Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 26, 2019 05:16AM

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shiloh/Kalona News...
>
> [www.kalonanews.com]
>
> A few quotes on the proposed annexation from the
> article:
>
> “The city isn’t buying Shiloh,” Schlabaugh said.
> “Annexation does not mean ownership. We’re not
> looking to write checks.”
>
> "Current discussions between Shiloh and the city
> involve Shiloh requesting a voluntary annexation
> of its 200-acre property into the city of Kalona."
>
> "The current proposal would have the city taking
> ownership of the water and sewer system, as well
> as other already existing facilities on the
> property."
>
> "Other facilities included in the discussion are
> the main building, an amphitheater and
> recreational facilities."
>
> “This would give us an asset we would never build
> in a lifetime,” Schlabaugh said."
>
> "Shiloh would maintain ownership of undeveloped
> parts of the property with the idea to sell to
> developers."

Thanks Reep for the article link

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 26, 2019 05:23AM

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Question: Are there any other charitable
> organizations besides churches in which
> individuals who have donated thousands of dollars
> for years of their lives are not valued or their
> opinions taken into consideration because they
> stop donating? Asking for a friend...


My son is asking questions as to why he and his sisters are so directed and not included in these discussions. Steve knows my son;s last name and he can be googled. No effort was made on the part of Rich or Rogness.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 26, 2019 05:39AM

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cloudwatcher Wrote:
>
> And a word about GH. He never had John's
> charisma. I remember not wanting to transcribe
> his services, and I don't believe I ever did.
> Hargrave sounds like a drone. Soooo Boring. He
> does not hold a candle to JRS as far as that. If
> Marilyn hadn't been the one pulling the strings,
> he never would have been able to pull it off.

>
> Gary is an intimidating guy. People have learned
> not to mess with him, since he thrives in
> confrontational situations (or used to). He may
> not have charisma, but he always speaks with
> confidence and conviction--giving the appearance
> of being very knowledgeable in many subject areas.
> And he knows how to look through someone, a trait
> all effective cult leaders seem to have :)
> To this day people who have been severely harmed
> by the TLWF experience stay in the shadows, not
> revealing their abuses, for fear of retribution.
> And its understandable, given the possible
> consequences of speaking out. The downside can be
> significant--so I don't fault them for that.


My son and I listened to some of GH "messages" which he obviously is a master of aphorism. The message was boring so I have not taken the time to count some obvious repetitive words:
family: perfect: mature; obedience; suffering; sacrifice; pope: kingdom.

He is good at skirting around the coming his version of the Kingdom of God when in reality is of "Gary's Kingdom" that will require pain and suffering if you want to enter into G's kingdom. Not a sneaky and emotional tugging as JRS in my opinion - or is it so clear brain control to me because I'm not under his thumb trying so hard to be "perfect"? We are only human - will never be perfect.

G will give a scripture- but instead of reading all the way he states what he wants you to interpret as his "confirmation of truth" which if examined is contrary to what the Bible really says.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 26, 2019 05:49AM

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This just in: All TLWF ordinations were revoked as
> of March 2019.


WHAT?
So...does this mean the ordained of TLW can't take tax exempt donations anymore?

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 26, 2019 06:23AM

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More conditionings:
>
> All "free" time shall be spent doing volunteer
> labor; the more menial, the better. (If you happen
> to be a doctor or professor, expect to be placed
> on toilet cleaning detail.)
>
> If the volunteer labor involves a remodel of
> G&M's, JRS' or GH's home, do not expect
> remuneration, thankfulness or honorable mention
> when said home is later featured in a magazine
> showcasing luxury homes. Also, expect to make your
> own bathroom and eating arrangements for the
> duration of the remodel.
>
> Members' children who escape abortion orders and
> make it to childbirth shall be surrendered to "Mom
> and Dad" once potty training is complete. "Mom and
> Dad" will delegate the raising and training of the
> child to those “connected” individuals deemed
> suitable. This may include rehoming at a “Kingdom
> Facility”. Parents are financially responsible
> for their child.
>
> Children will be psychologically programmed and
> taught by church and “Kingdom School” authorities
> to believe that their parents are not connected
> enough to Mom and Dad. They will also be
> conditioned to look down upon their parents and
> accept the suggestions of more appropriate
> mentors.
>
> If a member has personal problems, illness or
> other needs, it is the work of "the cross". Other
> members are forbidden from showing common courtesy
> or compassion.
>
> If you are unfortunate enough to be "chosen" for
> physical, mental or sexual abuse by leaders or
> their offspring, no one will believe you. And even
> if you are believed, it is still your fault and is
> "being handled".


I want to barf when I hear about the heinous crimes that happened after I "escaped".

I will say it, again, that the original vision of Shiloh was to be a Christian facility. None of the above has Christian values. .. there fore all the donation fora Christian facility were illegally mis -used. ( Not a lawyer- just pissed at what happened to so many dear people)

We old timers were set up by JRS to think this was going to based on Biblical principals. yet, when I read the lists of expectations of the slaves- were was reading the Bible the hand book for Christianity on that List? it's not there - Shiloh was to be for Christian education.

The kingdom of jrs; The kingdom of Marilyn: the kingdom of "pope Gary" was NOT in the original vision that the donations were made to build the facility at Shiloh. Can any one pin-point the dates when donating to a "Christian organization" were being spent on occult activities and personal gain?

Briefly skimming IRS pdfs on charitable organizations and donations TLW reeks of tax evasion and fraud - we all were controlled by fear that we would not make it to heaven-the "kingdom"- our Christian salvation was useless unless we obeyed the master in charge at the time.

With all the structural registrations over the decades was there ever a change in declaration of the non-profit as not being Christian? The unreasonable expectations were not was Jesus would have done. Living in fear and condemnation is not what Jesus taught in the Bible, yet, we all lived in fear and never ever going to be able to please "god" dba as jrs, M or G..

I think this matters. What do you all think? When were we told we were not Christians in the walk? I'm trying to figure out where that line was crossed because I see it as a legal issues ( Not a lawyer- just questioning...I rebelled and I've outlived many any way.)

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 26, 2019 06:36AM

Onion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Speaking of insurance - I read the coverage of one
> of the main churches and there is $300k coverage
> for sexual misconduct. I wonder if they contacted
> their insurer to get coverage and the ins paid for
> the lawyer or the counseling at CLW or whatever.
>
> Leaping to a new subject -- QUESTION: Does anyone
> have any idea what happened to the Van Djik oil
> paintings? I proved they were church property in
> JRS' divorce in 1982 because the churches paid for
> them. I haven't heard a reference to them since.

Good question Onion. I saw that decades ago.
??
I had no idea that there was sexual abuse insurance? WOW! So, it's like someone expected it to happen but not recorded and transcribed as a prophetic word. I mean no disrespect to the many victims if i come across in a yucky way.

On that subject, my family really needs some answers to the abuse of children in Anaheim late '70's to early 80's.

I've heard rumors of children being "passed around." Please do not quote me on this- I don't know. What I do know is that when I was a day sleeper and my husband was no longer a kingdom employee he was supposed to watch our kids while I got a few hours of sleep. He'd take off leaving our son and go some place with our daughter when the kids weren't in kingdom school - my son was beaten there - I have found SD the principal who is teaching in a school district in CA still... But I have no idea what happened to my daughter when she was 5 or 6. At the time her drawings were disturbing and some of the things she said I never figured out. She has secrets from that time we need to unlock if anyone can help, please.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 26, 2019 06:56AM

Onion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A friend from Brazil sent me the report from their
> transition team. I don't know (yet) who was on
> the team but this report is encouraging. I wish we
> would get to see reports from the other churches
> because hopefully those reports as well as their
> MOUs would probably be encouraging too.
>
>
> Transition Group Public Letter, May 2019
> Translated from the original Portuguese
>
> We, the members of the transition group for Mount
> Zion wish to share our conclusions and suggestions
> related to the next steps for The Church of the
> Living Word, Niteroi. We would also like to share
> our suggestion of a basic timeline for the first
> year of functioning after the transition period.
>
> Our first conclusion is that we recognize that the
> spiritual structure of apostolic authority over
> the Church of the Living Word, Niteroi ended in
> October 2018 with a letter of resignation from the
> apostolic fathering ministry, Gary Hargrave, in
> which he declared the process of ending the
> centralized structure of the Churches of the
> Living Word (The Living Word Fellowship). The
> accusations of abuse of authority and/or
> molestation practiced by leaders of these churches
> involved scores of members during the recent
> decades. The absence of appropriate measures taken
> against those who practiced abuse led these
> churches to the collapse of their organizational
> structure and a grave crisis of confidence. It
> definitively ended the authority structure of
> these churches by the end of 2018. In March 2019,
> the ordinations of all the pastors established by
> the Living Word in the United States and in Brazil
> were terminated, ending any type of system of
> spiritual authority.
>
> Gary Hargrave recognized the existence of a
> culture that permitted such inappropriate behavior
> by the leaders and the need for detoxifying
> ourselves from an organized religious system and
> hierarchy when he stated “there are deep
> underlying flaws that have existed within the
> fellowship which permitted an environment where
> such things could occur without correction and
> discipline”, making it necessary to “lay the axe
> to the root”. He also stated, “Everything within
> this organization that is related to the
> structures and errors of the past must be washed
> away and cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.”
> This culture of abuse and totally hierarchical
> authority created the control of the members.
> Likewise in a veiled manner, it sought to create
> uniformity of thought and blind agreement with the
> “spiritual” leadership of these churches.
>
> We see this type of abuse of authority, unhappily
> and somewhat systematically in various religious
> organizations that move the religious world today.
> This distances people from the simplicity of
> Christ and transforms churches into businesses,
> using mechanisms of control and power over
> people’s lives. In time this model of hierarchical
> government produces leaders with twisted
> personalities who put the focus on themselves
> instead of bringing people to a relationship with
> Christ, the Great and only Shepherd. This
> controlling culture creates an environment of
> immaturity within the brethren, and has been
> pointed out as a great concern by many Christian
> researchers. The transition group demonstrated
> their repentance related to the promotion of this
> structure and this way of carrying out the
> shepherding of The Church of the Living Word,
> Niteroi in an open letter to the congregation
> dated 8/12/2018, and recommended the necessity of
> detoxifying [cleansing] from this culture and the
> ways of thinking related to it. In light of this,
> the end of any type of personal shepherding or
> direction in The Church of the Living Word,
> Niteroi was declared at that moment. Also, the
> total dissatisfaction with this type of
> shepherding was recently noted in the majority of
> the congregants. For this reason, it is important
> that we counsel and direct against permitting any
> type of centralized restructuring of spiritual
> authority over people of this congregation’s lives
> in the coming years. The practice of creating
> relationships known as “Spiritual Father-Son
> Relationship”, “Elijah/Elisha”, “Designated
> Relationships” or any other names which were used
> to describe this type of relationship during the
> last decades in these churches has been ended. Our
> relationship of submission one to another should
> be based in our relationship as brothers in
> Christ, and by submitting voluntarily to His
> Lordship in one another. In this environment, each
> individual will choose their level of submission
> and dedication based on their individual walk with
> God, freely and without judgment.
>
> We would also like to share some principles that
> we consider to be healthy for the next steps in
> the Mount Zion community as an organization:
>
> 1. We believe in the Biblical principle of
> confirmation in the public assembly of all members
> as was carried out by the Early Church in Acts 15.
> This is the essential foundation of any community
> or Christian Church looking for the leading of the
> Holy Spirit. We recommend that the next directors
> continue to apply this principle, being in
> submission to the many prophets in Mount Zion, and
> submitting their important decisions in the
> assembly.
>
> We know that this model isn’t a completely
> democratic process of voting on decisions. We
> should still seek out more confirmation for
> implementing this. However, this system operates
> according to the Biblical principle of “in the
> multitude of counselors there is wisdom”.
> (Proverbs 11:14) By this, with the involvement of
> the whole congregation in prayer, we believe that
> we will together find the voice and guidance of
> the Holy Spirit for the important organizational
> decisions that we will make. We also suggest that
> the directors practice submission to one another
> and be in submission to established advisors, so
> as to prevent independent action that is not
> confirmed from being carried out in everyday
> decision-making.
>
> 2. We suggest seeking absolute transparency in the
> actions of the next directors and/or advisors of
> this organization. The beginning of transparency
> should be placed above the preservation and
> defense of the leader’s or institution’s image. It
> is imperative to avoid the creation of hidden
> agendas, behind the scenes conversations and/or
> the manipulation of information. In addition, we
> believe that transparency and inclusiveness as
> well as implementing the practice of accepting
> suggestions will lead to clarity of the
> information that any director or advisor gives to
> the community members regarding decisions of the
> board.
>
> 3. The main focus of this organization should be
> its members (the community) and not the pastor, or
> a group of pastors or leaders. If there are
> administrators or organizers within this
> institution, they should be only faithful stewards
> (deacons according to the Biblical pattern) to
> manage and care that which the Lord would give us
> and to lead in specific areas. (Matthew 20:26)
> This should be done without obligation and with
> respect of the free will of families and
> individuals. “Position” should not exist, but
> instead, action. The authority for operating in
> certain areas should be recognized and not
> imposed.
>
> 4. We suggest the creation of mechanisms for
> controlling the abuse of natural or spiritual
> power or authority. This could take the form of an
> independent system for receiving accusations and
> confirming actions. Processes for assessments
> could also be implemented as well as the
> application of good principles of governance. It
> is also important that we seek an atmosphere of
> honest relationships with the absence of human
> control over one another, so that the people will
> be whole.
>
> 5. Because of the strong hierarchical structure in
> which this community has lived, we suggest that
> the organization operate without an official
> structure of ministries for the foreseeable
> future. Because of the process of decontamination
> we are experiencing, we suggest that even the
> structure of collegial authority (which is
> preferred by researchers) not be established
> during these beginning stages until the Lord shows
> us the next steps more clearly. That being said,
> it also remains clear (according to researchers)
> that we should not have paid pastors or directors
> or even a principle pastor in the church which
> will definitely simplify our administrative and
> organizational processes. This will avoid the
> abuse of authority or looking for a position,
> since recognition sows division and strife among
> the brethren which is contrary to the teachings of
> Christ.
>
> 6. We also suggest that we seek an atmosphere of
> free will in our collective functioning. The
> voluntary services and actions carried out by
> members of the community should be considered as
> an act of worship to the Lord. The central focus
> of this community is the fact that each one have a
> personal relationship with God through their
> faith in Christ and not though the imposition of a
> framework of religious organization. In the same
> way, this organization will not be obliged to
> assume the burden of promoting or supervising any
> programs (for children, young people, parties,
> etc.) in a centralized format, but will seek to
> support the collective activities of the
> community.
>
> 7. Another factor that seems to be of general
> consensus is the central focus of the
> relationships amongst the brethren; taking care
> that they should be more important than the
> carrying out of a given institution’s projects.
> There are basic and biblical morals for
> relationships; however these should not be based
> on the customs of the current religious world.
> Since the family is essential to providing the
> next generation's relationship with God, we
> suggest that the families should be empowered and
> encouraged in the raising of their own children.
>
> 8. With regard to natural and legal items, we know
> that we should continue to do everything according
> to the law, with the goal of protecting our
> birthright; the land that we own. This will insure
> that they will be utilized for the good of this
> community to which we contributed for decades for
> the purpose of creating a framework for fellowship
> and relationship in the will of God. This
> organization’s financial support is used to look
> after the common property, and in turn gives each
> one freedom in their personal finances to express
> their faith and dedication to God. This freedom
> includes contributing their tithes and offerings,
> as well as developing other sources of income
> through the ingenuity and collaboration of the
> brethren. As administrators, we should commit
> ourselves to be faithful stewards to invest the
> money given at the altar of the Lord on behalf of
> the common good of the members of Mount Zion. Also
> in regard to legal aspects, we suggest that even
> the term “church” be discussed and revisited by
> the congregation during the next year so that the
> mission and bylaws of this community can be
> adjusted. It appears that the legal definition of
> a “Christian association” could be studied as one
> of the possibilities for better legal compliance
> to the concept of a Christian community with a
> common goal.
>
> From now through the next year, we suggest that
> church activities be simplified to a basic format
> agreed upon by the brethren. From the suggestions
> which have been received, we will post the
> suggestions that seem to have the most agreement
> below:
>
> • On Sundays we could continue having simple
> services with worship and communion, and possibly
> eventually add plain and simple Biblical
> teachings.
> • We understand that this next year will still be
> a time of healing for each individual and family.
> • For this reason, we recommend avoiding
> exhortations and theological preaching with
> doctrinal biases in our services.
> • Preparation for times of worship or teaching
> (biblical studies) will be implemented in
> submission one to another, carried out with the
> formation of groups or specific commissions to
> supervise these activities.
> • On Saturdays we propose a more flexible, free
> schedule, to support the groups working on
> projects and to devote ourselves to relating to
> one another.
> • For more important decisions, we suggest that
> the first board maintain public meetings scheduled
> every 30 to 60 days, where we may share and
> include the whole congregation in the important
> decisions and accountability.
>
> We would also like to give everyone the latest
> clarifications regarding Silas and Shuma Esteves’
> ministry as pastors of The Church of the Living
> Word, Niteroi. We would like to make clear that
> their contract for pastoral services in the church
> has completely ended. The remaining promised
> payments to Silas for his sabbatical period have
> been made, a period during which it was agreed
> that they would be completely removed from the
> ministerial activities of the church.
>
> One of the two reasons for this removal was the
> necessity of caring for his [Silas’] health. He
> has now completely recovered from his illness.
> However, the sabbatical period also coincided with
> the events surrounding the closing down of the
> churches of the Living Word, (The Living Word
> Fellowship, TLWF). Due to the complaints raised
> in the suggestion box and the evaluations carried
> out in The Church of the Living Word, Niteroi,
> they [Silas and Shuma] would no longer be in
> authority or acting as ministries in this church,
> or exercising influence over this transition
> period. The objective of this sabbatical period
> was to open the door that other brethren in the
> local body would carry out a change in direction
> toward a different form of governance, breaking
> the strong hierarchical leadership framework in
> Mount Zion.
>
> For all these reasons and for the clarity which
> this transition period brought us regarding the
> next steps, we, the transition group (including
> the current board) would like to announce the
> final disconnection of Silas and Shuma Esteves in
> regards to ministry and/or a position of
> leadership in the Church of the Living Word,
> Niteroi. There is no expectation of return or
> ministerial functioning or leadership after the
> close of the sabbatical period. They have acted as
> apostolic ministries of TLWF and principle leaders
> of the Church of the Living Word, Niteroi in
> recent decades, and as leaders and promoters of
> this hierarchical system of governance which has
> been terminated. For these reasons, our suggestion
> is that during the next few years, they not be
> involved or attempt to influence the next steps
> and decisions of Mount Zion. This will avoid the
> creation of division and contention among the
> brethren because of their influence as ex-leaders
> along with members of this community.
>
> We would like to close with this statement about
> the level of waste [wearing out] which took place
> during this period which was not healthy for our
> relationships. This final disconnecting of Silas
> and Shuma from any position or leadership is
> necessary so that everyone may have the liberty to
> seek the Lord and make their choices freely, not
> based on emotional bonds or the wounds of the
> past. This will also help us to preserve our
> relationship with them as brothers in Christ. Just
> as all other members of the Mount Zion community,
> they are welcome to participate in the collective
> relationships and activities as members of this
> community. We are not suggesting the substitution
> of certain ministries for others. The suggestion
> is that the natural and spiritual covering of our
> communal activities should be simplified and only
> happen through our collective counsel, until we
> have clarity for the next steps in which the Lord
> will lead us.
>
> In closing, we realize from the last months of
> conversations, meetings and research that the
> majority of congregants of Mount Zion wish to
> return to the simplicity of a walk with God, to
> relate to one another, to live by Biblical
> principles and have worship as the center of our
> lives. This seems to be the confirmed leading by
> the Holy Spirit in our midst.
>
> We feel that with the ending of this transition
> period, and owing to the agenda which we are
> proposing, we should also end discussions about
> past leaders, past practices and formats which
> have been used in the services, and theological
> discussions which are no longer helpful. We feel
> that this is the time to put aside our differences
> and arguments, with the goal of moving forward
> together, however basic and simple this time may
> be. We believe that Jesus Christ will show us the
> next steps in His time.
>
> Finally, we suggest that the next board members
> remain in a state of reflection. This will enable
> them to continue to leave behind old paradigms
> which were associated with the hierarchical
> religious system in which we have lived. Let us
> return to the simplicity of the Biblical teachings
> and all that it means to be a community of
> Christians. Let this time period that we start
> today begin something new that is born out of
> God’s heart. Let it not be a process of
> reconstruction of another man-made religious
> framework. We pray that the simplicity of this
> timeline during the next year will lead us into a
> new covenant, when “all shall know Him” (Jeremiah
> 31:31-34) without obligation, without human
> pressure, without religious structure. Let us have
> an atmosphere of peace and joy in which we live
> together with those who want to worship God and
> grow in His knowledge.
>
> Mount Zion Transition Group

Thanks Onion for sharing. M-m-m? Interesting how the word Christian is interjected since tlw strayed so far.

After I left the walk I was not afraid to go visit other churches for safe Christian fellowship. As a child in knew the Bible, so, when I decided to join a neighborhood mainstream church I had to take classes on beliefs of that particular Christian denomination.

I always behooved me to understand why the influx of Shiloh residents or kingdom business employees - well, just showed up- but there were expectations of an introduction to what we as Christian believed? Or am I wrong?

So with this transition plan for that Mount Zion community will there be any expectations that clearly define that standards of believes as mainstream denominations expect for membership? ( I don't expect you to have the answer. But, the thing is, the rules of church/ cult were always changing like "god" couldn't make up 'her' mind.)

I guess the plan sounds good, but, will they have background checks and references for church leaders? ( I feel a twinge of guilt for asking since I'm not involved there...oops- my fleeting guilt feeling is gone.) Words on paper mean squat.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 26, 2019 07:06AM

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
puddington
> ...and it sounds like Gary is trying to take
> credit for shutting down the LW. “Laying an axe to
> the root”. What a crock! The Hindenburg is burning
> and Shalom lit the match, not Gary.
>
>
> Thank you for pointing this out, puddington.
> Shalom publicly posted her report and letters on
> Facebook on 10-25-18. Gary Hargrave's apology
> letter was posted at
> [www.thelivingword.org] on
> 11-1-18. This was also his resignation letter. The
> Brazil report contained quotes from this apology
> letter, including the one you mentioned. That
> letter was obviously in response to Shalom's brave
> and historic post. Let's give credit where credit
> is due. I suppose that the transition team still
> deemed it more acceptable to quote Gary than
> Shalom.


Worth repeating.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 26, 2019 07:08AM

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> puddington Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > ...and it sounds like Gary is trying to take
> > credit for shutting down the LW. “Laying an
> axe
> > to the root”. What a crock! The Hindenburg
> is
> > burning and Shalom lit the match, not Gary.
>
> The enabling leadership is the root of the
> problem. They allowed the religious hierarchy to
> exist (don't ever question 'Christ in the Flesh')
> which has provided protection for the
> perpetrators...and apparently still does. If
> these same people still have influence over former
> members of TLWF, which appears to be the case,
> nothing of significance has changed. I'm certain
> that the goal of former leaders (Gary, Bruce/David
> etc.) is to control the assets by controlling the
> people and escaping legal accountability.
> Any suggestion that they should be credited for
> dealing with the wrongdoing that went on for years
> is ludicrous.

I agree

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 26, 2019 07:21AM

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reepicheep mentioned boundaries a few weeks back,
> and I think healthy boundaries is something that
> has to be re-learned post TLWF. Allowing a human
> to take the place of God is so destructive to the
> most sacred part of our lives. The deception of
> false “words from God” is that they bypass the
> normal filter of human communication and destroy
> us from the inside out. When you really open up,
> you are defenseless. Even a spouse doesn’t
> typically enter the most private parts of our
> hearts – it’s too risky to share with another
> human, and I would suggest, meant for God alone.
> Many, myself included, put far more weight on what
> the leadership of TLWF had to say than our own
> spouses. In hindsight, that should have been a
> red flag. Loving Marilyn more than my wife was
> simply adultery – she never was God. There should
> have never been a closer human relationship than
> my spouse.
>
> A couple of books that have been very helpful to
> me in re-learning boundaries are “Boundaries” and
> “The One-Life Solution” by Dr. Henry Cloud, a New
> York Times Bestselling author. Perhaps the
> quickest way to recover from unhealthy
> relationships is to establish healthy ones –
> starting with our self. We tend to attract others
> just like us. It’s helpful to be armed with some
> insight so you can actually identify healthy (and
> unhealthy) people. There are many wonderful
> people in the world that will give you hope that
> life really can be better than what you have known
> in the past. Leaving TLWF was like coming out of
> the darkness into the light for me. There is no
> question life improves in every area when you
> escape that which wants to kill, steal, and
> destroy.
>
> Organized religion by itself is just a system that
> has been created to meet the requirements of the
> law. It’s the people in the system that determine
> if it is destructive or life giving. The system
> itself is not something God came up with, but man
> – and therefore every system has its flaws. I’ve
> discovered good and bad people in every church I
> have attended – including TLWF. The commonality
> of the good people is that they have a personal
> relationship with God that produces the fruit of
> the Spirit. It doesn’t come from the system. I
> have a close personal friend that is a Catholic
> priest. I can find many doctrinal errors in the
> Catholic Church, and yet from within this church
> structure has come a man that genuinely loves God
> and others – the thing that God says is the most
> important.
>
> I see TLWF as a corrupt structure with corrupt
> leadership, and yet there are many that have come
> out of it that deeply love God and others. After
> twenty years removed, I tend to view it as a
> deceptive web that was meant to take good people
> out of circulation. Even if they manage to escape
> physically, there still is a poison that remains
> to keep them out of circulation and functioning as
> a member of the Body of Christ. Learning to flip
> the hierarchical structure over and relate to the
> ‘least of these” is so foreign to TLWF culture –
> and too much of what calls itself Christianity for
> that matter. Pure religion takes care of the
> widows and orphans, not those that want to take
> the place of God in the lives of others. A quick
> check of the leadership will reveal whether there
> is an upward flow or a flow to the most
> marginalized of society. The gospel has always
> been good news for the poor and hated by religious
> leaders looking for personal gain.

Excellent points larry lobo. thanks for sharing.

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