changedagain wrote:
____________________________________

> BTW, I recall Gary stating that John's death
> actually brought down Satan, which if people
> believe it, would make John even more revered (if
> that is possible).

I remember that too, changedagain. I think he reappeared, didn't he? Also, I distinctly remember sermons in which the members were blamed for "killing" JRS because we didn't pray hard enough. Talk about a guilt trip!

Actually, it seemed to me that in more recent years, the congregation got the brunt of the blame for things going wrong. And as has been brought up before, the instructions could change on a dime. I don't know how many times I went home from church feeling like a failure after the sermon (word). Somehow, it was never G&M's error for not being clear. It was that the people totally misconstrued what they had said. Good times!

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Corboy, by my estimates
>
> 1) What proportion of people in LW were also
> attending the back room meetings? Probably only
> 10%
>
> 2) Were these back room meetings generally known
> about, or secret? Only known to those invited
>
> 3) What did a member have to do before he or she
> was allowed or invited to attend these back room
> meetings> Worked at the LW building, Blix house or
> be an elder in good standing with Marilyn
>
> 4)Did back room participants have to keep any
> secrets? Absolutely

Now that's scary!

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't know how many times I went home from church
> feeling like a failure after the sermon (word).
> Somehow, it was never G&M's error for not being
> clear. It was that the people totally misconstrued
> what they had said. Good times!

Yes, the Word is always perfect. The blame for lack of fulfillment rests on the people. Good times!

I can personally attest that my parents, even though they left right before JRS died, held onto all the words spoken over them. They reiterated to me my whole life how I was blessed by the brothers and a word was spoken over me giving me special access to God. They are still carrying on the legacy he left behind. I am still feeling the impact of this destructive belief system nearly 40 years later.

Tknc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can personally attest that my parents, even
> though they left right before JRS died, held onto
> all the words spoken over them. They reiterated to
> me my whole life how I was blessed by the brothers
> and a word was spoken over me giving me special
> access to God. They are still carrying on the
> legacy he left behind. I am still feeling the
> impact of this destructive belief system nearly 40
> years later.

Wow--sorry to hear this.

No one has to answer any of these questions about the back room meetings Puddington mentions.

I came up with the questions just in case they help clarify what people remember and wish to describe.

Since those back room meetings were kept a secret, no one who was not in those meetings can have full knowledge about LW -- or have knowledge of
the entire cost of discipleship.

If new trolls arrive, one can ask if they attended back room meetings or knew that any such meetings took place.

LW Back Room Meetings - More Questions

1) About the backroom meetings:

A) Did the meetings happen on schedule? Or were they called suddenly, with no warning?

B) Did the meetings start and end at reasonable times, or did you run short on sleep?

C) During meetings were you treated courteously

D) During meetings could everyone share his or her ideas and concerns openly and with no worry about loss of standing

E) Was the physical setting convenient to get to, comfortable? Could you eat, take breaks, go the the bathroom when needed?

F) Did the meetings interfere with family, work, getting sleep?

G) Were records kept for what was proposed, decisions made, votes?

Puddington wrote that those invited to the secret backroom meetings "Worked at the LW building, Blix house or be an elder in good standing with Marilyn"

Q 2)What did you have to do to be

A)invited or allowed to work at the LW building

B) invited or allowed to work at Blix house

C become an elder in good standing with Marilyn?


Question 3: Could you decide you no longer wished to participate in the backroom meetings?

Question 4: Did anyone ever find ways (illness, family business, etc) to avoid attending backroom meetings?

Question 5:

A) Did you enjoy backroom meetings?

B) Were you ever afraid to go to backroom meetings?

C) Did you ever do or witness anything at backroom meetings you later regretted?

Quote

Puddington wrote:

Corboy, by my estimates

Q 1) What proportion of people in LW were also
attending the back room meetings?

A: Probably only 10%


Q 2) Were these back room meetings generally known
about, or secret?

A: Only known to those invited

Q: 3) What did a member have to do before he or she
was allowed or invited to attend these back room meetings


A: Worked at the LW building, Blix house or
be an elder in good standing with Marilyn

Q: 4)Did back room participants have to keep any
secrets?

A: Absolutely

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2018 10:39PM by corboy.

One aspect of the Living Word Churches which always made me feel weird was that as a church, they are always pushing toward something - breaking through. What does that even mean. It seems as though all the words brought are meant to "fix" us so that we can break through into something. Through the words brought by the senior pastors (gary, JRS, etc.), concepts are presented that have a sense of urgency. Like a few years ago, there were a few words brought about the blood moon and its significance and it tickled everyone's fancy for a few weeks to a month. And then the next thing comes in a word to interest people, and the cycle continues.

To me, this cycle has a few negative effects. One of the effects is when words come bringing some new concept of something we need to attain, we still haven't gotten the last thing that the pastor talked about. This always made me feel like I wasn't good enough, or couldn't grasp what they were bringing, and I felt like I could never catch up. Made me feel inadequate. I never knew JRS and my whole walk experience has been with G and M being the leaders. The new "revelations" that came were mostly just JRS messages repeated to us. I always thought it was funny how often we were told "This is the missing piece to breaking through!"

Lol. Yeah. I recall that era. Gary divorces his wife to marry Marilyn. Frankly, i never understood the appeal Gary Hargrave (or was 'grove). He struck me more as a man in gray flannel suit-type than spiritual. An organization guy who sought organizational power. A true authoritarian. Recall that he came out of Coniah in San Diego area. I never detected more than a modicum of "spirituality." Forget about any anointing or inspirational affect from his presence. He did not resonate. Prior i noticed he rarely gave the Word, even in San Diego. More the Iago guy, i speculate. But perhaps, unlike many of you here, i was very peripheral. Still, all that submission stuff, even bsck then, was honored more the breach. That much was easy to observe. For me the state-of-affairs that emerged via Marilyn was total eyebrow raising, if not scandalous. Granted, i had no take on JRS's first wife, the one that helped him develop. But it was about that time that LW lost credibility.

Reepicheep – Are you serious in implying that God has not limited Himself to speak in King James, as He did through John in the early days of The Walk? How can we lowly congregants possibly distinguish true words from God from the ramblings of men? At least it’s not in Latin! After all, if Jesus spoke in King James and we want to be like him, should we not do the same when we are feeling especially religious? :)

It’s a shame how the modernists have attempted to translate Jesus’ words so everyone can understand them, instead leaving them in confusing archaic poetry that only exalted spiritual leaders with special revelation can interpret - for a small nominal fee of course. What if the masses started reading for themselves what Jesus actually said and putting it into practice? We might end up with a little more of the Kingdom on earth – God forbid!

BTW, did King James have blond hair, blue eyes, and effeminate hands like many paintings of Jesus? I’ve heard rumors that a number of historians believe King James exhibited homosexual tendencies and was referred to as the “Queen of England” by his peers. After seeing paintings of him and his shoes, I think they may be right. :)

Sorry, my respect for those who pretend to be speaking for God has gone down a notch or two over the past couple of decades – even if they speak in old English. Critical thinking and the Internet are such terrible burdens to bear. Its so difficult to eliminate the security blankets of illusion that were so comforting! Although, I have to admit, I occasionally miss my spiritual leader telling me I’m special when I really haven’t done anything but serve them. At least those times are becoming less frequent. It also helps knowing that Jesus said to call no man teacher - "You have one Teacher and it is the Christ and you are all brothers".

TheycalledmeJonah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One aspect of the Living Word Churches which
> always made me feel weird was that as a church,
> they are always pushing toward something -
> breaking through. What does that even mean. It
> seems as though all the words brought are meant to
> "fix" us so that we can break through into
> something. Through the words brought by the senior
> pastors (gary, JRS, etc.), concepts are presented
> that have a sense of urgency. Like a few years
> ago, there were a few words brought about the
> blood moon and its significance and it tickled
> everyone's fancy for a few weeks to a month. And
> then the next thing comes in a word to interest
> people, and the cycle continues.
>
> To me, this cycle has a few negative effects. One
> of the effects is when words come bringing some
> new concept of something we need to attain, we
> still haven't gotten the last thing that the
> pastor talked about. This always made me feel like
> I wasn't good enough, or couldn't grasp what they
> were bringing, and I felt like I could never catch
> up. Made me feel inadequate. I never knew JRS and
> my whole walk experience has been with G and M
> being the leaders. The new "revelations" that came
> were mostly just JRS messages repeated to us. I
> always thought it was funny how often we were told
> "This is the missing piece to breaking through!"

Thank you, TheycalledmeJonah. I always thought that I was the only one who could never understand what the heck was so urgent all the time. Why were there always new levels and breakthroughs that seemed exactly like the old new levels and (non) breakthroughs? I only left the fellowship ten years ago, so I couln't even count the new levels and breakthroughs that were ALWAYS emergencies. It can really wear you out...kind of a perpetual state of hypervigilence and PTSD.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2018 02:36AM by Reepicheep.