations they just "deal with it". Oriental patience plays a big part of it all, and so you see people buried in their outlets.

Men golf, go to the bars, fantasize about being samurai, read nasty manga and bury themselves in their work. Women shop, socialize, rat-hole their money until the day they can dump hubby and do various other "diversions". It is easy to see how a "religious" organization could win its way into the ladies' hearts. It also would provide them with a way to manage hubby as well - make him a Men's Division leader and you know where he is all of the time. MD and WD are segregated so you can even have an expectation that he won't be hitting on other women as well. Women exert a level of control over their "environment" which makes them feel more in control.

This is all pretty cynical I admit but that's how folks over there cope. (And to be fair, here in the US we have similar sorts of things going on too)


Wakatta1

That confirms my idea, that I expressed before, that SGI "targets" lonely people. To be lonely you don't have to be alone. In my case, I was actually alone, when I was shakabukued. But, from what Wakatta said, we can see that a lot of people are married and still lonely. In fact Japanese housewives feel more lonely because they are married. If they were not married, they could probably openly look for a boyfriend, go to parties, hang out, and so on. But they are in "golden" prison. And Japanese husbands, why do they bury themselves in work? What do they want to escape? Their loneliness, of course. So, that's how people become "joiners". Lonely people are ready to join anything, just to avoid their loneliness. So, this kind of people become potential SGI customers. That's why SGI is so successfull in shakabukuing people (they have 12 million). Because SGI is a social organization. When you are SGI member, you feel that you are a part of something big. You feel like you take a drug against loneliness. You even feel like you let go of your own Ego for the sake of something special, for other people. (That's why I felt good after doing volunteer work for SGI). But this is an illusion. What happens is you just become a part of the collective SGI Ego. You are switching from a personal to collective Ego, but all remains the same. Instead of catering to the needs of your own Ego, you are catering to Ego of other people - Ikeda, his generals, SGI country leaders, city leaders, district leaders. Collective Ego can be even more dangerous. It is so-called groupthink. Within groupthink people start doing some crazy things which they would never have done if they were alone. Like going to Santa Monica broadwalk and shakabukuing total strangers. (I did that as a part of SGI volunteer work). I would have never done this alone. Imaging approaching a total stranger and telling him/her about Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. They looked at me like I was a total idiot! People came there to relax, enjoy the sun and the nice day, and oversudden some dude approaches them with some very strange talk, I mean I was lucky they didn't call the police! But I didn't care because my mind was clouded by groupthink. But SGI doesn't cure loneliness. Pretty soon, you start feeling lonely again - within SGI organization, just like Japanese housewives feel lonely in their marriage. Besides, just as Tsukimoto said before, there are no real friends in SGI. There is an illusion of friendship, but that can all quickly come to an end, if you "make a mistake" and fall out of SGI's favor.

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Findingmywaytoday
When I talk to people who have been in the organization for a long time, and still are in the organization, I feel their world is so colored and filtered through their practice. It is like they can't even consider another viewpoint.

I've found this too. Now, we all have our own filters that we see the world through. You can't NOT have a filter. Race, nationality, age, experiences, political beliefs, religion, whatnot give all of us filters -- but I think that the filter that SGI members develop can be very damaging. The insistence that SGI is right, Ikeda is wonderful, and if you disagree, something is wrong with you -- that can really hurt a person, making them disbelieve their own common sense and judgement.

No organization, and no person, is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, even the best people and groups have areas in which they could improve --- but for devout SGI members, the only legitimate opinion anyone can have of SGI must be glowingly positive.

I think, honestly, that this kind of a mind game can confuse a person -- you're told that what you see, feel and know is not real. Humans are social animals; we want to fit in with those around us. I've always been fiercely independent, did well in school....I was so sure that I was not a person who could be manipulated. Since I've left SGI, I've been shocked to see how much of this SGI propaganda actually did sink into my brain...on an unconscious level. I began reading some websites that were critical of SGI, and suddenly began feeling a bit nervous and guilty. As if bad things would happen to me if I even questioned SGI, or as if I were a bad, disloyal person for even questioning. Whoa! WHEN did that notion even get into my head? I don't remember; I was not aware that I did have that belief, consciously or subconsciously. Yet, I did have that belief.

Have I had therapy? Very early in my practice, due to other problems I was having with depression and a broken engagement. My counselor had concerns about my involvement with SGI. I was not willing to listen. One of my friends was also in therapy; her therapist told her that SGI was encouraging magical thinking. My friend, like me, did not listen. My friend and I commiserated that therapists just didn't understand SGI!

I used to wish that I could join another Nichiren sect, but there are none near where I live. I think that part of my motivation was that I'd been so heavily involved in SGI. Even though SGI frustrated me a lot, there were some things that I'd liked about it. Quitting left a gap -- and I wanted another religion to fill the gap. It's like being in a bad relationship. Maybe you fight with him a lot, maybe you don't even love him anymore -- but you just can't imagine life without him.

Having become used to life without SGI -- I no longer feel a gap in my life, and I feel rather cynical about religion. They all say that they are the one true faith, and who really knows?

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Findingmywaytoday
Incidentally, I also have gotten the message from the SGI that either I am for Ikeda as my mentor, and if I don't have him as my mentor, it means I haven't studied hard enough, or gone to enough meetings. This just makes my stomach turn. I find that assumption insulting.

I am wondering how all of you feel about the President Ikeda's lectures.

That was what started raising red flags for me -- the insistence that I must take Ikeda as my mentor. One of my leaders told me, "You just don't understand President Ikeda's greatness!" They put you down if you don't agree. There is only one opinion that one can have of Ikeda, in their minds.

I have not subscribed to the World Tribune in years, so I don't know how it's been lately. After my parakeet died, I had no need for newspapers to line the bottom of the cage. I did like the experiences, hated his poetry, found his speeches good -- for curing insomnia. Try to read one of those suckers and the eyelids get heavy. The head droops.

Frankly, I doubt that Ikeda even writes his speeches. There was a flap years ago when a Colorado journalist, Lisa Jones, revealed that she was asked to ghostwrite a book for Ikeda. She was to write it, and would be paid well, but his name would go on the front cover. Part of the deal is that the real author remains anonymous. Jones broke the rules by coming out with this. As a result, SGI's lawyers threatened her with legal action, and she was forced to shut down her website.

What I do remember about Ikeda's speeches besides boring -- they're very braggy. SGI members are noble, wonderful people because of their special mission for kosen-rufu. That's love bombing. Common tactic in cults. We are so special and wonderful, better than everyone else.

Ikeda boasts even more about himself, how hard he's worked for kosen-rufu, following the expectations of his equally wonderful mentor, Josei Toda. There are lots of quotes from various works of literature, and from famous historical figures, as well as current philosophers and leaders. I guess that that is to remind the reader of how smart and well-read Ikeda is, and how many famous people he knows. The guy's not just on an ego trip, he's on an ego Grand Tour.

Sometimes there's also a mention of evil people who oppose SGI and its wonderful mission to bring peace and joy to the world. Every story has to have a villain; having a common enemy brings people closer together.

Then, there's a very obvious and oversimplified message -- war is bad, peace is good, nuclear weapons are bad...blah blah blah. Who is going to disagree with these things?

The speeches are a nice-sounding, but manipulative word salad...like advertising, like most political speeches, and they work on that level. You start thinking "SGI...world peace..." not "SGI...wealthy corporation..."

In the preceding pages of this thread, even those paid to shill for Ikeda/Gandhi/King for SGI, could not come up with even ONE single thing Ikeda actually ever did for "world peace".

The reality is, that Ikeda has done absolutely nothing.
In fact, as proven in this thread, SGI has massive investments in the billions of dollars in the stock market. And that means direct, or indexed investments by SGI in the weapons of war and death.
Since SGI has billions invested, then in fact, because those are not "ethically" invested, then in fact Ikeda is responsible for more profits from war, oil wars, and the rest of it.

Why doesn't Ikeda-SGI invest ethically? Because those ethical funds make far less return. So it is greed, by Ikeda.
So in fact, Ikeda has done nothing for world peace, and has profited in billions of dollars from the business of war, oil, and selling weapons of war and death.

SGI is closely connected with Mitsubishi as well. [forum.culteducation.com]

Yes, Ikeda wants people to chant chant chant, and not think, perceive, reflect, and research, and open their eyes.

Lotta great posts here the last few days, guys.....

In This week's WT...now it is MANDATORY for new members just getting their Gohonzon to take out subscriptions to the periodicals. No ifs, ands or buts.

Felt that familiar G-A-A-C-K-K yet again.

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Shavoy
Lotta great posts here the last few days, guys.....

In This week's WT...now it is MANDATORY for new members just getting their Gohonzon to take out subscriptions to the periodicals. No ifs, ands or buts.

Felt that familiar G-A-A-C-K-K yet again.

Subscriptions were mandatory, or part of the deal without question back in the late 80's until late '89 or early '90 when one Sunday it was announced that subscriptions would no longer be required. Why? Well, I suspect it was because of an incident a few nights before at one of the community centers in which a priest flew in from another city for a Gohonzon conferral and the only person receiving that night refused at the last second because he did not want to subscribe to the publications. He wanted to practice with the Gohonzon but figured since his housemate had the subscriptions he could borrow them. A leader made the argument that maybe the housemate/sponsor might take the publications with him to work and the publications wouldn't be available to read. (This might be just desperate sales talk rather than cult-like coercion... if there is a difference). It was something short of a shouting match. The new recruit saw through all the BS and did not receive the Gohonzon. The priest had come there for nothing. Anyone remember this? This might have been the last straw after other conflicts.
There was quite some concern about upsetting the priesthood.

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tsukimoto

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Findingmywaytoday
When I talk to people who have been in the organization for a long time, and still are in the organization, I feel their world is so colored and filtered through their practice. It is like they can't even consider another viewpoint.

I've found this too. Now, we all have our own filters that we see the world through. You can't NOT have a filter. Race, nationality, age, experiences, political beliefs, religion, whatnot give all of us filters -- but I think that the filter that SGI members develop can be very damaging. The insistence that SGI is right, Ikeda is wonderful, and if you disagree, something is wrong with you -- that can really hurt a person, making them disbelieve their own common sense and judgement.

No organization, and no person, is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, even the best people and groups have areas in which they could improve --- but for devout SGI members, the only legitimate opinion anyone can have of SGI must be glowingly positive.

I think, honestly, that this kind of a mind game can confuse a person -- you're told that what you see, feel and know is not real. Humans are social animals; we want to fit in with those around us. I've always been fiercely independent, did well in school....I was so sure that I was not a person who could be manipulated. Since I've left SGI, I've been shocked to see how much of this SGI propaganda actually did sink into my brain...on an unconscious level. I began reading some websites that were critical of SGI, and suddenly began feeling a bit nervous and guilty. As if bad things would happen to me if I even questioned SGI, or as if I were a bad, disloyal person for even questioning. Whoa! WHEN did that notion even get into my head? I don't remember; I was not aware that I did have that belief, consciously or subconsciously. Yet, I did have that belief.

Have I had therapy? Very early in my practice, due to other problems I was having with depression and a broken engagement. My counselor had concerns about my involvement with SGI. I was not willing to listen. One of my friends was also in therapy; her therapist told her that SGI was encouraging magical thinking. My friend, like me, did not listen. My friend and I commiserated that therapists just didn't understand SGI!

I used to wish that I could join another Nichiren sect, but there are none near where I live. I think that part of my motivation was that I'd been so heavily involved in SGI. Even though SGI frustrated me a lot, there were some things that I'd liked about it. Quitting left a gap -- and I wanted another religion to fill the gap. It's like being in a bad relationship. Maybe you fight with him a lot, maybe you don't even love him anymore -- but you just can't imagine life without him.

Having become used to life without SGI -- I no longer feel a gap in my life, and I feel rather cynical about religion. They all say that they are the one true faith, and who really knows?

You're right, Tsukimoto...who really does know??? The answer--none of us do. I was out to eat earlier and happened to be sitting across the aisle from two nice ladies who happened to be Jehovah's Witnesses. They knew the waitress and were talking about various stuff, when the opening came for----Shakabuku, Jehovah-Style! I thought, it is the definition of shakabuku, to break, right? Well, the waitress was very nice but was having none of it and did indeed break away. But the ladies sounded so confident and sincere about the Jehovah Frame. It's Absolute. The Right Way. The Only Way.

With all these Right and Only Ways...

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rattyboy

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Shavoy
Lotta great posts here the last few days, guys.....

In This week's WT...now it is MANDATORY for new members just getting their Gohonzon to take out subscriptions to the periodicals. No ifs, ands or buts.

Felt that familiar G-A-A-C-K-K yet again.

Subscriptions were mandatory, or part of the deal without question back in the late 80's until late '89 or early '90 when one Sunday it was announced that subscriptions would no longer be required. Why? Well, I suspect it was because of an incident a few nights before at one of the community centers in which a priest flew in from another city for a Gohonzon conferral and the only person receiving that night refused at the last second because he did not want to subscribe to the publications. He wanted to practice with the Gohonzon but figured since his housemate had the subscriptions he could borrow them. A leader made the argument that maybe the housemate/sponsor might take the publications with him to work and the publications wouldn't be available to read. (This might be just desperate sales talk rather than cult-like coercion... if there is a difference). It was something short of a shouting match. The new recruit saw through all the BS and did not receive the Gohonzon. The priest had come there for nothing. Anyone remember this? This might have been the last straw after other conflicts.
There was quite some concern about upsetting the priesthood.

I did not hear about this, rattyboy...I remember like others here, the mad WT/Seikyo Times Scramble, was that like every month? One word to make the WD tremble: Publications. There was definetely the squeeze put to get them, but I don't remember hearing that as an absolute condition back then. Wow. But they knew pretty much not to push me, so I "got away" with things. They did try to get people who were not members, like some of my family and friends to take them.

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Nichijew

If they did kill anyone, and I have no absolute proof that they do, I have read and heard that both the police and the media are in their pocket. Even in America, there are communities where people who are connected can get away with murder while, if you are not connected and get on the wrong side of the powers that be, you will either do time on trumped up charges, get killed, or disappear. It is not only often futile to go up against these powers [for example, the families of the murder victim against the constable, sheriff, or judge], it can be downright dangerous. Since, for example, in some of the communities in America of which I speak, I have neither absolute proof nor a horse in the race, it isn't worth it to me to make allegations and stir the pot when I could get jailed or killed. Regarding the SGI or one of my own family members, if I had any hard data, I would persue it in a heartbeat. I only know for a fact that there are those in Japan who are afraid of the Soka Gakkai and where there is smoke, there is fire.

Nichijew

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The Anticult
When a sect gets so rich, and is localized in an area, they can have massive influence over the local government and law enforcement.

Sai Baba [forum.culteducation.com] is an example of that. They have over 9 billion in wealth, and have all of the politicians, media, judges, police in their pocket. To the point where murders in the ashram were not investigated, and sexual abuse reports of children were not investigated.
Its obvious they even timed Sai Baba's recent death to happen on Easter Sunday, by pulling the plug, or announcing it on that day, as Sai Baba was in his own private hospital.

Japan is different than India certainly. But since SGI apparently has their own SGI "town" they can wield enormous influence using the wealth and other methods. It seems whenever a sect get big and rich, and then localizes itself in one area, then it comes extremely dangerous, as it can pretty much take over local law enforcement and local judges and politicians.

Something has to be done, as these groups are getting worse every year.
They are tax-free, like Sai Baba and SGI, so they just get richer and richer.
If the trend keeps up, these mega-sects are going to become some of the most powerful organizations in the world, using their wealth and power to do whatever they want, tax-free.
And using local influence peddling to avoid justice.

That is very alarming! Interesting to find out, how many SGI members in Japan are police officers? If SGI recruits enough police officers, they won't have to kill their enemies. They can frame them and lock them up in jail. I am sure it's already happening.