I became SGI buddhst Novemember 2008. I went to a couple meetings, I felt like I was at church with testamonies. The chanting can not be healthy. Everyone I talked to had a sob story about how SGI helped them. Now, why does SGI feed off the mental nut cases? If buddhism really truthfully worked, how is a SGI buddhist still suicidal? Im concerned with this. Why can't mentally ill people realize the Chanting actually makes the depresssion worse? It's creepy to me. I quit the SGI when I realized there is way too much mental illness in SGI. How can I get a SGI member to realize SGI is messed up?

shellyleigh:

There is a thread within the message board specifically devoted to discussion about SGI.

See [forum.culteducation.com]

@shellyleigh You were right to quit SGI. Nevertheless, most members are not mentally ill. Many have allowed themselves to be brainwashed. Most are decent, generally nice people in fact. As an active member of over 20 years, I feel qualified to say this. Chanting(not Gakkai activities) has been a great force in my life. I have tried a few other things but have yet to encounter anything as powerful as chanting to the Gohonzon. Unfortunately there are some members who rely on it instead of therapy or medication because they expect too much from it. You are right to point out that the testimonials are similar to church. That makes sense since SGI is based on a religion, Nichiren Buddhism. Given how unaware most people, especially Westerners, are of it, I can see why SGI uses testimonials. Other organizations do so too. Perhaps the testimonials did not impress you because too many leaders/members feel the need to frame their stories, to package them like a product being sold by a business. That's not Buddhism, but it's not insanity either.

Dear Shellyleigh:

Perhaps some of the non-salaried leaders border on insanity but those at the top are not only sane but geniuses, evil geniuses.

Nichijew

Hi Shellyleigh,

I have to think I agree with you. Although I haven't long been a member of SGI, it
does seem like the SGI is full of dysfunctional folks. Maybe I happen to feel that
way because I am one of those people myself, and I can spot it a mile away! Lonely people looking for a place to turn
to give them hope in their life.
People looking for refuge in a group. People looking for stability, friendship, anything at all. When I encountered
the SGI, I fell into it hard and fast because I felt as if I had no one else to turn to.
I think there are a lot of people
who join because they are looking for a place to fit in, and they finally think they have found it.
It's so easy to get sucked in when you're down and out.

I honestly think, too, that due to some of the mental illness and brainwashing that exists in SGI,
people allow themselves to be taken advantage of and abused.
So sad. Again, I know this to be true from my own personal experience.
I think most of these people don't even realize that it's happening.
SGI feeds on these people, it's such a vicious cycle. They do it because it's so easy for them to do.

I'm not saying that chanting makes you crazy, because I think a normal amount of chanting can be
very beneficial. In fact, chanting helped me through a period in my life when I was feeling very suicidal.
However, SGI takes it to the extreme and uses it as a way to control people.

The other thread is full of great information about SGI that makes for fascinating reading (at least for me!)
I haven't even gotten all the way through yet, but it's an interesting look at SGI from different people's points
of view. And a good place to feel support if you are in the process of leaving or need healing from your
SGI experience.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2010 04:06PM by overthetop.

Hey overthetop, you wrote, "it does seem like the SGI is full of dysfunctional folks. Maybe I happen to feel that
way because I am one of those people myself, and I can spot it a mile away! Lonely people looking for a place to turn
to give them hope in their life.People looking for refuge in a group. People looking for stability, friendship, anything at all. When I encountered
the SGI, I fell into it hard and fast because I felt as if I had no one else to turn to.
I think there are a lot of people who join because they are looking for a place to fit in, and they finally think they have found it."
I hear you! I was one of them. I always felt socially awkward and that I could not find a community where I fit in. When I started attending SGI (NSA back then) I thought I had found an ideal spiritual community--and yes, the constant activities were exciting because they made me feel wanted and important. I had always been a deeply spiritual person and none of my friends were like that. Certainly I did not find any like-minded people in bars! As a gay man I did not want to join any traditional religious group that would have homophobia in its doctrines. I could not participate in that type of psychological suicide. Consequently, SGI was a good fit, although it did seem strange that some obviously gay leaders were married to other members of the opposite sex. I turned a blind eye to this. I also turned a blind eye to two of the most homophobic people I have EVER met in my life who would actually physically and verbally harass me because of my orientation. I was treated to horrible treatment by these two but I ignored it because the rest of my experience with NSA was so positive. What I eventually came to reject was the aggressive, intolerant, uninformed, controlling tendencies the meetings, leaders, and publications displayed and triggered in me. It took me over 20 years to finally say, "enough!"

I did know some people in SGI that had mental problems. They couldn't hold a job and lived on disability insurance. Or they did not have decent relationships with others. Of course not everyone was that way, but I did meet some people on the fringes of society.

When I started to attend SGI activities, I was at a low point in my life and, like doubtful, NSA made me feel wanted and important.

shellyleigh, look the other site about SGI. There's over 200 pages written by many ex-members with similiar but also unique experiences that have some very interesting things to say. There is one part about people with mental illnesses just getting "guidance" from untrained "leaders" and chanting to improve their situation instead of taking medication or seeing a professional who may be able to help.

Quote
shellyleigh



I became SGI buddhst Novemember 2008. I went to a couple meetings, I felt like I was at church with testamonies. The chanting can not be healthy. Everyone I talked to had a sob story about how SGI helped them. Now, why does SGI feed off the mental nut cases? If buddhism really truthfully worked, how is a SGI buddhist still suicidal? Im concerned with this. Why can't mentally ill people realize the Chanting actually makes the depresssion worse? It's creepy to me. I quit the SGI when I realized there is way too much mental illness in SGI. How can I get a SGI member to realize SGI is messed up?

I feel, for me anyway, that chanting is healthy and beneficial. I don't chant 5 hours a day or anything, though. It's something that feels good to me and I'm a firm believer in "to each his/her own". I can certainly understand a person who had a crappy experience with SGI never wanting to chant again. It's something that's good for me, though, so I continue to do it.
I can totally relate to the feeling you have about meetings. The member "experiences" didn't come off to me right away as testimonials. I wasn't in a bad place when I joined SGI, & it seemed like other churches to me, in that it was a community of people talking about how their faith had helped them. The woman who introduced me to SGI told me that they often share experiences at meetings, but that I'd probably be pretty much overwhelmed with hearing others' "experiences" at first, as I was the new person and they'd really want to drive home the point that SGI is The Golden Ticket to the end of all of my suffering. I'm paraphrasing, of course, but that was the feel of what she was saying.
After a few years of meetings, I really began to worry about these people. Constant talk about benefit, and all of the benefits were attributed to the SGI or Ikeda. "If it weren't for the SGI, my marriage wouldn't have fallen apart and allowed me to find my true soul mate". Uh, what? They can twist any circumstance into a benefit. I suppose anyone could do that, but SGI encourages that kind of thinking. Don't focus on your marriage...chant about it. It fails? Well, it's your relationship karma. New relationship? Great! You must have good relationship karma now! -_-
There's just so much brainwashing going on. I've mentioned before that when I gave birth to my son in the 5th month of pregnancy (he was stillborn), my then district leader told me, basically, that it was my fault and that I needed to chant with even more determination if I had any hopes of having other children in the future. I don't care what religion you are, you don't say shit like that to a woman who lost her child a few days prior. The SGI is full of manipulative, mentally ill people.

I agree that there is manipulation, cruelty, magical thinking, and denial in the SGI. I'm concerned though, at how the term "mentally ill" is being thrown around. What exactly does it mean? People who have serious mental health issues, like schizophrenia? Or people who believe in things that don't seem to make sense -- but who can function well in other areas of their lives?

People who join cults are not crazy -- in the sense of being psychotic and unable to function. Most of the people I know who've joined SGI were quite sane individuals who functioned well in many areas of their lives. Many of us experienced some kind of loss...or were just looking for something. A purpose, a sense of community, things that all people need and want. For us, SGI did seem to provide us with some of the things we needed, at least for awhile.

It can be like getting involved with someone. The person may seem great when you first start dating; the bad traits don't necessarily show up until later in the relationship. By then, you're in love, you're attached, and it's harder to leave. You tell yourself that no relationship is perfect, everyone has faults, you love this person and you want to make the relationship work out. At what point does the bad outweigh the good? Your relationship with a group can be like that too. There are things you like, things you don't like -- do you stay or go?

For you, shellyleigh, and some posters, the bad outweighed the good fairly early. Maybe that was you, maybe that was the SGI members you met, maybe it was a combination of you and your local SGI'ers. Some of us had more positive experiences in our early years with SGI, and it took longer for the bad aspects of SGI to outweigh our positive experiences. This does not make members nutcases, fruitcakes, whackos, or whatever else you would like to call them.

Some SGI leaders do seem to have a bias against psychiatry, and medication, and advise members with delusions, depression, OCD, or whatever to chant more and practice harder to overcome this. Why is it "taking the easy way out" to take prozac -- but it's okay to take cholesterol medication? I don't know. It's not right.

I can also agree that SGI encourages a degree of conformity, and magical thinking that is psychologically unhealthy -- and with that, insensitivity, even cruelty. SGI will tell you that you can change anything through chanting and working for SGI. At first that sounds hopeful and empowering, but the down side to that is, if you can't change your problem, you feel that you've failed. And other members, and leaders may tell you that you've failed too. That "You can chant and get whatever you want" mentality creates so much confusion, suffering, and meanness. For some people, it can become a vicious cycle, that sucks them further and further into SGI: "If chanting ten hours didn't work, I'll chant for twenty!" And once you've done this for years, you don't want to admit that it just doesn't work -- then you've also got to admit that you've wasted years, and who wants to do that?

No, most SGI members are sane, and predictable -- if they were not, SGI wouldn't bother with them, because they'd be too hard to control.

Thank you for this post,it's helpful to know I'm not the only one who finds the chanting gives me strong life force. The right attitude is so important, and that is probably why I ended up following the law and not the person as Nichiren Daishonin suggested all along. Cheers! ExMio