Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: July 18, 2019 07:57AM
NancyB Wrote:
> Many of us survivors of tLW have asked question in
> order to right what we feel has been so wrong. ZIP
> NADA ZILCH except for a letter of apology that did
> not cut the mustard to the 3 woman who filed
> sexual abuse charges this year.
>
> Perhaps if you are considering joining the Living
> Word founded by JRS or if you are still in the
> group perhaps you could ask some of the questions
> for us that we have asked on this forum. We have
> asked for transparency in numerous areas.
In the long sordid history of the Walk/TLWF, to my knowledge, there has been no transparency within top leadership. The burden has always been laid upon the "sheep" to confess all, to reveal everything they have been doing (or not doing), and to assume if God's promises have not fulfilled, it is their fault.
I think this asymmetrical relationship has facilitated the widespread abuse that's has decimated so many lives...because the perpetrators felt immune to any consequences for their lawless behavior. They figured they would skirt by. Now it seems that may not happen. We'll see. With some clever lawyering, along with key people not coming forward to reveal what they know, things could work once again in their favor (legally). Anyway, regardless of the outcome of these lawsuits, I'm grateful there has been an avenue for ex-members to speak their mind. As messy as the various online forums have been at times, it's still refreshing to witness people speak their minds.
p.s. I encourage ex-members to continue being 'disobedient' to those representing themselves as the voice of God and offering their unsolicited guidance--under the pretense of "setting the record straight." Resist.
> Many of us survivors of tLW have asked question in
> order to right what we feel has been so wrong. ZIP
> NADA ZILCH except for a letter of apology that did
> not cut the mustard to the 3 woman who filed
> sexual abuse charges this year.
>
> Perhaps if you are considering joining the Living
> Word founded by JRS or if you are still in the
> group perhaps you could ask some of the questions
> for us that we have asked on this forum. We have
> asked for transparency in numerous areas.
In the long sordid history of the Walk/TLWF, to my knowledge, there has been no transparency within top leadership. The burden has always been laid upon the "sheep" to confess all, to reveal everything they have been doing (or not doing), and to assume if God's promises have not fulfilled, it is their fault.
I think this asymmetrical relationship has facilitated the widespread abuse that's has decimated so many lives...because the perpetrators felt immune to any consequences for their lawless behavior. They figured they would skirt by. Now it seems that may not happen. We'll see. With some clever lawyering, along with key people not coming forward to reveal what they know, things could work once again in their favor (legally). Anyway, regardless of the outcome of these lawsuits, I'm grateful there has been an avenue for ex-members to speak their mind. As messy as the various online forums have been at times, it's still refreshing to witness people speak their minds.
p.s. I encourage ex-members to continue being 'disobedient' to those representing themselves as the voice of God and offering their unsolicited guidance--under the pretense of "setting the record straight." Resist.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: July 18, 2019 08:03AM
This post by GSchaeff from June of 2018:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: GSchaeff
Date: June 11, 2018 07:26PM
"We were conditioned to trust implicitly," that's a really good way of putting it.
I wanted to describe how it was unbelievable at first that TLWF could be so radically different than I believed it to be as a member. After being out, and especially after reading the accounts of so many ex members, it's much more believable. To respond to Southgate, that's why I don't have any desire to return, because of all the evidence on here of destructiveness and total lack of transparency. It's just frustrating now that there's not more out there about TLWF, especially documents, etc. It's reminder that this forum is important, probably the only source of transparency about TLWF that many people have.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: GSchaeff
Date: June 11, 2018 07:26PM
"We were conditioned to trust implicitly," that's a really good way of putting it.
I wanted to describe how it was unbelievable at first that TLWF could be so radically different than I believed it to be as a member. After being out, and especially after reading the accounts of so many ex members, it's much more believable. To respond to Southgate, that's why I don't have any desire to return, because of all the evidence on here of destructiveness and total lack of transparency. It's just frustrating now that there's not more out there about TLWF, especially documents, etc. It's reminder that this forum is important, probably the only source of transparency about TLWF that many people have.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
VKocsis
()
Date: July 18, 2019 03:03PM
The truth is that the evangelical industrial complex is getting turned on its head, and The Walk is a part of this movement. Those who started it have abused children and vulnerable adults with fear, mind dissection, harsh punishment and extortion. They harbor pedophiles. They know what they have done. There’s zero defense which stands. There’s no doctrine in the world which can defend the deeds of the EIC. The base EIC doctrine is built on terror and violence. The days are coming to an end, and it’s not going to happen on some battlefield during a Rapture. It’s happening with the unveiling of the wickedness of the EIC, hitting their pocketbooks left and right and it’s just begun. I’m so proud of the three brave women who have stood up and said “no more” to the pedophiles in The Walk. Those who would stand silent and/or defend The Walk are simply abusers themselves. Give little energy to the wicked. Stay rooted in your truth and your light. Those who want to find their way home can recognize truth for what it is and criminals for who they are.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
JimK3
()
Date: July 18, 2019 06:19PM
Onion, thank you for the info on Ohio.
I was involved with the Living Word as a child/teenager for about 10 years, from the mid-seventies to mid-eighties. There was no Living Word congregation near us, so we started a small study group using the tapes and the hymnal, and after a while considered ourselves a (albeit unofficial) Living Word congregation. I can still remember those songs we sang (Awake O Sleeper and Dedicated to Love were two of my favorites). I also remember--and somebody check me on this--singing adaptations of pop songs as hymns. One in particular was "Jeremiah was a Prophet," based on Three Dog Night's "Joy To The World." Please let me know if that was a practice of the Living Word or if I am remembering that from another church.
We traveled frequently to several Living Word congregations including the ones near DC, Shiloh, and Los Angeles.
We went to the one near DC frequently enough that one of the main families in our study eventually moved there solely to be closer to that congregation. My family had been pentecostal most of my life, but I remember the worship sessions at the congregation near DC being so much more intense and "spiritual" than any other worship I'd ever been a part of. My young emotions during the sessions were a mixture of a little fear (I had no idea what was happening) and a lot of the holy spirit (through the eyes of a child).
We spent time at the LA congregation because relatives of ours went there and seemed to be in some sort of leadership position. We spent a lot of time with John Robert Stevens, mostly in a small modest house somewhere in a very dense part of LA, which in my mind was where he lived. I was quite young at the time but I remember many hours of sitting around a small dinette in the small kitchen with my mom, our relatives, and John Robert Stevens and his wife(?). They mostly talked about theology and I remember John Robert Stevens extemporaneously speaking about theology as if it was a never ending flow from him. He never had a bible or any notes and yet he could come up with these kitchen table sermons with seemingly no effort. Those are my most vivid memories of our LA trips, just sitting on the floor next to that table listening to adults talk about super boring (through a child's eyes) stuff.
Summers were for Shiloh, and we went there for long stretches since we were out of school. It was my understanding that if you stayed in the dorms at Shiloh, it was a requirement to work. I earned my keep at Shiloh by shucking corn. I remember very intense worship services there as well. Very long services with what seemed like hours of worship, followed by hours of intercession, followed by hours of preaching. I remember being there one time for what was referred to as a "siege" or perhaps a "victory siege." This siege was even longer; I believe it went on for days if not weeks and it was 24/7 in the sanctuary. I remember falling asleep on the floor there very late at night night on multiple occasions. I believe--and again please check me--that this siege was a defensive action against the death of John Robert Stevens. I remember in my young mind, putting two and two together, that they were talking about the man I had spent so much time literally at the feet of, in that little house. I hadn't known anybody who had died at that point and remember feeling so relieved that this siege was going to prevent him from dying. I assume he's dead now all these years later.
We stopped going to Living Word congregations and disbanded our little "congregation" in the mid-eighties. I don't remember the exact reasons, but it was probably because we started attending an AG church nearby, which was a much more complete experience than trying to be a Living Word congregation so disconnected from the rest of the Living Word body.
I'm looking forward to reading the thread (read a couple posts last night) but wanted to introduce myself before I dove in.
Best Regards,
JimK
I was involved with the Living Word as a child/teenager for about 10 years, from the mid-seventies to mid-eighties. There was no Living Word congregation near us, so we started a small study group using the tapes and the hymnal, and after a while considered ourselves a (albeit unofficial) Living Word congregation. I can still remember those songs we sang (Awake O Sleeper and Dedicated to Love were two of my favorites). I also remember--and somebody check me on this--singing adaptations of pop songs as hymns. One in particular was "Jeremiah was a Prophet," based on Three Dog Night's "Joy To The World." Please let me know if that was a practice of the Living Word or if I am remembering that from another church.
We traveled frequently to several Living Word congregations including the ones near DC, Shiloh, and Los Angeles.
We went to the one near DC frequently enough that one of the main families in our study eventually moved there solely to be closer to that congregation. My family had been pentecostal most of my life, but I remember the worship sessions at the congregation near DC being so much more intense and "spiritual" than any other worship I'd ever been a part of. My young emotions during the sessions were a mixture of a little fear (I had no idea what was happening) and a lot of the holy spirit (through the eyes of a child).
We spent time at the LA congregation because relatives of ours went there and seemed to be in some sort of leadership position. We spent a lot of time with John Robert Stevens, mostly in a small modest house somewhere in a very dense part of LA, which in my mind was where he lived. I was quite young at the time but I remember many hours of sitting around a small dinette in the small kitchen with my mom, our relatives, and John Robert Stevens and his wife(?). They mostly talked about theology and I remember John Robert Stevens extemporaneously speaking about theology as if it was a never ending flow from him. He never had a bible or any notes and yet he could come up with these kitchen table sermons with seemingly no effort. Those are my most vivid memories of our LA trips, just sitting on the floor next to that table listening to adults talk about super boring (through a child's eyes) stuff.
Summers were for Shiloh, and we went there for long stretches since we were out of school. It was my understanding that if you stayed in the dorms at Shiloh, it was a requirement to work. I earned my keep at Shiloh by shucking corn. I remember very intense worship services there as well. Very long services with what seemed like hours of worship, followed by hours of intercession, followed by hours of preaching. I remember being there one time for what was referred to as a "siege" or perhaps a "victory siege." This siege was even longer; I believe it went on for days if not weeks and it was 24/7 in the sanctuary. I remember falling asleep on the floor there very late at night night on multiple occasions. I believe--and again please check me--that this siege was a defensive action against the death of John Robert Stevens. I remember in my young mind, putting two and two together, that they were talking about the man I had spent so much time literally at the feet of, in that little house. I hadn't known anybody who had died at that point and remember feeling so relieved that this siege was going to prevent him from dying. I assume he's dead now all these years later.
We stopped going to Living Word congregations and disbanded our little "congregation" in the mid-eighties. I don't remember the exact reasons, but it was probably because we started attending an AG church nearby, which was a much more complete experience than trying to be a Living Word congregation so disconnected from the rest of the Living Word body.
I'm looking forward to reading the thread (read a couple posts last night) but wanted to introduce myself before I dove in.
Best Regards,
JimK
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Reepicheep
()
Date: July 18, 2019 09:33PM
Welcome, JimK3.
In the early days of The Walk, JRS and his family lived in Lynwood, CA, near Grace Chapel South Gate. They moved to North Hollywood by the time period you spoke of. The Church of the Living Word in Sepulveda (now North Hills) was built in the early sixties, and JRS would preach in both LA area churches several times a week. Later there was also a church in Anaheim, CA.
At Shiloh during the sieges people did indeed sing violent songs proclaiming death and destruction to the Nephilim that were "trying to kill John". Jezebel the Harlot to the tune of Elvis Presley's Heartbreak Hotel, and something similar to the tune of Queen's We Will Rock You come to mind. That practice was later abandoned due to copyright concerns.
These are not good memories for most of us who have left and now feel that we have escaped from a dangerous cult. Your family left at a good time. It got worse, as you will no doubt learn while reading the nearly 10,000 posts written here to date. ;)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2019 09:53PM by Reepicheep.
In the early days of The Walk, JRS and his family lived in Lynwood, CA, near Grace Chapel South Gate. They moved to North Hollywood by the time period you spoke of. The Church of the Living Word in Sepulveda (now North Hills) was built in the early sixties, and JRS would preach in both LA area churches several times a week. Later there was also a church in Anaheim, CA.
At Shiloh during the sieges people did indeed sing violent songs proclaiming death and destruction to the Nephilim that were "trying to kill John". Jezebel the Harlot to the tune of Elvis Presley's Heartbreak Hotel, and something similar to the tune of Queen's We Will Rock You come to mind. That practice was later abandoned due to copyright concerns.
These are not good memories for most of us who have left and now feel that we have escaped from a dangerous cult. Your family left at a good time. It got worse, as you will no doubt learn while reading the nearly 10,000 posts written here to date. ;)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2019 09:53PM by Reepicheep.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
TheJewel
()
Date: July 18, 2019 11:58PM
NancyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love digging deep for treasures. Here is a "gold
> mine" I did not know existed to be dug up. Goes to
> show how little of the future God revealed that
> could come back to haunt the likes of JRS - well
> worth the re-share.
>
> Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John
> Robert Stevens
> Posted by: Cloudwatcher ()
> Date: July 14, 2018 12:20PM
>
> Cloudwatcher quoted:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > GoingRogue Wrote:
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > > Yes, very unethical. Here is more proof that
> > JRS
> > > did, in fact, use the PhD title in the early
> > days.
> > >
> > > Another link to the Ethel Waters vinyl. Click
> > on
> > > "More Images" to view the back of the album
> > where
> > > "Dr." John Robert Stevens wrote the program
> > notes
> > > and to get a better view of the logo.
> > >
> >
> [www.discogs.com]
> > >
> > > Here's a link to find out more about Paul
> > > Mickelson, especially the following quote:
> > >
> > > In 1957, he said goodbye to the Billy Graham
> > > Ministries and focused on his last album for
> > RCA:
> > > "The Music Of Paul Mickelson: Orchestra With
> > > Singing Strings". In 1958, he became
> > > vice-president and music director at Word
> > Records,
> > > where he orchestrated albums for many
> Christian
> > > artists in addition to producing several
> > > instrumental albums of his own.
> > >
> >
> [christmasyuleblog.blogspot.com]
> >
> > Holy shit he copied that logo--just a
> > variation--Jesus didn't reveal it to him.
> Yikes.
> > WTF
>
>
> The "Dr" in front of John Robert Stevens I don't
> think says he is a phd- which we know he is not.
> Back in those days ministers used "doctor of
> divinity" to show how respected as a holy person -
> like a Catholic Priest.
>
> I think jrs credentials may not be all that
> impressive as he wanted everyone to believe- IMO-
> but no one could Google facts until the future (
> JRS obliviously was asleep at that part of his
> vision of future in Holy Jim Canyon- snark)
Did JRS ever claim that title (Dr. or PHD)? That would be a bit out of character since most of the time he preached against the seminary’s and the academic approach referring to them as cemeteries. You have to have a real revelation from god, he would say.
I bought this for a while but later changed my position feeling that without a thorough understanding of the context it is probably difficult to properly understand what someone was trying to say two millennia ago. Knowledge is good and gives you breadth, the lack thereof, often gets you in trouble.
It is interesting that JRS strongly recommended learning in other areas.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2019 12:09AM by TheJewel.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love digging deep for treasures. Here is a "gold
> mine" I did not know existed to be dug up. Goes to
> show how little of the future God revealed that
> could come back to haunt the likes of JRS - well
> worth the re-share.
>
> Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John
> Robert Stevens
> Posted by: Cloudwatcher ()
> Date: July 14, 2018 12:20PM
>
> Cloudwatcher quoted:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > GoingRogue Wrote:
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > > Yes, very unethical. Here is more proof that
> > JRS
> > > did, in fact, use the PhD title in the early
> > days.
> > >
> > > Another link to the Ethel Waters vinyl. Click
> > on
> > > "More Images" to view the back of the album
> > where
> > > "Dr." John Robert Stevens wrote the program
> > notes
> > > and to get a better view of the logo.
> > >
> >
> [www.discogs.com]
> > >
> > > Here's a link to find out more about Paul
> > > Mickelson, especially the following quote:
> > >
> > > In 1957, he said goodbye to the Billy Graham
> > > Ministries and focused on his last album for
> > RCA:
> > > "The Music Of Paul Mickelson: Orchestra With
> > > Singing Strings". In 1958, he became
> > > vice-president and music director at Word
> > Records,
> > > where he orchestrated albums for many
> Christian
> > > artists in addition to producing several
> > > instrumental albums of his own.
> > >
> >
> [christmasyuleblog.blogspot.com]
> >
> > Holy shit he copied that logo--just a
> > variation--Jesus didn't reveal it to him.
> Yikes.
> > WTF
>
>
> The "Dr" in front of John Robert Stevens I don't
> think says he is a phd- which we know he is not.
> Back in those days ministers used "doctor of
> divinity" to show how respected as a holy person -
> like a Catholic Priest.
>
> I think jrs credentials may not be all that
> impressive as he wanted everyone to believe- IMO-
> but no one could Google facts until the future (
> JRS obliviously was asleep at that part of his
> vision of future in Holy Jim Canyon- snark)
Did JRS ever claim that title (Dr. or PHD)? That would be a bit out of character since most of the time he preached against the seminary’s and the academic approach referring to them as cemeteries. You have to have a real revelation from god, he would say.
I bought this for a while but later changed my position feeling that without a thorough understanding of the context it is probably difficult to properly understand what someone was trying to say two millennia ago. Knowledge is good and gives you breadth, the lack thereof, often gets you in trouble.
It is interesting that JRS strongly recommended learning in other areas.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2019 12:09AM by TheJewel.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: July 19, 2019 12:37AM
Welcome, JimK3.
JimK3 wrote:
I remember being there one time for what was referred to as a "siege" or perhaps a "victory siege." This siege was even longer; I believe it went on for days if not weeks and it was 24/7 in the sanctuary. I remember falling asleep on the floor there very late at night night on multiple occasions. I believe--and again please check me--that this siege was a defensive action against the death of John Robert Stevens.
There have been a number of people in this forum that have written about the "siege" in Shiloh, along with living and working at Shiloh during that time period. Lots of references to "violent intercession,' much of it focused on supposedly protecting John from satanic forces that sought to destroy his ministry as the 'Apostle to the Kingdom.' It was understood by many in the fellowship that the main threat came from his wife Martha, who had been identified as a 'Nephilim' to the congregation by John. They eventually divorced in '79, following an intense court battle over the ownership of substantial church assets. John married his secretary, Marilyn Holbrook, approximately a year later. He died June 4, 1983 of cancer. His wife Marilyn remarried a year later to Gary Hargrave, and together they led the fellowship 30+ years.
A post regarding John and Martha's divorce:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: kbyrne ()
Date: April 26, 2017 09:53AM
I've read a lot posts and have been doing some soul searching and some internet searching. I read something online from "Cult Awareness and Information Center" titled "The Walk of John Robert Stevens." And I found the following very interesting.
"Martha Stevens, who was married to Apostle Stevens for 40 years, filed for divorce in 1979. During the proceedings, she revealed that Stevens' holdings could amount to $40 million. A California newspaper then launched an investigation of the Church of the Living Word, and learned that it had conducted a Nevada silver mine fraud that allegedly cheated members of the cult out of at least $500,000. Stevens also possessed an extensive art collection and $29,000 in silver bars, and hired an attorney for the divorce suit, paying him $10,000 plus $125 per hour. Martha claims, 'My husband has total control of the church and its funds, and total access to all church finances. He is, in essence, the church himself.'"
Gee, I wish I would have known this when I working year after year in Shiloh for $80 a month. I might have asked for a raise!
A post regarding Martha being a "Nephilim," and a scriptural definition of that term:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: larry bobo
Date: May 26, 2016 09:27AM
I was making light of being referred to as a Nephilim channel if you showed any type of disagreement with the leadership of TLWF. John tossed the word around frequently and I don’t think many stopped to think about what it actually meant. The Nephilim were the offspring of the sons of God who had interbred with the daughters of men – again jokingly, some think they were aliens. My real point is that is that it was an absurd name to label people who didn’t agree with you. We were so star-struck with John, we simply checked out brains at the door and continued to scream “Death to the Nephilim!” who apparently looked mostly like Martha.
Another post identifying Martha as Nephilim:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: kBOY
Date: October 16, 2018 02:50AM
I never remember being told from the pulpit what exactly all these lawsuits were about. All most of us knew was that Martha was the nephilim, so any facts in the matter regarding her legal rights could have no bearing, as we would tolerate only one outcome, for the Kingdom was at stake.
Death prayers mentioned yet again:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain
Date: December 05, 2015 11:21AM
paleface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone know when the prayers for the death of
> Martha Stevens started? Was it 1974 or so? Or
> was it earlier?
Not sure. It was in full swing when I joined in '76...
Kbyrne comments on his/her stint in ('75-'80) and what is was like. And yes, the subject of "killing the nephilim" comes up:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: kbyrne
Date: May 28, 2019 09:32AM
Thank for your perspective as a long-time member of the Washington, IA church. I knew very little about the church when I went to Shiloh in 1975. I'm not sure if it was always the case, but at some point it became an "us and them," dynamic. I regret to say that out of arrogance, I (and I think others as well from Shiloh) believed that we were the more enlightened ones. Without the members from Washington, IA, Shiloh would not have happened or certainly would have never functioned.
So from my memory of my time in Shiloh, ('75 to '80):
I specifically went to Shiloh in 1975 to work in the garden. On-the-job training. Never remember being told anything about dehydration or sunburn. I was 19.
I did not pay for room and board. I'm not sure how I could have on $80 a month.
With that I bought all personal items, shampoo, clothes, etc. I did from time to time get outside work during downtime at Shiloh; The Calendar Factory, Osincup's Drug Store, Hy-Vee. I never made enough in those five years to file a tax return. It brings up a good point, how was the money we were paid accounted for on the books of Shiloh or on TLW's end of things? Were we shown as employees? I eventually got involved full time in transcribing, first working out of the Washington, IA church, and then in Shiloh. That was a 24-7 commitment.
A typical schedule at Shiloh--for most of the year, it was up at 6:00 a.m., worked until 5:00 p.m., then services in the evening. Although in the heat of the summer, I believe we started earlier, ended earlier, and returned to work in the cooler part of the evening. Of course, throw in chicken catching mostly in the evenings or on a weekend, if my memory is correct, and that would be after you worked all day. We had services, intercession, worship every night. We were encouraged to attend all services in Washington, IA, which we did. A bus would take us. There was multiple services on Sunday, I believe two in Washington, IA, and two at Shiloh. Again, it's been a long time so .... We sang some older more traditional worship songs, but seems like old songs often got new lyrics. I seem to remember more acapella in Shiloh. I believe there was a piano, but I could very well be mistaken on that.
We were indoctrinated every day. Our focus was singular, get JRS into the Kingdom and he would take us with him. Slay the Nephilim through violent intercession. We were either releasing something or binding something.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2019 12:43AM by changedagain.
JimK3 wrote:
I remember being there one time for what was referred to as a "siege" or perhaps a "victory siege." This siege was even longer; I believe it went on for days if not weeks and it was 24/7 in the sanctuary. I remember falling asleep on the floor there very late at night night on multiple occasions. I believe--and again please check me--that this siege was a defensive action against the death of John Robert Stevens.
There have been a number of people in this forum that have written about the "siege" in Shiloh, along with living and working at Shiloh during that time period. Lots of references to "violent intercession,' much of it focused on supposedly protecting John from satanic forces that sought to destroy his ministry as the 'Apostle to the Kingdom.' It was understood by many in the fellowship that the main threat came from his wife Martha, who had been identified as a 'Nephilim' to the congregation by John. They eventually divorced in '79, following an intense court battle over the ownership of substantial church assets. John married his secretary, Marilyn Holbrook, approximately a year later. He died June 4, 1983 of cancer. His wife Marilyn remarried a year later to Gary Hargrave, and together they led the fellowship 30+ years.
A post regarding John and Martha's divorce:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: kbyrne ()
Date: April 26, 2017 09:53AM
I've read a lot posts and have been doing some soul searching and some internet searching. I read something online from "Cult Awareness and Information Center" titled "The Walk of John Robert Stevens." And I found the following very interesting.
"Martha Stevens, who was married to Apostle Stevens for 40 years, filed for divorce in 1979. During the proceedings, she revealed that Stevens' holdings could amount to $40 million. A California newspaper then launched an investigation of the Church of the Living Word, and learned that it had conducted a Nevada silver mine fraud that allegedly cheated members of the cult out of at least $500,000. Stevens also possessed an extensive art collection and $29,000 in silver bars, and hired an attorney for the divorce suit, paying him $10,000 plus $125 per hour. Martha claims, 'My husband has total control of the church and its funds, and total access to all church finances. He is, in essence, the church himself.'"
Gee, I wish I would have known this when I working year after year in Shiloh for $80 a month. I might have asked for a raise!
A post regarding Martha being a "Nephilim," and a scriptural definition of that term:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: larry bobo
Date: May 26, 2016 09:27AM
I was making light of being referred to as a Nephilim channel if you showed any type of disagreement with the leadership of TLWF. John tossed the word around frequently and I don’t think many stopped to think about what it actually meant. The Nephilim were the offspring of the sons of God who had interbred with the daughters of men – again jokingly, some think they were aliens. My real point is that is that it was an absurd name to label people who didn’t agree with you. We were so star-struck with John, we simply checked out brains at the door and continued to scream “Death to the Nephilim!” who apparently looked mostly like Martha.
Another post identifying Martha as Nephilim:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: kBOY
Date: October 16, 2018 02:50AM
I never remember being told from the pulpit what exactly all these lawsuits were about. All most of us knew was that Martha was the nephilim, so any facts in the matter regarding her legal rights could have no bearing, as we would tolerate only one outcome, for the Kingdom was at stake.
Death prayers mentioned yet again:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain
Date: December 05, 2015 11:21AM
paleface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone know when the prayers for the death of
> Martha Stevens started? Was it 1974 or so? Or
> was it earlier?
Not sure. It was in full swing when I joined in '76...
Kbyrne comments on his/her stint in ('75-'80) and what is was like. And yes, the subject of "killing the nephilim" comes up:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: kbyrne
Date: May 28, 2019 09:32AM
Thank for your perspective as a long-time member of the Washington, IA church. I knew very little about the church when I went to Shiloh in 1975. I'm not sure if it was always the case, but at some point it became an "us and them," dynamic. I regret to say that out of arrogance, I (and I think others as well from Shiloh) believed that we were the more enlightened ones. Without the members from Washington, IA, Shiloh would not have happened or certainly would have never functioned.
So from my memory of my time in Shiloh, ('75 to '80):
I specifically went to Shiloh in 1975 to work in the garden. On-the-job training. Never remember being told anything about dehydration or sunburn. I was 19.
I did not pay for room and board. I'm not sure how I could have on $80 a month.
With that I bought all personal items, shampoo, clothes, etc. I did from time to time get outside work during downtime at Shiloh; The Calendar Factory, Osincup's Drug Store, Hy-Vee. I never made enough in those five years to file a tax return. It brings up a good point, how was the money we were paid accounted for on the books of Shiloh or on TLW's end of things? Were we shown as employees? I eventually got involved full time in transcribing, first working out of the Washington, IA church, and then in Shiloh. That was a 24-7 commitment.
A typical schedule at Shiloh--for most of the year, it was up at 6:00 a.m., worked until 5:00 p.m., then services in the evening. Although in the heat of the summer, I believe we started earlier, ended earlier, and returned to work in the cooler part of the evening. Of course, throw in chicken catching mostly in the evenings or on a weekend, if my memory is correct, and that would be after you worked all day. We had services, intercession, worship every night. We were encouraged to attend all services in Washington, IA, which we did. A bus would take us. There was multiple services on Sunday, I believe two in Washington, IA, and two at Shiloh. Again, it's been a long time so .... We sang some older more traditional worship songs, but seems like old songs often got new lyrics. I seem to remember more acapella in Shiloh. I believe there was a piano, but I could very well be mistaken on that.
We were indoctrinated every day. Our focus was singular, get JRS into the Kingdom and he would take us with him. Slay the Nephilim through violent intercession. We were either releasing something or binding something.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2019 12:43AM by changedagain.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: July 19, 2019 03:58AM
This post by 'recoveredfinally,' a young adult commenting on her summer camp experience at Shiloh. This was posted way back in October of 2006.
The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: recoveredfinally
Date: October 07, 2006 10:46AM
Shiloh really was a slave camp. I was forced to work all day long in the blazing heat cutting rose bushes one summer. I fainted from exhaustian. Most summers were spent like this: wake up at 6am, take a 5 minute shower that is timed, go to breakfast, go "wait on the Lord" for an hour, go discuss waiting on the Lord, get your personal list of chores, do your chores from about 10am - 6pm. Eat dinner, go to church, sleep, wake up again. Some of the chores included:
1) weeding outdoors on the side of a pebble road that lead into the entrance of the church - and it was at least 90 + degrees -- or the humidity made it feel that way
2) weeding in the man-made lagoon where one year I was attacked by leeches when I sat in the sand
3) serving on the kitchen staff - the dish washing room was horrible because the dining room was already hot, but combined with the steam of the dish machine - it was 10 x worse!
4) scrubbing toilets and showers with a toothbrush
AND so forth....
It was misery. I can vouch for that! :(
(I was involved in the young adult summer program from 1992-1994)
The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: recoveredfinally
Date: October 07, 2006 10:46AM
Shiloh really was a slave camp. I was forced to work all day long in the blazing heat cutting rose bushes one summer. I fainted from exhaustian. Most summers were spent like this: wake up at 6am, take a 5 minute shower that is timed, go to breakfast, go "wait on the Lord" for an hour, go discuss waiting on the Lord, get your personal list of chores, do your chores from about 10am - 6pm. Eat dinner, go to church, sleep, wake up again. Some of the chores included:
1) weeding outdoors on the side of a pebble road that lead into the entrance of the church - and it was at least 90 + degrees -- or the humidity made it feel that way
2) weeding in the man-made lagoon where one year I was attacked by leeches when I sat in the sand
3) serving on the kitchen staff - the dish washing room was horrible because the dining room was already hot, but combined with the steam of the dish machine - it was 10 x worse!
4) scrubbing toilets and showers with a toothbrush
AND so forth....
It was misery. I can vouch for that! :(
(I was involved in the young adult summer program from 1992-1994)
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
NancyB
()
Date: July 19, 2019 10:57AM
Good Question on 7/18/19 the Jewel when you asked
"Did JRS ever claim that title (Dr. or PHD)? That would be a bit out of character since most of the time he preached against the seminary’s and the academic approach referring to them as cemeteries."
I don't have a perfect answer because it was so long ago.
In the early years I do recall seeing "dr" before his name in print. I may have even heard him introduced at Dr Stevens when I was kid.
The same for other ministers I knew out side or our church. I heard some of them correct people one way or the other if they used "doctor" or did not say "doctor" with their name. Dr so-so was kind of a snooty thing-IMO as a 10 or 12 year old.
I was in a lot of churches as a kid due to my parents profession . I knew priests, minister, pastors, reverends, doctor- you name it- it was boring for a kid who had to wear a hat and white gloves in hot church - and then I had no idea how to be polite to address these men to tell them I was with the photographer. I was not alone in not knowing the proper title to use.
To tell you the truth I think some people were trying to be respectful of the minister John Robert Stevens with out really knowing that he did not have a college phd. I think the doctor thing is probably an innocent tho' possibly a legal mistake of misrepresentation of ones earned degree.
There are many people who have "honorary doctorate degrees" from Harvard and Yale or even Oral Roberts University that did not do the work.
Personally, I don't think the "doctor" thing is all that significant - just because it was commonly an honest mistake back in the '40's and '50's and '60's People were referred to as Mr, Mrs, or Miss. A minister was respected, but most people did not want to call him Mr or Mrs or even Miss.
I knew JRS since the late '50's when I was a child- so this is my opinion. I have no idea whose idea it was to put the title of "dr" in print. JRS certainly did not correct it.
I had questioned the doctor of divinity thing myself I found think link helpful [www.apologeticsindex.org]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2019 11:16AM by NancyB.
"Did JRS ever claim that title (Dr. or PHD)? That would be a bit out of character since most of the time he preached against the seminary’s and the academic approach referring to them as cemeteries."
I don't have a perfect answer because it was so long ago.
In the early years I do recall seeing "dr" before his name in print. I may have even heard him introduced at Dr Stevens when I was kid.
The same for other ministers I knew out side or our church. I heard some of them correct people one way or the other if they used "doctor" or did not say "doctor" with their name. Dr so-so was kind of a snooty thing-IMO as a 10 or 12 year old.
I was in a lot of churches as a kid due to my parents profession . I knew priests, minister, pastors, reverends, doctor- you name it- it was boring for a kid who had to wear a hat and white gloves in hot church - and then I had no idea how to be polite to address these men to tell them I was with the photographer. I was not alone in not knowing the proper title to use.
To tell you the truth I think some people were trying to be respectful of the minister John Robert Stevens with out really knowing that he did not have a college phd. I think the doctor thing is probably an innocent tho' possibly a legal mistake of misrepresentation of ones earned degree.
There are many people who have "honorary doctorate degrees" from Harvard and Yale or even Oral Roberts University that did not do the work.
Personally, I don't think the "doctor" thing is all that significant - just because it was commonly an honest mistake back in the '40's and '50's and '60's People were referred to as Mr, Mrs, or Miss. A minister was respected, but most people did not want to call him Mr or Mrs or even Miss.
I knew JRS since the late '50's when I was a child- so this is my opinion. I have no idea whose idea it was to put the title of "dr" in print. JRS certainly did not correct it.
I had questioned the doctor of divinity thing myself I found think link helpful [www.apologeticsindex.org]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2019 11:16AM by NancyB.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Onion
()
Date: July 19, 2019 11:54AM
Memories of Dr. Stevens. I remember being told (by Marilyn) that Martha always wanted him to go by the name "Dr. Stevens" because he had the doctorate in theology, but that JRS felt it was a pride thing that he didn't want because he was humble. Now that so much has been exposed, it is probably more logical that it wasn't a true doctorate and he didn't want to get caught.
Reep and Changed - Mentioning the Fred and Ethyl books reminded me of some of the roadblocks I faced in the last year or so when I was trying to locate financial information. From many sources I learned (or had confirmed) just how untouchable ANY financial records are for TLW. Rick's kingdom. I've heard more than one story of people being fired or transferred for even asking accounting questions. I then spoke to one of the "audit" people who worked with all of the churches in the fellowship to ask her what she knew about things. She had nothing but glowing reports on the cooperation of all of the churches with the records they were supposed to produce, correct, etc.
I went back to ask particularly about TLW and was told - "Oh no, we didn't work with TLW at all because it isn't a church."
Excuse me? JRS made it a church before he died and they have services and they are a church, legally.
"Oh No. TLW is different. We didn't review any of their books because we weren't supposed to -- because TLW is different."
So I guess that answers some questions but provides the basis for many, many, more questions. The first off the top of my head is, "What are they hiding?" Little Ricky knows.
Reep and Changed - Mentioning the Fred and Ethyl books reminded me of some of the roadblocks I faced in the last year or so when I was trying to locate financial information. From many sources I learned (or had confirmed) just how untouchable ANY financial records are for TLW. Rick's kingdom. I've heard more than one story of people being fired or transferred for even asking accounting questions. I then spoke to one of the "audit" people who worked with all of the churches in the fellowship to ask her what she knew about things. She had nothing but glowing reports on the cooperation of all of the churches with the records they were supposed to produce, correct, etc.
I went back to ask particularly about TLW and was told - "Oh no, we didn't work with TLW at all because it isn't a church."
Excuse me? JRS made it a church before he died and they have services and they are a church, legally.
"Oh No. TLW is different. We didn't review any of their books because we weren't supposed to -- because TLW is different."
So I guess that answers some questions but provides the basis for many, many, more questions. The first off the top of my head is, "What are they hiding?" Little Ricky knows.
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