From way back on this forum I think is worth repeating some of the occult practices we were taught in TLW cult. JRS sneaked into youth groups with our parent's knowledge. it in- then in the next chapter Marilyn moved on to other things that were oh so not biblical.

Since I left in '83 officially, I am curious as to if Marilyn carried on these occult practices or not? did any one ever keep on the a This is the Doctrine We Believe in our Church ( cult )?

larry bobo Wrote:Quote larry bobo August 11, 2013 11:29PM
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it is important to recognize that what we
> may have thought was a revelation from God in TLWF
> may have actually been mental programming though
> suggestion.

The mechanics of "opening our
> spirits" and "singing in the spirit" placed us in
> a highly suggestive "Alpha state", similar to
> hypnosis, where what we heard bypassed our
> conscious minds and the normal critical thinking
> process and went unchecked into our subconscious
> minds.

Many have suggested over the years that
> the trance-like state that we equated with
> spirituality had its roots in New Age teaching,
> not Christianity. Once the bubble pops, it seems
> silly that obedience to another human will produce
> resurrection life - especially since they do not
> have it themselves to give - at least until they
> break though into the next new level. "Serve me
> now and I'll give you a million dollars right
> after I win the Lottery. God has revealed to me
> that I'm His favorite and He wants everyone else
> to obey me in all my confusion as an expression of
> their love for Him. It doesn't even matter if I
> am right - God will honor your submission."
> Really?
>
> I would suspect most of us had times where the
> "current word" went cross-grained to what our
> hearts and the scriptures were telling us, and
> over time, the red flags we suppressed turned out
> to be true warnings. I have been asked many
> times by other Christians, "Didn,t you have a
> Bible? Haven't you read, 'Watch out that no one
> deceives you. For many will come in my name,
> claiming, I am the Christ, and will deceive many.
> At that time if anyone (except JRS and G&M -
> because a revelation of them is greater than
> Jesus' words :)) says to you "Look, here is the
> Christ!" or "There he is!" do not believe it. For
> false Christs and false prophets will appear and
> perform great signs and miracles to deceive even
> the elect, if that were possible. See I have told
> you ahead of time.' However, none of these other
> Christians had actually ever met someone who
> claimed to be Christ in the flesh and wanted
> lordship over another person's life - much less
> allowed their name to take the place of God in
> worship songs.


Posted by: paleface ()
Date: August 14, 2013 05:16AM
Quote:

"The shepherding movement in the Living Word started up after John had died. It was a follow-on to some of the ideas presented in the set of messages he gave just before he died called "The Unfolding".

"The idea was that we should be able to submit to each other in "designated relationships", similar to Timothy submitting to and serving Paul. (or Elisha and Elijah). It was to be a "chain of relationships" where all would be connected and in submission. In theory, maybe it would have worked, but it was unchecked.
"People lorded over others. People got hurt. Really bad in some instances where unreasonable service was demanded by the lead sheep from the submissive sheep. I think JRS never would have approved of how this ended up. It morphed into something out of control. I believe it is still this way today in the fellowship.

"The pitfall of these designated relationships is that people without shepherds hearts and the needed maturity and wisdom, are put in charge of other people's lives. The submissive sheep is supposed to open up and tell the lead sheep everything and submit their entire lives to them. (Remember, this is layman to layman.)

"There is no trained clergy involved in most of this. And then the sheep that is the lead, is supposed to be a submissive sheep to another person - eventually leading up to an elder or pastor. The lead sheep was supposed to be "Christ in the Flesh" to the submissive sheep. The submissive sheep was to regard the lead sheep's directives as if they came from God. I was there. I heard all of this with my own ears. I also saw the terrible damage it did when it went wrong. End quote from paleface



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2019 08:38AM by NancyB.

I believe that lack of real revelation is still prevalent today in what remains of The Church of the Living Word. members and leaders are human beings- we all have human needs that need to be addressed by people who have the training and knowledge base to treat us.

Mental health issues were never properly addressed- see post quoted below which this subject up.
Beside mental health when people got sick or had a disability - what happened? did TLW nurse them back to health?

Nope. The forum has all too many sad stories of our people who were the most vulnerable got s**t on. What the point of struggling to never be good enough for a kingdom to come that only profits the leaders of The Church of the Living Word?
To stay in this cult and then to have no one listen I dare say have caused all too many to be depressed and or have PTSD. For any of us to get therapy we needed was a "sin" only because someone who was not being controlled would have seen the truth.

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> puddington,
>
>
>
> I recall spiraling down in depression. One of the
> older pastors expressed concern. John said it was
> tribulation. John lacked discernment. He saw
> mental health through a lens of spirituality. Most
> charismatics do. They ignore the biological and
> psychological components. Brain abnormalities and
> genetics. The brain can get sick and depressed.
> Sometimes the brain heals itself. However, some
> mental health professions think this. Untreated
> depression can set you up. For a life time of
> mental health problems. I suspect some members.
> Who have depression. Self medicate with booze.
> There's better ways to treat depression.

Listening to messages such as the one Gary brought less than a year ago to the fellowship is certainly not conducive to having a healthy state of mind. Of course, it contains the usual threats to those who stray from obedience to the 'Father' (aka Gary). Cloudwatcher shares his/her concerns following the summary of this "word."

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: July 13, 2018 10:08PM

"Our Survival Is Based On Obedience"
June 29, 2018 - by Gary Hargrave

"This Word shows us that as we move out of a place of relative safety in our walk with God and into harm’s way, our obedience to the Father will determine life or death. We will face lies about the Word of God and against the Father Himself which will attempt to deceive us into being disobedient and losing God’s protection."

cloudwatcher wrote:
I am really concerned about this. He is headed in a direction that could very well bring devastating harm to people who have faithfully followed--when he tells them they have failed and fallen out of favor with God and God will now be raising up people in Brazil to replace them. He will not do this gently. When M's funeral was held in Shiloh--I truly feared a Jonestown--but it would be too obvious. People can be isolated and if the disappear of the face of the earth it will be an isolated "collateral damage" kind of thing. This is dead serious. I hope I am not just being nutty. But I can't imagine the level of depression setting in on people right now--the fear -- and the weariness. Just sayin'. Hope I am wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2019 11:01AM by changedagain.

This is extremely disturbing to read what Gary has said.

I think it is a great risk for those of us who so boldly post what we see as the truth. I'm going to keep posting my typos to get the message out there, anyway.

I know we who have been out for decades understand how confusing it will be for those left inside about what way to go. I takes time to figure it out - I don't know that there is much time left with the truth walls closing in on Gary. His own words will convict him - there is no love only demands ( I listened to what messages i can grab for free - ugh not worth my time.)

"Our Survival Is Based On Obedience"
June 29, 2018 - by Gary Hargrave

"This Word shows us that as we move out of a place of relative safety in our walk with God and into harm’s way, our obedience to the Father will determine life or death. We will face lies about the Word of God and against the Father Himself which will attempt to deceive us into being disobedient and losing God’s protection."

It just seems as though God the Father is unduly hypersensitive to being disrespected. My encouragement to him is to cease being so obsessed about a very small group of people on this planet serving him 24/7 and propping up his frail ego. You would think as God, he would be familiar with the far reaches of the universe, and could choose a more healthy way of spending eternity than incessantly berating people on this planet for not fulfilling his every perceived need. A pleasant hobby perhaps...you know, one that hopefully doesn't involve killing/torturing etc.

Respectfully,
a concerned human being

No knowledge of Rick's activities through the years?

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: larry bobo
Date: October 22, 2018 06:38AM

It has been Gary’s MO to direct the activities of TLWF and then remove middle management to take the fall when obviously wrong behavior has come to light, instead of taking personal responsibility himself. To suggest that he had no knowledge of Rick’s activities – after four marriages – is absurd. I agree with onion that those who allowed Rick to continue in this type of behavior, are also responsible. I would suspect Rick had dirt on TLWF leadership or they would have never allowed him to continue in ministry. In most church organizations, fallen leaders seldom recover after one indiscretion, much less four - plus those affairs that have been alluded to, but not made public. TLWF is finally getting to be like the Catholic hierarchy they so admire after all - and experiencing the same problems.

Now the battle over money begins – as in a divorce - and I suspect the true colors of those involved will come to light – unless all this was worked out prior to publicly banishing Rick. I would also be curious to know if there is a legal clause or strategy that would cause Rick to lose everything for moral indiscretions – a great card for Gary to play at this time. What would be really nice is if the local churches, whose finances and labor built the facilities, could gain local ownership of them - as would be the case in a nondenominational structure. There are oversight bodies that provide protection for congregants in nondenominational churches - my church belongs to one. The other side of the coin will become apparent when a few with unethical motives can legally take the money and run without any oversight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2019 01:18AM by changedagain.

Larry wrote:
"I would suspect Rick had dirt on TLWF leadership or they would have never allowed him to continue in ministry. In most church organizations, fallen leaders seldom recover after one indiscretion, much less four - plus those affairs that have been alluded to, but not made public."

The public image is of paramount importance. I would imagine that G and company would want every claim settled privately, without any admission of wrongdoing. If they can push the narrative that other ministries, without their knowledge, were more culpable of these 'alleged' offenses, that would work in their favor as well.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Our Survival Is Based On Obedience"
> June 29, 2018 - by Gary Hargrave
>
> "This Word shows us that as we move out of a place
> of relative safety in our walk with God and into
> harm’s way, our obedience to the Father will
> determine life or death. We will face lies about
> the Word of God and against the Father Himself
> which will attempt to deceive us into being
> disobedient and losing God’s protection."
>
> It just seems as though God the Father is unduly
> hypersensitive to being disrespected. My
> encouragement to him is to cease being so obsessed
> about a very small group of people on this planet
> serving him 24/7 and propping up his frail ego.
> You would think as God, he would be familiar with
> the far reaches of the universe, and could choose
> a more healthy way of spending eternity than
> incessantly berating people on this planet for not
> fulfilling his every perceived need. A pleasant
> hobby perhaps...you know, one that hopefully
> doesn't involve killing/torturing etc.
>
> Respectfully,
> a concerned human being


Excellent letter to God. Can you add my signature please?

Cloudwatcher wrote:
<Excellent letter to God. Can you add my signature please?
Yes, of course

It just seems as though God the Father is unduly
hypersensitive to being disrespected. My
encouragement to him is to cease being so obsessed
about a very small group of people on this planet
serving him 24/7 and propping up his frail ego.
You would think as God, he would be familiar with
the far reaches of the universe, and could choose
a more healthy way of spending eternity than
incessantly berating people on this planet for not
fulfilling his every perceived need. A pleasant
hobby perhaps...you know, one that hopefully
doesn't involve killing/torturing etc.

Respectfully,
1. A concerned human being
2. Cloudwatcher

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No knowledge of Rick's activities through the
> years?
>
> Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John
> Robert Stevens
> Posted by: larry bobo
> Date: October 22, 2018 06:38AM
>
> It has been Gary’s MO to direct the activities of
> TLWF and then remove middle management to take the
> fall when obviously wrong behavior has come to
> light, instead of taking personal responsibility
> himself. To suggest that he had no knowledge of
> Rick’s activities – after four marriages – is
> absurd. I agree with onion that those who allowed
> Rick to continue in this type of behavior, are
> also responsible. I would suspect Rick had dirt on
> TLWF leadership or they would have never allowed
> him to continue in ministry. In most church
> organizations, fallen leaders seldom recover after
> one indiscretion, much less four - plus those
> affairs that have been alluded to, but not made
> public. TLWF is finally getting to be like the
> Catholic hierarchy they so admire after all - and
> experiencing the same problems.
>
> Now the battle over money begins – as in a divorce
> - and I suspect the true colors of those involved
> will come to light – unless all this was worked
> out prior to publicly banishing Rick. I would also
> be curious to know if there is a legal clause or
> strategy that would cause Rick to lose everything
> for moral indiscretions – a great card for Gary to
> play at this time. What would be really nice is if
> the local churches, whose finances and labor built
> the facilities, could gain local ownership of them
> - as would be the case in a nondenominational
> structure. There are oversight bodies that provide
> protection for congregants in nondenominational
> churches - my church belongs to one. The other
> side of the coin will become apparent when a few
> with unethical motives can legally take the money
> and run without any oversight.

I was thinking back to when Martha claimed JRS was worth $40 mill in their divorce.

Could it be she thought the Stevens owned the churches? If so, I wonder if the narcissist thinks his kingdom is the value of the churches. Crazy I know!

What Hargrave can not begin to realize that the people are NOT property to own- yes, there is property that the building are sitting on and have value - not his to take the money and run no matter how the corporate papers were shuffled. What made the church in the cult he commandeered were the loving people he tried to control- but failed.

Hargrave can not take our souls nor no longer control our minds.

It's the MO to have dirt on almost any one- or they manufactured dirt. so, I would guess Rick has some cards up his sleeve.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave when we practice first to deceive."
The people's stories are consistent- but, the leadership's story is not- leadership has failed to be transparent with financial transactions, again and again.