changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Willing homes to TLW?
> Asked to provide a detailed personal financial
> statements?
>
> Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John
> Robert Stevens
> Posted by: Invisible
> Date: April 29, 2017
>
> My point in mentioning the ballroom gowns was to
> show how naive I was. In reality the divorce was
> about business...
>
> I believe we did not realize we were sacrificing
> to make John and Martha personally well off. This
> is not what we were fed or the atmosphere that was
> created for us to be givers. I think most members
> thought the leaders were like us - that we were
> all on the same page and in the same boat
> together.
>
> Many of us continued to be naive for much of our
> youth - ...
>
>
> By giving most of our all - to the church for
> years , many of us did not buy homes for ourselves
> or our families, we did not build for ourselves or
> our own individual futures - but those of us who
> did own or were purchasing homes - the leadership
> in the late 1980's had the gall to ask and to
> inspire any one who would be willing to will and
> to give their homes to TLW upon their death - they
> asked for their homes be given to TLW - for FREE
> with out saying the words (for free) . Also
> stating that the services of the law offices would
> help draw up the necessary legal paper work for
> these members.
>
> Prior to asking the members to will their homes to
> TLW - with enough time lapsing between - was that
> the ministry asked the members of the church at a
> South Gate service to give them a detailed
> personal financial statement - letting them know
> how much money they were earning - including
> details of what they were tithing, including all
> the debts and expenses they were paying out each
> month.
>

YIKES! I did not know about willing our homes- I was gone by then. In Washington this is what they do with the UP home. People would be taken care of for the rest of their lives- they could live in a home on Up Property; assisted living or nursing care when the time came.

We were supposed to have a home for the aging- which did not happen. I will assume that this may have been the selling point for willing in order to go for long term end of life care like UP Home in Washington, Iowa- I do not know.

When we were young we were supposed to be naive.- We were deceived about their life style. I have come to the conclusion that Martha thought JRS owned the church -so then she was entitled to 1/2 of his business.

It is is interesting that they knew how little people lived on but did not care. "The people have no bread- Let them eat cake."

Gary Hargrave, you were in charge and yes you admitted failure. We the people need an accounting of why the homes That the Church of the Living Word inherited did NOT go to a nursing home at Shiloh. Where did the money go?

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And now, from our moderator:
>
> Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John
> Robert Stevens
> Posted by: rrmoderator
> Date: November 10, 2018
>
> I am very sorry for the children that were raised
> in destructive cults. You are right they have no
> choice and this is a terrible thing.
>
> But there is such a thing as coercive persuasion
> and influence used to gain undue influence over
> people. The leadership, which knowingly used such
> techniques to break down the critical thinking of
> members did that.
>
> Blaming the victims of such coercive persuasion
> schemes, or inferring that they are somehow
> enablers rather than victims is factually
> incorrect and misses the pivotal point of
> destructive cults. That is, the deliberate
> deception and manipulation of people without their
> informed consent.
>
> No one that becomes involved with a destructive
> cult is informed from the beginning what they are
> really getting involved in. They are not told what
> demands and/or ethical compromises will be
> required of them in the long run. Instead, it's a
> "bait a switch" con. The bait is typically very
> attractive, idealistic and appealing. But once
> people are hooked through coercive persuasion they
> find out that the bait to get them in is not what
> they end up with ultimately.

Thank you Changed for quoting.

Thank you rrmoderator for clearly pointing out how the cult tactics of "bait and switch" by The Church of the Living Word now under a different name Living Word Fellowship. Insightful.

Nancy wrote:
<YIKES! I did not know about willing our homes- I was gone by then.

Yeah, I wasn't in one of those South Gate services where the ministry (whoever that happened to be) strongly suggested that church members will their homes to TLW...assuming they own one. Also, the repeated requests for detailed personal financial statements. I was still living in the Redlands at the time. I wonder who came up with that idea? Nevermind


The leadership in the late 1980's had the gall to ask and to
inspire any one who would be willing to will and to give their homes
to TLW upon their death - they asked for their homes be given to TLW -
for FREE with out saying the words (for free) . Also stating that the
services of the law offices would help draw up the necessary legal paper
work for these members.

These pages were shared on Facebook: how many points can you see were not ever followed through with by The Church of the Living Word ? The name was changed to Living Word Fellowship

We the people were promised a certain church protocol but the promise was never fulfilled as written.





[www.facebook.com]

Quote

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: June 20, 2019 07:14AM

Willing homes to TLW?
Asked to provide detailed personal financial statements?

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Invisible
Date: April 29, 2017

My point in mentioning the ballroom gowns was to show how naive I was. In reality the divorce was about business. But what later surprised me was that Martha wanted 1/2 of what the people thought belonged to them. That was reality. According to the law she was entitled in the eyes of the court, if possible to continue living the lifestyle she had enjoyed and grown accustomed to while married to John.

I believe we did not realize we were sacrificing to make John and Martha personally well off. This is not what we were fed or the atmosphere that was created for us to be givers. I think most members thought the leaders were like us - that we were all on the same page and in the same boat together.

Many of us continued to be naive for much of our youth - we discounted ourselves as much less important than what we believed we were supporting and investing our years, our lives and our finances in - for the vision that had been given to us, as a people.

As church members we naively believed that the years of our personal sacrifice, our free voluntary labor, frequent offerings, double tithing, and the pledges we made over the years to pay off the South Gate church property - we thought what we were giving to and towards - personally belonged to all of us - together. It was a state of heart but it was not realistic, prudent, or sensible.

In reality, we really did not have a say in whatever was decided by those who owned the South Gate church. We did not have any real say in what the owners of the property should or should not do, could or could not do with the property.

By giving most of our all to the church for years, many of us did not buy homes for ourselves or our families, we did not build for ourselves or our own individual futures - but those of us who did own or were purchasing homes - the leadership in the late 1980's had the gall to ask and to inspire any one who would be willing to will and to give their homes to TLW upon their death. They asked for their homes be given to TLW - for FREE with out saying the words (for free). Also stating that the services of the law offices would help draw up the necessary legal paper work for these members.

Prior to asking the members to will their homes to TLW - with enough time lapsing between--was that the ministry asked the members of the church at a South Gate service to give them a detailed personal financial statement - letting them know how much money they were earning - including details of what they were tithing, including all the debts and expenses they were paying out each month.

Some of the members must not have been turning in a financial statement to the ministry because it was brought up again at another service that every one needed to turn this in. Stupid, naive me! I had already turned my hand written statement in!

Of course it was until years later that I realized that they had no business asking me or any one else as a member of a church - for a personal financial statement. When you are naive, you don't think to be offended or taken a back by such a request by the ministry.

Invisible noted that the members of TLWF thought that the leaders were living as sacrificially as they, the people, were. The sad fact of the matter is that they were not. Asking people to will their homes is beyond the pale.

Sometime in the early to mid-nineties, there was a financial "class" held at CLW with an attorney present so that people could sign powers of attorney at the class if they wished. People were also advised that they should make a will. There was a strong suggestion made that when making a will, the people should will ten percent of their estate to TLWF.

It's not bad enough to bleed people dry while they are alive, they should also give after death. I would say "unbelievable". But unfortunately it's not.

In this forum re The Church of the Church of the Living Word, John Robert Stevens; Gary Hargraves re-named Living Word Fellowship we have talked about plagiarism and questioned the conflict and confusion about JRS Latter Rain or not Latter Rain.

I think the Walk would have been more transparent had we jsut had the book on Later Rain rather than the way JRS and m& G introduced it in such a sneaking way- a their revelation from their god. I think the article spells it out - rather than being sneaky as i think the teachers were.

I found an article that I believe is worth exploring on the Latter Rain. I figure if you have the time to skim it you can compare for your self if teaching of The Walk is scriptural or not.

My greatest concern is that were survivors feel we were duped to believe that John Robert Stevens gave a "pure unique word from God". He told us that he was an apostle appointed by God. Then it was said that JRS passed 'the mantle on to Marilyn and Gary Hargrave. ( I'm convinced is bullshit.)

Check it out and see what you think? Lots of religious authorities are quoted and compared with scriptures.

What you chose to believe is between you and God-what came out of The Walk's teachings is what we are recovering from - I hope you draw your conclusions after taking the time to read this when you can.

Quote: "The Latter Rain teachers, healers, and evangelists were forced out of their many former associations into what they felt was a "wilderness church" experience, where they
regrouped, and strengthened their own ministries. Then in the late 60' s and 70' s they began
the self-conscious re-infiltration of other denominations under the "Charismatic" label. "

As previously pointed out the Manifest Sons of God heresy was not accepted by the majority of
Charismatics. Most held to the orthodox teaching of the rapture, but in the mid-80' s this began to change as
the Manifest Sons of God doctrine re-emerged in the form of the "Kingdom Now" or "Kingdom/Dominion"
Movement. According to Richard Riss:

. . .Elements of various eschatological views of the Latter Rain Movement were
adopted by many Charismatics throughout the world. These views became prominent in the
ministries of Bill Britton in Springfield, Missouri. . J. Preston Eby in El Paso, Texas. . John
Robert Stevens in Los Angeles, California... By 1976 some of these ministries were quite
extensive. end quote

[archive.org]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2019 04:22AM by NancyB.

paleface Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is interesting reading the Wikipedia entries
> for "John Robert Stevens" and "The Living Word
> Fellowship". Certain LW members must be assigned
> by G&M to monitor and try to keep these sites
> sanitized. If you click on the "talk" tab, you
> can read the edit notes. Back and forth it goes.
> It's a tough job because most of the Christian
> world regards TLWF as a cult. Maybe they should
> just give up and call a spade a spade. A while
> back, I recall Gary saying " you know, we aren't
> really Christians anymore."

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote
jhorning
I remember, after JRS died, Gary
> said on a taped word that it was essentially over
> for John back in 1974 (I think that was the year
> he said), but they needed to keep the people busy
> so they came up with the unending intersession for
> him.

>
> John,
> Do you remember why Gary said it was over for John
> in '74? And did he really say that intercession
> was created to keep the people 'busy'? If so, I
> was one unnecessarily busy guy for an eight-year
> period.

Thanks Changed for this old post.
Latter Rain concept of Spiritual Warfare- keep'em busy fighting an unseen battle

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCSLC Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > This Pope has been there and knows -------
> almost
> > too good to be true.
>
> That's why it is baffling that Gary has chosen
> this Pope to be connected to. They seem to have
> opposite attitudes.

My theory is that it has to do with the word "unity" one of the Latter Rain principles I read in this link [archive.org]

Quote
Anointing or Apostacy The Latter Rain Legacy

Quote Ecumenical mania "Robert Schuller declared: "It's time for Protestants to go to the shepherd [the pope] and say, "What do we have to
do to come home?"

Rick Joyner proclaims:

The Biblical admonition to "forsake not the assemblying" was not just referring to meetings, but the joining together of the different parts of the body. The Lord sees only one Church
. The Lord's people are going to be freed from the Spirit of division which emphasizes differences instead of our common purpose. A severe judgement is coming upon all who separate instead of join, who are in fact building for themselves instead of for Him. This includes individuals, local churches, as well as denominations and the different streams
flowing within the Church. . .Presently the different streams are in the Lord's purpose, but ultimately all of them will flow together into one river. At that time this river will swell to become an irresistible force before which no other religion, philosophy, or doctrine can stand.
89 (Emphasis mine.)
This unbiblical emphasis upon unity, however, is not the only Latter Rain distinctive to resurface as"present truth" in the Charismatic Renewal. ...end quote

Invisible Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RE: Dangers of a spiritual hierarchy.
>
> John Stevens once said, to the ministries in the
> hearing of all of the congregation -" If you could
> get control of all of the people and their lives
> and get them to do what you wanted them to do -
> you would not have the oneness that God is looking
> for. "
>
> Seems John Steven's realized and understood that
> controlling people and controlling their lives,
> was not the will of God.
>
> Tragically after John died - G&M - over the next
> several years after John's death, worked to get
> control of all of the ministry and to get control
> over their lives as ministries and then after G&M
> worked to get control of the lives of the members
> of the church, and if any ministry refused to do
> what they willed them to do by 1988 or 1989 , that
> ministry was publically vilified to the members
> of the church and excommunicated from the church
> as being rebellious against God and as being
> unfit for service as a ministry.
>
> Bill Maybee, Bob Barton, and Dan Statton were
> Commissioned and set in as apostolic ministries by
> John Stevens and had been serving in the ministry
> for some years prior to John's death and they were
> among the first men after John's death to be
> publically excommunicated by Gary from the church
> as ministries and as members of the church .
>
> The reason Gary gave publically to the members of
> the church - for excommunicating the first two men
> was that they were rebellious against God because
> they refused to obey Marilyn. Dan Statton was
> defrocked publically, as being rebellious against
> God because they wanted him to pastor a church in
> another state and he refused to move to that
> state, wishing to remain pastoring in the Ca.
> churches.
>
> Even young children were voicing the report, that
> Dan Statton was being rebellious against God..
>
> Any ministry who would not willing serve in the
> ministry as a yes man - was eliminated as being a
> ministry. And after Gary & Marilyn established
> themselves , as being the spiritual ruler over all
> the ministry - then the members of the church
> began suffering the same consequences as the
> ministry had suffered under Gary and Marilyn ,
> who came to rule over the congregation and all
> their lives.
>
> And the reason this is an important thing to point
> out is because after all these years later - in
> 2013 - John Miller who was also commissioned to
> serve as an apostolic ministry for the church -
> was excommunicated from the church as an
> apostolic ministry - for not mouthing what is to
> be mouthed by the will of those who are considered
> to be his spiritual higher ups - and all these
> years later G&M still live their lives to direct
> and to have control over the minds and the lives
> of the ministry and the members of the church.
>
> The ministries of the church after John death had
> become no more, than a bunch of yes men and are
> still a bunch of yes men today. And If I remember
> correctly , which I do. John Steven's also voiced
> to the congregation that he was not grooming and
> bringing up the men in the ministry to be a bunch
> of yes men. Because if they were yes men - then
> they would not be able to know or to confirm what
> was or was not the will of God - when they came
> together to make decisions.
>
> The Church Of The Living Word was founded by John
> Robert Stevens.
>
> The Church Of The Living Word did not originate
> with Gary.. Gary did not commission or set John
> Robert Stevens in to the ministry, Gary has been
> building on the foundation that another man laid,
> but not building carefully. The church is not
> Gary's, nor does it belong to John Steven's,
> according to what is written in the Scriptures -
> the Church belongs to no man, it belongs to
> Christ.
>
> Inside and with in the church men as ministries-
> are not free to disagree with one another, they
> have been convinced to believe that only Gary and
> Marilyn knows the will of God for them and their
> lives and what these ministries believe and are
> giving themselves to, is in direct opposition to
> what John Stevens taught.
>
> As long as the members of the church put their
> head in the sand like the ostrich and as long as
> they cover their ears , their eyes and their
> mouths with their hands - like the three monkeys,
> they will continue to be yes men, and yes members
> and Gary will continue to believe it was given to
> him , to rule over the lives of the members of the
> church, because no one from with in the church -
> is allowed to seek God to know God's Will,
> concerning any of the controversial matters,
> spoken of - by those who have been put out of the
> church.