Ohman? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Welcome Ohman? Feel free to express yourself.


> Wow. New to this but amazing. Yep I'm a "blow out"
> too. Bout '92 I left. Bet I know a bunch of you. I
> wish you all well. I'm curious bout P Rick
> Holbrook. When did he take his second child bride
> Lorena? He should be do for an upgrade soon?
> Anyone know when he married her?

Invisible Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Changed Again wrote,
>
> One of the few things I'm proud is my response to
> being put over the worship schedule in SG during
> the last couple of years of Bob M's life, and
> letting him do what ever the hell he wanted,
> including skipping the services. Of course, it was
> a private agreement we had, and hopefully it will
> never come to light.
> ----------------
>
> Changed Again,
>
> You must have been very close to Bob M. You have
> spoken of him often. It seems you were so very
> close to him, and identified with his suffering
> and affliction at the time you "allowed." him to
> skip services - he must have shared with you many
> of the things he experienced and went through
> because at times , he was very vocal privately,
> to several of the members. I have noticed you have
> chosen not to speak openly and clearly - about
> what he personally shared with you.
>
> You must have good reason for keeping some things
> confidential but it is difficult to know and
> understand sometimes what it is that you are
> really saying - when you convey and express your
> self thru sarcasm.
>
> I really believe that you sincerely cared for Bob
> M. and I can only but think by the things you have
> written, that there was nothing more you could do
> to have helped him but to have been his friend,
> who loved him the best way you could, during some
> very difficult years.
>
> I hope you will not be offended or angry with me
> for speaking so directly and personally to you in
> what I am writing to you in response to what you
> posted.

No, I'm not offended by what you write. You've experienced quite a bit of affliction due due to the overbearing/meddling nature of TLWF leadership--and you have every right to express your opinion, whether it coincides with mine or anyone else. Yes, I was close to Bob--and he did share with me his feelings on many matters that personally hurt him. Of course, he wasn't perfect (who is?), but the callous treatment he received from 'Christ in the earth' was completely undeserving.
p.s. Bob enjoyed my humor--sarcasm and all. It helped him deal with the harshness of what he was going through.

BTW, it was mostly benign in nature. He wanted to get out of all the church obligations placed on him, spend some time with his son...taking trips to the desert, if I recall. Sounded good to me...still does.


changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the few things I'm proud is my response to
> being put over the worship schedule in SG during
> the last couple years of Bob M's life, and letting
> him do whatever the hell he wanted, including
> skipping the services. Of course, it was a private
> agreement we had, and hopefully it will never come
> to light.

Welcome, Ohman?

Ohman? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. New to this but amazing. Yep I'm a "blow out"
> too. Bout '92 I left. Bet I know a bunch of you. I
> wish you all well. I'm curious bout P Rick
> Holbrook. When did he take his second child bride
> Lorena? He should be do for an upgrade soon?
> Anyone know when he married her?

I don't know much about what went into the breakup of his marriage, and never asked. I felt that would be crossing a line of friendship.
I knew he felt alienated from G & M, that they were expecting something different from him than what he was offering.
I know he was overwhelmed by the tax burden he faced, which I believe was over $130,000 dollars close to the time he passed.
JJ and Jimmy obviously both loved him, and the love was reciprocal.
We enjoyed each other's company. The church, and its ever changing doctrines, were weighty enough without us be too serious with each other. We found things to laugh about which helped mitigate the constant flow of oppression emanating from G & Lamp & company.


Invisible Wrote:

> You must have good reason for keeping some things
> confidential but it is difficult to know and
> understand sometimes what it is that you are
> really saying - when you convey and express your
> self thru sarcasm.
>
> I really believe that you sincerely cared for Bob
> M. and I can only but think by the things you have
> written, that there was nothing more you could do
> to have helped him but to have been his friend,
> who loved him the best way you could, during some
> very difficult years.
>
> I hope you will not be offended or angry with me
> for speaking so directly and personally to you in
> what I am writing to you in response to what you
> posted.

changedagain Wrote:
> p.s. Bob enjoyed my humor--sarcasm and all. It
> helped him deal with the harshness of what he was
> going through.


CA Bob was fortunate to have had you as a friend. I may be going out on a limb here and this is not a criticism but I am pretty sure Bob could enjoy your humor--sarcasm and all, as you said, because he could see your facial expressions and hear the tone in your voice. These are the ingredients usually needed to detect sarcasm. When posting online those ingredients are missing and it is much harder to detect sarcasm. I don't think anyone would deny that you are funny as are many other posters on the forum. The exception can be that when someone is in a certain kind of suffering or pain, sometimes any expression of humor, be it teasing or sarcasm, is a turn-off. And it may be that some have never felt that kind of pain and humor is never a turn-off. I recall posting some sarcasm early on when I joined the forum and you didn't get it and you let me know. And for that I say, thank yewwwww. It made me a better person (wink-wink).

Thank you for the warm welcome. I'm going to continue reading. But really, anyone know when P rick left Maria and went to Lorena? What's the age gap between Rick and Lorena? It was after Rick got caught cheating on Shannon with Maria that I left. Was wondering if it was the same kinda deal with Lorena.

"The exception can be that when someone is in a certain kind of suffering or pain, sometimes any expression of humor, be it teasing or sarcasm, is a turn-off."
I hear you.

Lilly Rose,

I wasn't talking about Bob M. when I spoke of the ministry having a heart of stone - I was referring to the mindset that was held by the leadership who had taken over the lives of the members - back in those many years ago.

You are right, It is so easy to misunderstand what some one else is saying - with out talking in person - face to face. Good comment about not being able to see a person's expressions and the tones and sounds in their voice when writing or texting.
-------------

Changed Again,

Thank you for your response and for what you shared . A good exchange and most appreciated.
----------------

Puddington,

Thank you for confirming the 1988 - commitment the congregation was led to make both to M and the ministry - Your right - it was a commitment to completely give up our life to the leadership ( to the ministry.)

Probably most of the people who went to the services in the late 1980's have forgotten how they came about believing that they should give up their free wills to allow the ministry to take their lives.

Later, when I found in the Scriptures that Jesus said - ( No man takes My life. I lay it down and I take it up. This Commandment I received from My Father. ) --- I later - knew for myself that - the guilt I felt (as if I was forsaking the Lord ) by not entering into the relationship that the leadership of the church was leading the members to believe was a deeper way to be purely devoted to serve and worship God.

I later came to realize - for any man to use God's love for us, or to use our love for God, to get us to give up our life - so they could take our life from us - was not of God.

By this Commandment that the Father gave to Jesus - I believe He was able to live his life as a free man in His relationship with other men. God freed Jesus from the religious ideas that hindered a man from being able to freely relate to God Himself and to personally worship God both as His own God and Father.

Finding this in the Scriptures - was how I was able to continue on by faith - after I stopped participating in the church as a member of TLW church.

FCSLC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tmason:
>
> “The Kingdom Mine was in fact located in the
> desert NE of Las Vegas in the Meadow Valley Wash.
> Between Carp and Elgin along the west side of the
> Union Pacific line you can still see evidence of
> the settlement.”
>
> ---------------
>
> There are many miles between Carp & Elgin along
> the Meadow Valley Wash. I Googled (satellite) the
> area specifically checking out the west side of
> the Union Pacific line. I don’t think I’ve
> found it yet or what I do see (shacks, vehicles,
> trailers, railroad stuff) may not be it. Is it
> closer to Carp, midway between Carp & Elgin or is
> there some specific way to nail it down? One of
> my favorite past times is Google Satellite.
>
> Thanks, FCSLC.

I will drop some lines on the map to outline the location. I will have to see if there is a way to share that map on the blog. Not sure how to do that.