Updated stats:

Comments: 12,510

Page views: 3,602,009


Thank you to all who have contributed to this discussion through the years--

including, but not limited to:

UnapologeticallyJohn832, Reepicheep, puddington, kBOY, that little red flag,

reveal, sierradawn, larrybobo, GSchaeff, Onion, Filthy Apron, PowerTrip,

Saw enough, FCSLC, 4generation, TheSarge, Lilith, Jez the Belle, paleface,

The Jewel, Imapurple, Invisible, typer, Cloudwatcher, Richard M.,

fromsouthchicago, ApostleDog, TheycalledmeJonah, dbc, NancyB,

Tmason, kbyrne, Northerngate, Blowout, cultfree, Road to Damascus,

Twoteetwo, fool me twice, Chachakitty, Jan w lane, CARe, lone.wolf,

FactoverFiction, JesusJesusJesus, pressingonbyHisgrace, Some One,

jhorning, Poliscigrad, NavyVet79, Walked, dirtybrushes, 40yearsin2016,

Prettyboy, FireWalker, light777, I_woke_up, corboy, Liamthomasusa, Ohman?,

Lifeontheotherside, Amos, South Gate, Ditch_Digging_Yasper, Mined,

denisewallerlaughlin, heshealing, Reachingforward, Aleutian...


No-shows: LampFromIkea, Sh*tOnYourCalendar,ThisWillBeFun, WeBindAsbestos

This app cited continues to be helpful in my life.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: June 01, 2022 11:04AM

Reep wrote:
Anyway, thank you for all your hard work and concern for this place to learn and heal.

Much appreciated, Reep.
BTW, one thing that has helped me the past 3-4 years is having a consistent meditation practice. The app I use the most is Waking Up, created by Sam Harris.

www.wakingup.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2023 03:55AM by changedagain.

seventies walker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> X-File Christian........the truth is out
> there..... that’s me.

seventies walker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> X-File Christian........the truth is out
> there..... that’s me.


still true

A different perspective on JRS and his 'ministry'--from January of 2018:

Posted by: acesandates
Date: January 05, 2018 05:56PM

All this bellyaching about the Apostolic ministry of John Robert Stevens. Regrets that you opened yourselves to the charismatic ecstasy of the living word flowing through him back then, especially in the late 60s and early 70s. JRS carried, indeed incarnated, the presence of Christ. Was the apostolic movement a perfectly organized religious operation or corporation? No. Was it efficiently operated? Oh hell no! But the Spirit and the cross of Jesus moved on us, in us, through us. And the revelation came. And its salvation was immediate, concrete and transforming of our being-in-the-world. And then, when things become too political, the thing to do was back-off. I and my family did. Nobody from "The Walk" coerced us or tried to about anything. Anc today, I miss the weekend circuit runs of Anaheim, Southgate & Sepulveda, the anointing and fellowship flowing hot like lava. And so I thank God for the call on my life to come to southern California back then, to learn of the Holy Spirit and how to walk in the Word of God. We were all advised if you recall,to calculate the cost/risk-benefit. After which we then put our hands to the plow. So I, for one, miss the Apostle, and Brother RD Cronquist, thank them, and I was a nobody, just someone coming to a corrogated sheet metal pole barn with hay on the floor. But the Spirit was there. The body was there, not with all that religious trimming about "ecclesia" and all that-- just people called by Spirit God's Resurrected Christ to taste & see.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: January 05, 2018 10:17PM

acesandates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
All this bellyaching about the Apostolic ministry
of John Robert Stevens. Regrets that you opened
yourselves to the charismatic ecstasy of the
living word flowing through him back then,
especially in the late 60s and early 70s.

Yes, many of us did open up to the charismatic ego of one John Robert Stevens. And we bare the scars to prove it. No bellyaches, however. At least with me.

JRS carried, indeed incarnated, the presence of Christ.

No he didn't. He was a man, completely fallible. His exaltation by the fellowship into God status was the root of much of the problems that walk, and later TLWF, faced. He did, obviously have a gift for preaching. But unfortunately, he routinely used it manipulate the congregation into more and more sacrifice that benefited him personally.

Was the apostolic movement a perfectly organized religious operation or corporation? No.

Not only was it not perfect, it was barely functional. It simply surrounded and enabled controlling leadership. Note: You didn't remain in a position of authority without echoing the message of the leaders...even if that message changed day by day.

But the Spirit and the cross of Jesus moved on us, in us,
through us. And the revelation came.

'The cross' was often the beat down of people for not doing or being what leadership dictated. The cross of Jesus was non-existent. The cross was infused by love. Revelation? Please.

And its salvation was immediate, concrete and transforming of our being-in-the-world.

Wow, that's some hyperbole!

Nobody from "The Walk" coerced us or tried to about anything.

Your experience was rare. Congrats. The Walk I experienced, and many on this board, was filled with coercion--implicit and explicit. I think being told you were going to be killed for not conducting yourself in a certain manner qualifies as coercion

We were all advised if you recall,to calculate the
cost/risk-benefit. After which we then put our
hands to the plow.

The risks were veiled. They were only revealed after a person became immersed into culture. Trust me...if from the outset you were told this movement had 'the Apostle to the Kingdom', there were Nephilim resisting his ministry (among them, his wife), we were to pray for their death (or the death of the spirit moving through them, a distinction many of us struggle with)asp)...and that our acceptance, in practice, depended upon our complete submission to the authority structure (the practice of 'divine order')...and that many of us would forgo our own financial security by giving to the 'upward flow"...(seek first to serve the apostle)...very few of us would have become involved.

So I, for one, miss the Apostle, and Brother RD Cronquist, thank them, and
I was a nobody, just someone coming to a corrogated sheet metal pole barn
with hay on the floor.

Your motivation may have been pure. But the motivation of those that used the labor and goodwill of the people was not. All the money that flowed into the accounts of ones like John was not put to the use of building the 'kingdom.' There was certainly a wide disparity between the finances and personal liberty of walk leadership, and the worker bees that populated the organization.

Posted by: acesandates
Date: January 05, 2018 10:17AM

Changedagain...you are awfully bitter and smug in your assessment of the apostolic ministry of JRS. Even if he was a charismatic ego (whatever that psychologically entailed) he also was an authentic apostolic vessel of Christ's spirit. And I, for one, twice underwent a direct experience of it, and it was spiritually circumcising to my heart and full of tranformative grace. I'm truly saddened that your subjective assessment of the way and experience of the Walk is construed from such a dark, victimizing and negative perspective, as though your position and rationalized understanding, as advanced, is dispositive concerning the sum & substance of the movement. For me, it was immersion in a latter day outpouring of the Resurrection Spirit, one imparting a new being to my existence that liberated my consciousness and spiritual being from the restrictions & stultifying limitations of being dead in the without God. Doubtless our personal histories are divergent but I still "remember that we were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.” Eph. 2 God bless, brother...be well.

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: January 05, 2018 11:39AM

acesandates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Even if he [JRS] was a charismatic ego (whatever that
psychologically entailed) he also was an
authentic apostolic vessel of Christ's spirit.

Acesandates, with all due respect, what is your evidence of JRS being "an authentic vessel of Christ's spirit"? It seems that you used very subjective measures, personal feelings and experiences. What objective proof did you see from his ministry to convince you that he was either a modern day apostle or a minister of Christ's Spirit?

For me, it was immersion in a latter day
outpouring of the Resurrection Spirit, one
imparting a new being to my existence that
liberated my consciousness....

Glad that you still have such great feelimgs and memories about your experiences from fifty years ago, acesandates. It doesn't seem that you stuck it out long enough to see all the bad fruit that came out of the TLWF movement founded by John Robert Stevens in 1951. There were many destroyed lives, ruined finances, and people so forever frightened of becoming involved in such an all-consuming group that they cannot even pray or open a Bible, let alone walk into a church. Did you receive a resurrection body from your experienes with the "Resurrection Spirit"? Did John?

Posted by: seventies walker
Date: January 05, 2018 03:48PM

Have to reply to acesandates.
John Robert Stevens was deceived and was a false prophet.
I was deceived and thought I was a prophet. We were all deceived and living a lie. >>>>>>>
Fond memories of the good times do not change the facts.

Excellent choices for reposting, Changed. I was looking at the same time period yesterday. January 5th, 2018 was a busy day for a few of us. The fur was flying on that day. Boy, howdy!

If I recall correctly, as the year went on there was a lot more 'fur' flying in the forum. I did not instigate any of it, of course, since I somehow manage to always have a 'right spirit'--no matter the situation.
Note: please do not fact-check this with my wife. Just take it by faith, O.K.?
Thanks!

Reepicheep Wrote:
Excellent choices for reposting, Changed. I was
looking at the same time period yesterday. January
5th, 2018 was a busy day for a few of us. The fur
was flying on that day. Boy, howdy!

A few more posts from January of 2018:

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: January 08, 2018 07:53PM

changedagain wrote:
BTW, I recall Gary stating that John's death
actually brought down Satan, which if people
believe it, would make John even more revered (if
that is possible).

I remember that too, changedagain. I think he reappeared, didn't he? Also, I distinctly remember sermons in which the members were blamed for "killing" JRS because we didn't pray hard enough. Talk about a guilt trip!

Actually, it seemed to me that in more recent years, the congregation got the brunt of the blame for things going wrong. And as has been brought up before, the instructions could change on a dime. I don't know how many times I went home from church feeling like a failure after the sermon (word). Somehow, it was never G&M's error for not being clear. It was that the people totally misconstrued what they had said. Good times!

Posted by: puddington
Date: January 08, 2018 09:20PM

I recall hearing in LW services, teachings about the “unforgivable sin”, i.e. blaspheming the Holy Spirit. It was said that to deny that Christ was coming forth in his people was equivalent to blaspheming the Holy Spirit. The LW teaches that the 2nd coming of Christ will happen with Christ coming forth in his body first. Then later, the actual reappearing of Jesus. This doctrine empowers the leaders to claim they have the mind of Christ. It was said often (in back room meetings) that to have “Marilyn’s thinking” was to have the mind of Christ.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: January 08, 2018 11:01PM

There was an immense amount of pressure during my 21 years involvement in the walk/TLWF (1976-1997) to regard the voice coming from leadership (John, Marilyn, Gary) as the voice of God. John himself often said from the pulpit that the word he spoke was the equivalent of scripture, and in fact, was elevated beyond scripture since it was supposedly revealing what God was doing now ('living word'). When the mantle supposedly fell to Gary/Marilyn, the same held true. To question them was to question God...committing the original sin in the garden ('hath God said?"). Heavy stuff. With that type of clout over the fellowship, the door to control people's lives (which is really what 'divine order' became") was unlimited. As people who spent many years in this cult have noted in this forum, over and over again, every aspect of a person's life was subject to surveillance by 'Christ in the flesh' (aka Big Brother in the Flesh). I think the purpose of the 'designated relationship' phase during G & M's reign...was to keep tabs on the thoughts and actions of members of the fellowship, so any resistance could be swiftly dealt with. Apologists who scoff at the idea of coercion, either are ignorant (perhaps because they lived on the periphery), or purposely dishonest...for whatever motivation. The place was, and likely still is, saturated with coercion. It's scary even thinking of breaking away from this cult when you are heavily involved...as evidenced by the stories of the many who have done so in this forum, and the difficulties they experienced.

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: January 09, 2018 04:31AM

I can't remember when this changed, but in the late sixties, the Living Word was when John would "be taken over by the spirit of the Lord" and give very long prophecies. I believe that he often or always spoke in the first person at these times, i.e. "I the Lord say unto thee" thus and so. He also spoke in King James English at these times. The prophecies, or Living Words, were published in books by the same name. Then, at some point, everything he said was the Living Word. I had forgotten about that. Maybe that's when he decided that he didn't have to wait for a special anointing because he was "Christ in the flesh".

Posted by: TheycalledmeJonah
Date: January 09, 2018 07:42AM

One aspect of the Living Word Churches which always made me feel weird was that as a church, they are always pushing toward something - breaking through. What does that even mean. It seems as though all the words brought are meant to "fix" us so that we can break through into something. Through the words brought by the senior pastors (gary, JRS, etc.), concepts are presented that have a sense of urgency. Like a few years ago, there were a few words brought about the blood moon and its significance and it tickled everyone's fancy for a few weeks to a month. And then the next thing comes in a word to interest people, and the cycle continues.

To me, this cycle has a few negative effects. One of the effects is when words come bringing some new concept of something we need to attain, we still haven't gotten the last thing that the pastor talked about. This always made me feel like I wasn't good enough, or couldn't grasp what they were bringing, and I felt like I could never catch up. Made me feel inadequate. I never knew JRS and my whole walk experience has been with G and M being the leaders. The new "revelations" that came were mostly just JRS messages repeated to us. I always thought it was funny how often we were told "This is the missing piece to breaking through!"

Yeah, he keeps coming back. I just hope he doesn't start channeling himself through Scott and Charity's podcast. I've been really enjoying it up to this point.

Reep wrote:
I remember that too, changedagain. I think he reappeared, didn't he?

changedagain wrote:
BTW, I recall Gary stating that John's death
actually brought down Satan, which if people
believe it, would make John even more revered (if
that is possible).

I think that was by design, TCMJ:

TheyCalledMeJonah wrote:
To me, this cycle has a few negative effects. One of the effects is when words come bringing some new concept of something we need to attain, we still haven't gotten the last thing that the pastor talked about. This always made me feel like I wasn't good enough, or couldn't grasp what they were bringing, and I felt like I could never catch up. Made me feel inadequate.