(Mankind has always displayed the affinity to be sold a bill of goods.)

Cloudwatcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think people have been nervous
> about actually doing anything about the crap that
> has gone on--understandably because it can be a
> mindfuck--coming out from under the bubble.
>
> I welcome all newcomers and hope you find some
> peace in knowing you are not alone--we weren't
> just a bunch of idiots--we were ripped of from our
> autonomy as human beings--it has to stop. And it
> looks like the onion is being peeled back at a
> more rapid pace and people are finding courage and
> inner strength. Sometimes I really feel alone and
> I have double-takes on real life going on around
> me. It is not as I thought. But I am free more and
> more each day.

Yes--being freed from the Church of the Living Mindf*ck is not an easy process, but well worth the effort. At least you'll be living a real life, not trapped in a sick delusion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2018 11:24PM by changedagain.

I wish Rob was here to spill the beans on Rick. He was manipulated and used by R to cover up the affair with MH. Used then tossed aside like a dirty condom when no longer needed. I'm glad he got out and found peace outside the church

rrmoderator – I was wondering if you could shed some light on the manipulation that also takes place to keep people from leaving a destructive cult. I think most of us who have left TLWF felt that we would be harmed for our decision. God would judge us, and therefore not only this life, but also our eternity was at stake. For me, it was such a strong fear that I was surprised when I woke up each day - and it lasted for several months after leaving. I fully expected to die – I just never did.

As a bit of background, we as a group had been violently praying for the death of John Stevens’ wife, Martha. His assistant, Marilyn, whom he later married, seemed to have a lot of input in the group taking this direction. Obviously, there should have been a red flag for all of this if we had valued the scriptures above John’s teaching. In spite of all of our “prophetic judgment”, nothing happened to Martha. In fact, John died before she did. My point is that there was absolutely no power to bring about judgment in another’s life, and yet we were still fearful of being judged ourselves.

The strong feeling of impending doom certainly was not rooted in reality. I suspect it had more to do with the same brainwashing we experienced in joining the group. I think it would be valuable to those following this thread, especially those still in TLWF, to understand that their fears, although real, are not grounded in the truth. Life does go on, and actually improves, as you escape these destructive influences.

Hi Mary,

I remember you well. I think it's brave to come forward. I still have trust issues.

I also worked in the legal field since the early 80's. Worked for a time -- or I should say volunteered for a time and the law offices of Robert F. and Lisa R. Jeanne A. was one of the people I was closest to.

In reading the posts about abuse, what I witnessed was more the total inappropriateness of men in power and their relationships with 18-20 year old girls. I remember being in a PM session where there were probably 6 pastors and one of them joked about "the laying on of hands" in relationship to someone's sexual encounter. Got a big laugh. Most of my time was spent in Shiloh. I arrived there before the sides of the building were up and the roof was on, and then moved in when it was barely livable. During those first few years I had a lot of contact with the Washington, IA church. There were deacons and elders there that us girls would warn each other about, "Don't take a ride back to Shiloh with so-and-so." Still makes my skin crawl.

Speaking of abuse, I wonder how much domestic violence went on. Since secrets were so well kept, it may be hard to know. I was/am still close to someone who was in a 20-plus year marriage to the son of a pastor. The physical, mental, and emotional violence happened almost immediately after marriage, not only to her, but then to her children. People in the church she attended suspected what was going on and no one said or did a thing. He actually asked her to leave. I spent many a late night with her on the phone, and even after what she'd been
through, she wanted him back. It's been a good few years now, but I seriously doubt that she's recovered from it. She's still in the church.

Which is exactly what I did! It felt great!

RRMODERATOR:

First, I want to say thank you for all you have done over the years to help the hundreds and hundreds of people that have had the courage to walk away from all this. Your list, comments, and knowledge of all of it is very appreciated. I have been reading this forum (daily) for several years, and am new to posting (first post was just a few days ago). With that noted, I want to be careful what I say.

I'm not really understanding why some of the recent posts made by KBOY have caught your eye. I am very familiar with this poster since I am in a group with him and many others that have left (many of whom have read the forum, but have yet to post). For the most part, all of us have read the list of how to identify if you are in a cult (which is awesome, by the way).

IMO, I believe that KBOY is not downplaying the deceit and manipulation of the leaders at TLW, but is offering words to allow people to also understand that ANYONE can be drawn into something that seems innocent, and not realize it until it is too late. If anything, for me, his post are carried through this thread as a calming voice, reminding us that we are only human. We are all victims, and in no way do I see the posts as coming across in a way that says it is our fault we stupidly stumbled into it. What I see, are words of compassion that help us see we are the strong ones, and this can happen to anyone - young, old, educated, or not. I think it is important for those readers, still in this so-called fellowship, to see that all of us thought we were doing the right thing, but we have able to somehow see the truth and get out.

I just recently told my own father that the "church" I thought I was in was/is actually a cult. He was furious with me for being so stupid, and has had a very hard time dealing with it. He constantly asks me how I could have stayed in it for so long knowing it was a cult. At this point in my life, by my own experience and confirmed by your list, I know, 100%, that it is a cult. And it is very important for me to hear KBOY's words, reminding me that I was not stupid or blind, but only human, responding, more than forty years ago, at the age of 17, to a church that seemed to say all the right things. (Little did I know that it was only bait.)

This thread is titled Former Cult Members and Affected Families. I believe that it finds its effectiveness in balance since we are all coming from different aspects of healing. Yes, I believe I did stumble into this church. Would I blame myself for going? I can't say. What I can say is that it was a tumultuous time (early 70's) of searching. What I do know now is that we were lied to, manipulated, emotionally blackmailed, grossly taken advantage of in more ways than ever thought possible, etc., etc. I have friends that wonder why so-and-so is still in the church. I am always the first to remind everyone that it is a cult, and because of the mind control (yes, I said mind-control, no matter how it is packaged), it is not always that easy to walk away.

All this to say that, for me, it is very important to read KBOY's posts, as they are, not putting blame on anyone, but trying and helping to walk us all back to normalcy without the GUILT. Each poster provides a distinct viewpoint that allows us to see a bigger picture of life outside "The Walk".

And it is beautiful out here!

I'm concerned by the posters who (unwittingly perhaps) make assertions that support key defenses of TLWF. One of them being that all of us who claim we were abused in the fellowship, made a choice from our own free will to be involved. In other words, there was no coercion. I think the phrase "an error in judgement" (something like that) has been used in referring to our initial decision to join the fellowship. That phrase, to me, connotes good faith with both parties involved (the individual joining and TLWF). The facts of what it will likely mean to your life are apparent from the outset, at least not intentionally hidden from view. I think it is the moderator's contention, and I share it, that phrasing things this way misses a much larger truth that there was a helluva lot of manipulation and deceit involved in coaxing us into the fellowship. I liken it making a big purchase--whether it's a home, a car, a major loan etc--laws are in place, rightfully so, to protect the consumer from being defrauded by unscrupulous, sophisticated con-artists. I put John, Marilyn, and Gary in that category. The field of religion is inundated with them, and these practitioners count on the separation of church and state to protect them from being held accountable by the law. The burden of guilt should rest on the perpetrator, not the victim. Of course, if the victim, once he/she manages to leave the cult, should have the wherewithal at that point not to be drawn into another exploitative organization.


p.s. we're obviously in a very crucial, sensitive time. And if many of those who have been sexually abused by RH decide not to come forward, it could be that they feel they had allowed the abuse to occur. In other words, they put themselves in a vulnerable place (being alone with him, receiving flattery etc.), and are in part to blame for what happened. Pretty soon, psychologically, they are carrying the burden of guilt, while the sociopath, lacking a conscience, feels free to continue his predatory ways.

that little red flag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not really understanding why some of the
> recent posts made by KBOY have caught your eye. I
> am very familiar with this poster since I am in a
> group with him and many others that have left
> (many of whom have read the forum, but have yet to
> post). For the most part, all of us have read the
> list of how to identify if you are in a cult
> (which is awesome, by the way).
>
> IMO, I believe that KBOY is not downplaying the
> deceit and manipulation of the leaders at TLW, but
> is offering words to allow people to also
> understand that ANYONE can be drawn into something
> that seems innocent, and not realize it until it
> is too late. If anything, for me, his post are
> carried through this thread as a calming voice,
> reminding us that we are only human. We are all
> victims, and in no way do I see the posts as
> coming across in a way that says it is our fault
> we stupidly stumbled into it. What I see, are
> words of compassion that help us see we are the
> strong ones, and this can happen to anyone -
> young, old, educated, or not. I think it is
> important for those readers, still in this
> so-called fellowship, to see that all of us
> thought we were doing the right thing, but we have
> able to somehow see the truth and get out.

Kboy is intelligent and compassionate. I don't dispute that.

For the record, I put in 35 of the best years of my life into TLW; blood, sweat and a whole lotta $$$. Having been out for almost a decade, I have never once blamed myself for the decision, nor should anyone else. Having approached the Kool-Aid stand on a hot thirsty day, I decided to buy, drink and reorder.

This does not take away from any culpability regarding the seller. Bait & switch has long been implemented over the millennia.

Surely we have not forgotten about Eve, the apple and the serpent . . . the bedtime story that started it all.