GSchaeff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GoingRogue, was that an exchange from camp that
> you just quoted?
>
> Sidenote: The sender I quoted has said the boy in
> their story may not have been from DC. I find it
> fascinating that this pattern is occurring this
> year as well. Looking at my old tape collection,
> it could very well be a pattern.
>
> I wonder what the explanation would be for why God
> keeps 'imparting' the same words to Gary over and
> over throughout the years, and in basically the
> same sequence.

GSchaeff, the first paragraph in quotes was from camp. The rest was my take-away from reading the summary for Obedience: His Standard For Judgement.

[garyhargrave.com]

Yes, the repitition is astonishing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2018 08:49AM by GoingRogue.

First time poster, long time reader.

You know what we need? We need a website or something that helps people escape from the TLWF cult. Maybe some kind words and a message about what it is like to be free, and out from under the influence of the church. It bothers me that there is no real counter message to the TLWF talking points. I know when I was still inside it, I felt like it would be almost impossible to escape it. I bet there are a lot of people in the church who would be encouraged to leave if they heard a counter message.

How do people think this would go over? I am sure the church would dislike it greatly, but what about for people who are on the fence about it all and still in the cult?

I don't know how it works, but it would be great to have it show up when people type in "Living Word Fellowship" on Google. Try to have it be on the first page of Google?

What do people think about this idea?

'He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the Lord require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?'
Micah 6:8-9

I prefer this approach to Gary's obsession with obedience (to himself). We have enough people claiming to be the answer, and it's not helpful.

Welcome, Cultfree.
That's a great idea, I agree that many people would benefit from an abridged version of what we have here in the forum, especially if it was well documented.

I would only give one word of caution. I'm no lawyer, but creating a web page dedicated to TLWF could open you up to legal action, and if these forums are to be believed, that's something Gary has experience with. He's been involved in a number of civil suits over the years, and numerous posters have mentioned signing Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs). Furthermore, he gets his legal counsel from a non-profit lawyer who has successfully defended Scientology in the past.

We are protected here to a large extent. Rick Ross has gone to bat against big names like scientology and EST when they tried to shut him down and expose posters on here for being called a cult. I can't see you losing a lawsuit, even if you were to make a website, but it could be an annoyance you maybe weren't anticipating. I just recommend talking to someone who passed the bar so you know you're covered. Maybe there's a way to do it anonymously, that's why I like Reddit:

[www.reddit.com]

Other people have used WordPress this is a really well-researched page:
[johnrobertstevens.wordpress.com]

Just be aware that if you own a domain, the legal action is going to come to you to take it down.


GoingRogue, I completely agree with your assessment. Gary has downplayed the Bible as less important than his own 'living word,' or in other words, submission.

The truth about the nefarious ways of TLWF leadership through the years is surfacing, causing quite the reaction. Here's an excerpt from the latest 'living word' emanating from Shiloh. It's the same twisting of reality, but the warnings/threats to the people to stay obedient is as intense as ever. People attempting to get free from the clutches of the cult can be an ugly, dangerous process--as many of us here know:

"This Word shows us that as we move out of a place of relative safety in our walk with God and into harm’s way, our obedience to the Father will determine life or death. We will face lies about the Word of God and against the Father Himself which will attempt to deceive us into being disobedient and losing God’s protection."
"Our Survival Is Based On Obedience"
June 29, 2018 - by Gary Hargrave



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2018 10:03PM by changedagain.

changedagain wrote: “but the warnings/threats to the people to stay obedient is as intense as ever.”

-------------

The warnings and threats are what we hated the most. It drove my wife and I to search for a different God. We needed a whole new paradigm. Earthly peace became more important than being qualified for some futuristic heaven.

That is a little bit troubling. Telling people they should fear for their lives? Now might be a good time to avoid drinking from any special cups, especially if they're the cups Gary spoke about earlier this year.

I agree, FCSLC, it took me awhile to unpack the things I was conditioned to think of as 'spiritual warfare' or 'battle.' Sometimes after SOP I was so hyped up on the worship that I remember thinking my spirit was going to be assaulted by principalities and powers when I walked into Sam's Club. Found an old worship tape in my car and remembered how I used to think it created a force field that I was safe from transference inside of. SOP has always had some super hero lingo like that, but this year just seems especially dark.

FCSLC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> changedagain wrote: “but the warnings/threats to
> the people to stay obedient is as intense as
> ever.”

> The warnings and threats are what we hated the
> most. It drove my wife and I to search for a
> different God. We needed a whole new paradigm.
> Earthly peace became more important than being
> qualified for some futuristic heaven.

Yeah, the current 'living word' presents a heavenly father who has a perpetual bad attitude, never pleased and easily provoked by even the slightest transgressions of his people. The image an ornery, vindictive bully in the sky is something we can all do without. What a distortion!

p.s. always good to hear from you, FCSLC.

This bears repeating:

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

The group/leader is always right.

The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

[culteducation.com]

FCSLC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

>
> The warnings and threats are what we hated the
> most. It drove my wife and I to search for a
> different God. We needed a whole new paradigm.
> Earthly peace became more important than being
> qualified for some futuristic heaven.


People walk away from God and their faith all the time. Both in cults and in orthodox churches. Usually. According to research. The reason cited is. God didn't answer prayer. And how could God allow suffering. The cost being to great. If I really wanted a walk with God. I wouldn't let some low life cult leader rob me. Since this forum isn't about theology. So what if you don't read the Bible. Or found a new God. Or don't believe. Who even cares? Why even bring it up?