Of course, anyone can chant whatever they want!
Full disclosure, I don't chant NMRK, but did in the past, for a short while.

But deep breathing with a slow release, gives a calm feeling just like chanting.

There have been others who have chanted on their own.
Chanting was not invented by SGI.

But yes, chanting can be used to lure people into SGI.
So each person has to figure out these issues for themselves.
To chant or not to chant.

Most people do not chant, and have good lives. Its a personal decision.

Thank you Anticult, and thank you Nichijew! I really appreciate your feedback. I did not know that about Shijo Kingo. I will have to investigate. I am actually now deciding to look at this transition as not an all or nothing, black or white situation. I can pick and choose what feels best.

I used to think if I stopped chanting, it would hurt the organization and be my way of getting back at them. Why would I want to hurt myself. I think I am coming to the point where I can keep my Gohonzon up if I so chose, chant, but not be apart of the SGI. It just seems like too crazy organization. My goal is to be a freethinker.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2011 02:00PM by Findingmywaytoday.

I had a miracle Testimony of chanting recently.

My DVD player broke, I chanted over it, but it didn't fix it.
So I chanted for a new DVD player, as I didn't want to buy another.

Well, I chanted for several months, 3x a day, and guess what? Last week, someone left a nice DVD player out in the condo building, and so I grabbed it. it works great.

SO CHANTING WORKS!! I got a free DVD player by chanting.



- everything is true in that testimony, other than the chanting! ;-)
I don't chant.
But if I did chant, then I would believe chanting did it. That is the Confirmation Bias. [www.skepdic.com]

In fact, what happened, is the DVD player broke, and things break. (entropy [en.wikipedia.org]
Didn't feel like buying a new DVD player, so I just waited, and used other ones. Then, by fluke happened to see the DVD player before anyone else.

That is the "secret" of 99.999999% of SGI style "chanting".
You focus on something mentally, and then trick yourself into thinking chanting made it happen. It didn't.
You made it happen by your thinking motivating behavior.

Ikeda knows this, but wants to persuade superstitious people about chanting. Frankly, there is no way Ikeda would chant anymore, he was too busy taking ACTION building a billion dollar business called SGI.
Chanting is frankly used, in SGI, to distract and control large masses of people.
Its a total abuse of "chanting" something I noticed long ago, when people were chanting for Mercedes and Rolexes. You know you are in a crazy cult, when you are chanting for a Mercedes and a Rolex.

That is really very interesting, and gives me something to think about. You made a good point. This leads me to another thing:

I do have a question for you, or anyone else who would like to answer:

What is the difference between a low life condition, or hell and depression and/or clinical depression? Is there any difference at all?

Massive difference between being down and clinical depression. [www.webmd.com]
For anyone, best to seek live, in-person advice from trained pro's in that area.

One thing for sure, chanting is not going to cure clinical depression. It would likely make it worse, as its more inaction, and magical thinking, it would probably lead to more depression and feelings of futility?

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The Anticult
Massive difference between being down and clinical depression. [www.webmd.com]
For anyone, best to seek live, in-person advice from trained pro's in that area.

One thing for sure, chanting is not going to cure clinical depression. It would likely make it worse, as its more inaction, and magical thinking, it would probably lead to more depression and feelings of futility?

Okay, so certainly there is a difference and I am aware of it, but do SGI people know the difference? What does it mean exactly when they talk about a low life condition? What does that mean?

No, many SGI people do not know the difference between sadness and clinical depression, and do not have proper knowledge about mental health issues. There are clearly many of them who think SGI-chanting can fix all mental health issues. It can't, unless perhaps its a psychosomatic issue anyway?
But one could give example of SGI people, who kind of drove themselves over the edge, with thinking SGI-chanting was going to fix everything by magic.

With SGI, there is always a difference between what SGI "says" and what SGI "means".
So perhaps someone else can explain what SGI says about low-life-condition.

But clearly, SGI means the human condition. That is, problems, not enough money, health problems, relationship problems, depression, etc. That is called the human condition, everyone has issues of some sort.
SGI, and many other sects, all sell their myth that they can easily fix the human condition, by their chanting, or their meditating, or their seminars, DVD's, etc.

Does it work? No.
Which is great for them, as then you are a customer for life.
And when it doesn't work, they blame you for not chanting hard enough.
So then do more of what doesn't work. Its a Catch-22.

Quote
The Anticult
No, many SGI people do not know the difference between sadness and clinical depression, and do not have proper knowledge about mental health issues. There are clearly many of them who think SGI-chanting can fix all mental health issues. It can't, unless perhaps its a psychosomatic issue anyway?
But one could give example of SGI people, who kind of drove themselves over the edge, with thinking SGI-chanting was going to fix everything by magic.

With SGI, there is always a difference between what SGI "says" and what SGI "means".
So perhaps someone else can explain what SGI says about low-life-condition.

But clearly, SGI means the human condition. That is, problems, not enough money, health problems, relationship problems, depression, etc. That is called the human condition, everyone has issues of some sort.
SGI, and many other sects, all sell their myth that they can easily fix the human condition, by their chanting, or their meditating, or their seminars, DVD's, etc.

Does it work? No.
Which is great for them, as then you are a customer for life.
And when it doesn't work, they blame you for not chanting hard enough.
So then do more of what doesn't work. Its a Catch-22.

Cool, Anticult. I apprecioate your response. It gives me something to think about. How long have you been out of the SGI? For me, I started having my doubts in February 2010. It feels like a semi-lonely path, but on the other hand it is a good path because I am now in the process of finding my truth, and what is true for me, rather than a group dictating it. I am over that.

Anyhow, I am wondering if you know of anyone here who has joined another Nichiren Sect. I am curious about that. I am curious to explore other sects as well, but not cults. Yikes, I hope I don't become involved with another cult.

Quote
Findingmywaytoday

Okay, so certainly there is a difference and I am aware of it, but do SGI people know the difference? What does it mean exactly when they talk about a low life condition? What does that mean?

I think that "a low life condition" is a very general term, like "feel bad." If you feel "bad," you might feel any number of things --- tired, weak, nauseated, in physical pain, tense, guilty, sad, regretful, or afraid. A low life condition simply means that a person is feeling or acting "bad" -- angry, sad, clinically depressed, destructive, irritable, weepy, frustrated, discouraged, apathetic, lovelorn -- basically anything the person saying it wants it to. And if the person saying "You have a low life condition," is an SGI member --- they probably mean "And you need to chant more, do more SGI activities, and get guidance for your low life condition." I think if an SGI member says that you have a low life condition, they're probably trying to manipulate you into being more into SGI.

I was shocked to find that many SGI members advised against taking medication for conditions like clinical depression and anxiety. Certainly, there's the notion that if you do enough chanting, you should be able to fix anything, but there is less prejudice against taking medication for other reasons -- statins for high cholesterol, antibiotics for infection, etc. This is not limited to SGI, however. A Catholic friend of mine -- an educated professional woman -- surprised me when she criticized a relative of hers for taking antidepressants. "If she trusted in Christ, she wouldn't despair!" this woman exclaimed.

I said, "Oh, and you take Simvastatin for your cholesterol! Why don't you just ask God to lower your cholesterol!?" This kind of thinking irritates me! We're not living in the damn 1400's, where people thought you could get a fever because a witch put a spell on you because they had no way of knowing otherwise!

As for chanting....people chanted daimoku 600 years before there even was an SGI. SGI does not own the daimoku or Nichiren Buddhism; you can certainly chant and not be an SGI member. If chanting adds to your life, then chant...if it doesn't add to your life, don't chant and don't worry about it.

As Anticult said, many different religions chant. Buddhists chant, Hindus chant. Christians have their Kyrie Eleison, Gregorian chants, and saying the Rosary, (or any other prayer, or combination of prayers) is also chanting. The repetition of phrases and words regulates breathing and brain waves -- which can feel very calming. Chanting anything can also distract you from thoughts that may be upsetting you -- and if you believe that chanting works, you will interpret anything that happens as proof that the chanting works.

When I was a child, "troll"or "wishnik" dolls were popular -- those ugly little plastic dolls with colorful hair. My friends and I believed that this doll, and especially, stroking the troll doll's hair and making a wish, brought good luck. And we'd talk like that -- this one stroked her troll's hair and she got served the biggest brownie at lunch. That one petted her troll and then went out and scored a home run in kickball! I rubbed mine's hair and found a quarter on the sidewalk. We didn't think that people who don't have troll dolls also find change on the sidewalk, get a bigger piece of dessert, or score home runs in kickball.

We were kids, but I think it's human nature to have a bit of superstition, to think that if two things happen together, one must cause the other. Adults just come up with more sophisticated rationalizations....and create organizations that do so.

I quit SGI almost five years ago, after having been a member for years. At a certain time, I was a very loyal member who worked hard for the organization and tried to shakabuku friends and family. I began to question things like the Nichiren Shoshu/SGI split and the Ikeda worship -- and my leaders and fellow members could never give me any acceptable answers.

For awhile, I did gongyo and daimoku, but I have not done that for months -- and I feel fine. My life has its ups and downs, as everyone's does, but basically, life's pretty good. While I was in SGI, I started thinking that my life would go to hell in a handbasket if I quit SGI, and especially if I quit chanting. Not true at all. I have a friend who is still a member, and when I see what she goes through --- running herself ragged for SGI, feeling guilty because she isn't doing enough or chanting enough -- I just say, "Thank God I'm not doing that anymore!"

Tsukimoto, thank you so much for sharing your "experience". I hate using that word because it is so reminiscent of the SGI. I like both your comparison of the superstition of chanting to the cute little troll dolls. I remember those. I think you are right about what you said about being superstitious if you do one thing, and another thing happens.

I also agree with Anticult about using getting a new stereo. What I like about chanting NMRK is that I feel more motivated to do things sometimes. I wish there was another way to find that motivation without having to chant. I chant, but feel guilty because I am so conflicted. I have decided I don't like the organization, but like the motivation I feel from chanting. I am trying to unwind their connection to each other. In other words, I want to be able to feel that way without having to be connected to the SGI.

When I talk to people who have been in the organization for a long time, and still are in the organization, I feel their world is so colored and filtered through their practice. It is like they can't even consider another viewpoint. They see the SGI's version of Nichiren's Buddhism as it. I think there are many paths to peace and happiness.

I feel so confused. I can't put my finger on what I am confused about exactly.

What I would like to know is if any of you ended up following other religions since you left SGI? Have any of you gone into counseling? I entered counseling, and I found some help, but we didn't discuss the SGI. I wonder what the response would be if I talked about it.

But really, I am wondering if any of you have found other groups, religions since SGI? Thank you!