Hi. This is the first time I have opened a topic on thie board. In am in a situation right now where I have worked for a 'yoga meditation' group for the last ten years.

The group teaches much more than yoga meditation. Actually, although claiming not to be a religion, it is a pretty complete theology with millenarial predictions included about a probable total global socio-economic collapse and the ushering in of a 'New Era' of peace and happiness. I hope people don't mind me not mentioning the name as I still depend on them for my livelihood.

Over the last few months I am beginning to come to my senses and ask myself why I am working my butt off when the main goal of my work is to help others recruit new people into our group!

I am tired of working in this closed environment, it's cyclical, pull in more new recruits, they take classes, they become teachers, they pull in new recruits, who take classes and become teachers, etc.

I haven't been doing my practices. I just don't feel like it ... which is of course a huge no-no. I can't really say my group is a 'cult' right now. But I am scared to leave for many reason. The main thing being that we are doing 'God's work' of helping people' to survive the upcoming collapse of society.

Of course, not wanting to do 'God's work' is considered totally selfish.

I always thought that the group helped me cope with life and gave me a lot of psychological 'wholeness' (can't think how else to put it.) after my fiancee left me and death of my brother. I learned acceptance and concepts of the continuation of the soul, reincarnation, etc. And of course, all the sorrows made perfect sense because they led me to the Teachings and to a glorious mission of helping humanity.

I realized that I've spent the last ten years of my life believing that we are living in the 'end times', preparing for it mentally, accepting sacrifices for the sake of the group, living poor. It has become such a burden now, where before I just accepted it as part of life. It has become such a normal part of my belief-system, that I sometimes forget that others don't live with this constant feeling that worse things are around the corner. At times I have even looked forward to it in some warped way, just to break up the monotonous routine of my life and prove that it was all true and really worth it.

But now as I struggle with this desire to get out and lead a normal life, I almost feel like I'm going crazy with fears and worries about what will happen to me if I leave, such as:

I/family will get sick and die
boyfriend will leave me
People will hate me
I/family will die in a natural disaster (there so many of 'em these days.)
When the global socio-economic crash happens I will not be protected by the group and I'll die.

I understand the concept of phobia indoctrination theoretically (read Steve Hassan's book 'Releaseing the bonds'), but in practice it is very scary. Sometiems I feel like I'm having a panic attack all day! I'm working but I'm thinking about leaving, then I'll read the news headlines on the Internet and I'll start obsessing over all the things that could possibly go wrong in my life if I quit.

Every time I read a headline about a natural disaster or you know, the price of oil going up, the dow going down, the jobless rate, I just feel like I have more reasons to stay safely ensconced, being 'protected', even if I feel bored, stifled and unfulfilled ... and poor, very poor! Apparently, God will reward me a thousand times for what I'm doing, but according to the group that means in health and happiness, not 'material' things.

I am seeing a counselor, but as good as she is, she doesn't really understand what I'm going through. She says 'focus on what's better', but I haven't gotten over these fears enough to do that yet.

Sorry, this is a bit long but please, if anyone has experienced this, how did you cope? I'm longing to have my own career and my own life ... but these fears are holding me back. How did you overcome these fears in a world that does sometimes look as though it's going to h*ll in a handbasket, and that all these prophets of doom are right?

Hi, Well I could write down a lot of things. But I don't think any intellectual arguments will take away your panic. It seems to me that you should see an exit councelor, instead of a regular therapist. Exit counseling can help you to dismantel step by step all the indocrination you got hooked up in. If there is an exit group counseling, you also would have the support of people who go or went to exactly the same fears and confusion as you do. I really wish you the strenght you need, I know it is difficult.

Yes. I went to a regular counselor because it was hard to find a proper cult 'exit' counselor in my area.

I am especially wary of finding myself unwittingly involved with any kind of Christian counselor/counseling group trying to 'minister' to me about accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior as a way out of this mess. I've already got enough problems trying to get away from the guy who says Jesus' soul comes in to him to 'guide' me through my life.

I don't mean to offend Christians on the board but that seems like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

Perhaps I'll refresh that search and see what I can come up with. Thanks very much for your feedback.

Quote
solea13
I haven't been doing my practices. I just don't feel like it ... which is of course a huge no-no. I can't really say my group is a 'cult' right now. But I am scared to leave for many reason. The main thing being that we are doing 'God's work' of helping people' to survive the upcoming collapse of society.

Of course, not wanting to do 'God's work' is considered totally selfish.

Thats just whole lot of nonsense. The group is trying to make you feel guilty and obligated.

Form what you have discribe this group has many of the critierias for a cult.

Cults use fear tactics and guilt complexes to manipulate members. They attack you on a Emotional leval and then they attack you using Logic.

Honestly I would leave the group. YOU DONT HAVE TO JUSTIFY ANYTHING WITH THEM. Just leave.
Change your phone number if you have to.

Quote
solea13
I/family will get sick and die
boyfriend will leave me
People will hate me
I/family will die in a natural disaster (there so many of 'em these days.)
When the global socio-economic crash happens I will not be protected by the group and I'll die.

I understand the concept of phobia indoctrination theoretically (read Steve Hassan's book 'Releaseing the bonds'), but in practice it is very scary. Sometiems I feel like I'm having a panic attack all day! I'm working but I'm thinking about leaving, then I'll read the news headlines on the Internet and I'll start obsessing over all the things that could possibly go wrong in my life if I quit.

Every time I read a headline about a natural disaster or you know, the price of oil going up, the dow going down, the jobless rate, I just feel like I have more reasons to stay safely ensconced, being 'protected', even if I feel bored, stifled and unfulfilled ... and poor, very poor! Apparently, God will reward me a thousand times for what I'm doing, but according to the group that means in health and happiness, not 'material' things.

I am seeing a counselor, but as good as she is, she doesn't really understand what I'm going through. She says 'focus on what's better', but I haven't gotten over these fears enough to do that yet.

Yep the group is using feeding off common fears and using them agaisnt you.
Its quite normal for people to worry about survival because thats ingrain within us by nature.
But its cults that take advantage of this fears to manipulate people.

Instead of being with the group why dont you connect with homestead (back to country living) forums or homestead friends. They believe in living off the country. But they (or you) are not forced into any weird organizations.
There are many people who are preparing for natural disasters who are not in any such groups you discribe. Theres no reason why you cant start your own survival things without this group. You dont need this group.


As for your therapist I dont think your counsoler knows your situation well enough. Keep her as support but continue to look out for someone who undersatnds your situation. I can sympathize with you.

If you feel you are going to have a panic attack. This is a warning sign. Most cults will exploit this opportuniy for a total conversion to make "a True Believer" zombie out of you.

Do you not have any friends or family members you can find support when you leave this group?


Watch this video:
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2008 09:28AM by Keir.

Hi Keir,

Wow. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. Yeah. I feel totally guilty and totally obligated to this group. I had absolutely NO idea that other groups instill their members with these same kinds of fears. It's not that long ago that I first 'allowed' myself to read 'Releasing the Bonds' on the pretext of proving to myself that the group is not a cult !!! Heh heh heh. Little did I know that I would find my own situation perfectly described in there. What a great book.

I avoided coming on this message board for a while in large part because I thought it was a Christian based board claiming that all small spiritual groups are cults. Instead I found a lot of different perspectives by a lot of intelligent people who know about Mind Control and Thought Reform. And this information was out there all along ... I just didn't know.

I have actually had leaders within my organization tell me that I will die if I quit my job with the group! Or at least lose my 'special' mission of being close to the Guru & his family. At the time, because I did not even understand that this is a mind-control or thought reform technique, I just accepted it as probably true.

Time and time again over the years I have been told that there is no other more valuable work in society that I can do than spreading the teaching of this Guru. All other work will be rendered null and void by the coming collapse. I did believe it.

I have sacrificed my dreams of having a family and any thought of a challenging career in order to pursue 'self realization' )which appears to be an impossible ideal, now that I wake up to the facts.) I've been told that I will not be a failure) on the 'outside', that I will never find a man who will stay with me and on and on.

In answer to your question, my family knows I am involved but I have successfully convinced them over the years that I am perfectly fine and doing what I want to do. I have even convinced them to a small extent that the organization is somewhat legitimate and that it has helped me.

I struggle with being honest about my experiences and true feelings and perhaps betraying the Guru and the organization in some way ... that I might interfere (okay, sounds a little silly writing it down) with their spiritual development if I stop them from joining the group.

I guess I need to start being honest with myself and my family so I can get some help. I dropped out once before from burn-out but I convinced everyone I was fine and I went back for a second time. I'm kicking myself about that, I can tell you!

It's really hard. These phobias extend even to being honest about my true feelings and doubts with other people about the group, but I am trying to stay calm and I didn't have any panic attacks last week.

My counselor is doing her best to understand. She lowered her regular fee for me and has been reading up on cults too, as though we are a tag-team. I say, "I found this, it happened to me ... " and she says, "Yeah, look have you seen this? ... Does it apply to your experience?" So it is definitely helping.

Thanks for your help, Keir it's really great to have feedback. I'll watch the video & look into the homesteading thing. It sounds interesting :)

P.S.: Just watched the video. Not sure whether to laugh or cry at this point .. grrr.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2008 01:34AM by solea13.

Hi solea13
Sorry for the late reply. I'mve just been having problems with my computer. (I think its time to get a new one soon.)

I hope you are strong willed enough to leave the group and never look back.
You dont have to justify your reasons to them.
They will use emotional manipulation and rational logic argumenst to try to keep you in thier grasp (I know how some of these groups operate).

Being honest with yourself is the first step.

Solea, Thanks for stating this thread. It was very striking to me how similar some of your experiences with your group are to my experiences with the Soka Gakkai.

I joined the Soka Gakkai at a very low point in my life. My fiance had left me for another woman, and right after that, I had been fired from my job after several tense months of trying to please a new boss. I was miserable, angry, and doubting my attractiveness, competence and judgement. The Soka Gakkai members that I met seemed positive, optimistic, and interested in self-improvement and helping others. They told me that I could change my "bad karma" by dedicating myself to chanting, working for the organization, and converting others to this Buddhism. The Soka Gakkai teaches that its members should work for "kosen-rufu," or world peace, which they say will happen when a large percentage of the population practices this kind of Buddhism and chants.

Desperate, I began chanting and participating in the organization's activities. I planned meetings, provided rides to Soka Gakkai activities for members who didn't have cars, did free babysitting for prospective members so that they could go to meetings, ran study groups, cleaned meeting rooms before and after meetings. At the time, I was happy to do it. I believed in the cause, liked the other members, and enjoyed the activities. I went back to school, found a great job, and began dating again. Life was good.

What changed my views of the Soka Gakkai? Well, a lot of things. Gradually, I began to get tired of the constant demands on my time. I had a demanding job (Like most members, I had a paying job outside of the Soka Gakkai.) My life was becoming just going to my paid job all day and then in the evenings and on weekends, my second, unpaid job was all the stuff I did for the Soka Gakkai. No matter how much we did, it was never enough. I saw my friends in the Gakkai becoming exhausted. They cut back on their own rest and recreation to meet the leaders' demands. Spouses and children became resentful of all the time spent with Soka Gakkai activities rather than family.

When I asked leaders if we could cut back on the organizational activities a bit, I was lectured on my "bad attitude." "The Soka Gakkai was here for you when you needed it," I was told. "You owe a debt of gratitude to your leaders and the organization. It's your duty to be here for other people who are suffering as you were. You owe your happiness and success to the Soka Gakkai. Why are you so selfish; why are you unwilling to give back to an organization that has given so much to you? If you stop now, you'll lose all the benefit that you've gained from your practice of this Buddhism."

We were told constantly that members who quit were traitors, and would suffer bad karma for their selfishness and lack of faith. We were reminded that this person quit the Soka Gakkai and then got cancer. That person quit and their child got into a serious accident. This other person left and her husband divorced her.

At every Soka Gakkai meeting and in our weekly newspaper, there are always "experiences," stories of how people use Buddhism to solve their problems. These all have the same script: A person has a problem. It could be job-related, family, financial, health, anything -- but it's a problem that they try to solve and can't. So they chant about it. Usually, they still have the problem. So they seek "guidance" from a leader. The leader tells them that they need to chant more and devote themselves more to Soka Gakkai activities. Well, they do this and struggle for a bit more, and finally, they resolve the problem. They're happy, and vow to truly devote themselves to the Soka Gakkai and world peace.

It may sound silly to someone sitting at their computer and reading this --- but when you hear this message over and over again, for years, from people that you like and trust -- it sinks in, maybe deeper than you realize. You learn to think differently, reframing all of your experiences. If something good happens, you think it is because of your chanting and your involvement with the Soka Gakkai. If your life is going badly, you think it is either a test of faith -- or because you haven't done enough for the Soka Gakkai. You spend a lot of time with other Soka Gakkai members -- they believe this, or act as if they do. It seems normal to think in these terms. It just feels wrong to question the Soka Gakkai, because nobody else that you know does. What if everyone else is right and you're wrong?

It took me years to get to the point where I could think about leaving. I began going to websites like this one, and I discovered that other people had the same concerns regarding the Soka Gakkai that I did. At first, I was scared to be even reading anything critical of the Soka Gakkai. It had been so drummed into me that this was disloyal and that terrible things would happen to me -- that I'd get sick, my house would burn down, or one of my family members would suffer. Then, I got angry at my own fear. I finally realized that something was very wrong with how I'd been taught in the Soka Gakkai. A person shouldn't be afraid just to read about another viewpoint!

Well, there's a lot more that I could write but this is already too long. To make a long story short, I quit the Soka Gakkai two years ago. Cold turkey, no contact with any of the members since. I was terrified at first, but I'm happy now and wish I'd done it sooner! Reading this board has been so helpful. You start to see really how similar all these groups are. Whether they're Christian, Buddhist, secular, meditation, yoga -- whatever, it's still the same manipulative little mindgames. Once you really see how the trick is done -- it starts to lose its hold on you. It takes time, learning new and more realistic ways of thinking -- but you can do it.

Thank you Keir :)

tsukimoto - (I'm sorry for the delay in answering I didn't see your post sooner.) Thank you so much for describing your experiences in Soka Gakkai. Although you were in a different organization, what you describe sounds so similar to what I went through ... Being at a low point in life, enjoying the camaraderie and the feeling of having a purpose when starting in the group and then the constant demands on your time.

And the threats they used ... if you reduce your activities or quit you are ungrateful and selfish. For us it was 'controlled by your ego' instead of your soul. 'When your body achieves unity with your soul you will work unceasingly and always be happy'.

People who left our group were also directly threatened with dire consequences. My own teacher decided to quit. He and some others were told outright that they would die. I now know that it was a very unhappy, scary time for them. We were all quite young at the time, more easily influenced than we even knew. I recently contacted him and some other ex-members. They are all doing fine. In fact, they have things I don't ... exciting, rewarding careers, spouses, beautiful happy children.

One person who left did commit suicide. It was appaling at the time and all of us in the group saw it as the Guru's words coming to pass. In some ways, our compassion for that person was stunted because we felt that it was his 'karma' for leaving the group. Isn't that horrible? Now I am beginning to see that it was more likely the direct consequence of the psychological toll of coming out of the cult without any kind of support network. I can see how the guilt and fear could easily overwhelm a person and make them feel suicidal. Maybe he thought he would do better in his next life. It is so incredibly sad.

It may be hard for others who have not been in a cult to believe that a person can be influenced to such a great extent, but when your group has these idealistic claims and goals of saving the world, when the apparent purpose is for the 'benefit' of mankind, when you think your Guru is either a new messiah or otherwise a 'very great soul', it all makes a for certain kind of logic. 'Forget yourself to help others' was our big motto. how could you refuse that? How could you go home and watch tv when the suffering humanity is waiting for your assistance? I was brought up Catholic and it looks as though all the builtup guilt of the years was just waiting to be kicked into overdrive!

I too had a very hard time coming to this Website in particular. I had the idea that it was a Christian site, set up to crush any kind of new or alternative spiritual group. But I had read Steve Hassan's book and although I kept saying to myself that the things described were like my experience, I still though that my group was different because we had the 'Truth'. So even if there were some cult-like behaviours, it was a true spiritual path and not a 'cult'.

But I couldn't stop reading. I've read almost every book there is on cults. And once I let myself come to this Website I couldn't stop reading all the threads and I learned so much within a space of two months that I thought my head would explode.

I really appreciate you taking so much time to write your experiences for me here. I can't tell you how much every new story I hear helps right now and reinforces that in fact (irrespective of the merit of the philosophy and teachings themselves) I have been coerced by unethical means of persuasion into a lifestyle that was not truly of my own choosing. Instead my decisions have been influenced by fear.

In some ways it will be hard to leave. This is all I have known for ten years. I like some of the people here. They've even been kind to me at times. But I would be happy to find challenging work, to be free to come and go as I please, never have to do something because I'm afraid of the consequences if I refuse ... sounds so sweeet right now!

Thanks again for sharing your story! I am glad that you are out now and living life the way you choose. :)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2008 11:56PM by solea13.

tsukimoto, interesting post. Lets have you start a new posting here under the subject of Soka Gakkai. As you may not know yet, rrmoderator prefers we keep to the posted subject matter in a thread as best as we can (naturally, there are exceptions and/or reasonable drifting off suject. I was married in an SGI "temple" and can relate to your escape. If you don't know how to start a new post, I'll do it for you, but you are really interesting and I think the honor of starting a new thread should belong to you. Looking forward to an SGI post.

Hi solea,

due to short time, I only skimmed the thread. so please forgive more bluntness in my 2 cents!!

The "End Times" stuff is a common technique...obviously to get people focussed, work cheap, scare them, etc. They always say we are in the End Times...

MY view is we are NOT in the End Times. Even global warming, if true, won't kill us that fast!
So there is no "End Times"
I think its horseshit!
:-)
Its an old trick. They might believe it, but its still a trick they use on people.


(also Soka Gakkai is really bad, I've investigated them quite a bit too, the evidence says SGI is certainly a cult) [www.culteducation.com]



But, for the FEARS and PHOBIAS.

I can recommend CBT, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. That has been proven...yes proven by actual tests...to work in many people.
This book below is fantastic, by a legit doctor. Most libraries have it.
I have it right here on my shelf, really a wonderful piece of work. Not just about "panic" but about all Anxiety.
Its not a cult, its not New Age stuff....its just good modern psychology backed by science.
I recommend it without reservation.


WHEN PANIC ATTACKS by Dr. David Burns.
[www.amazon.com]