Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: November 02, 2023 10:00AM
What does MIW stand for?
I thought I told you that I'm not good with acronyms.
Just venture a guess.
Make it worse?
Where did that come from?
For whatever reason, I was envisioning a TLWF leader counseling a congregant who had experienced a traumatic event.
I thought I told you that I'm not good with acronyms.
Just venture a guess.
Make it worse?
Where did that come from?
For whatever reason, I was envisioning a TLWF leader counseling a congregant who had experienced a traumatic event.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Reepicheep
()
Date: November 03, 2023 07:11AM
JezTheBelle wrote:
Proverbs 11:9
"With his mouth the godless man would destroy his neighbor, but by knowledge the righteous are delivered"
For once the buggers got it right. It WAS knowledge that delivered us. Not G&M and certainly not some plagiarized "Word" or even "submission." It was knowledge. And we've certainly been delivered.
And about that destroying neighbors part?
Best have a bit of a look in the mirror there, guys. Hypocrisy doesn't mean what you think it does. Apparently, neither does neighbor, Never mind "brother" and "sister."
**************
Oh, Jez, you nailed it! I was just thinking that I should probably look up Proverbs 11:9. And there it is. Boom. I always wondered why a creator would have created people with brains if not to think with them.
Proverbs 11:9
"With his mouth the godless man would destroy his neighbor, but by knowledge the righteous are delivered"
For once the buggers got it right. It WAS knowledge that delivered us. Not G&M and certainly not some plagiarized "Word" or even "submission." It was knowledge. And we've certainly been delivered.
And about that destroying neighbors part?
Best have a bit of a look in the mirror there, guys. Hypocrisy doesn't mean what you think it does. Apparently, neither does neighbor, Never mind "brother" and "sister."
**************
Oh, Jez, you nailed it! I was just thinking that I should probably look up Proverbs 11:9. And there it is. Boom. I always wondered why a creator would have created people with brains if not to think with them.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: November 04, 2023 09:14PM
From May of 2019:
Posted by: larry bobo
Date: May 15, 2019 11:55AM
At the time of John’s death, the upward flow had already started. As Gary and Marilyn took control of the organization, the level of control and focus on them increased dramatically. There were a few members of the third generation that had referred to John as “Christ in the Flesh”, but to most, he was the “Door Opener Apostle” and Marilyn was "The Lamp of Israel". I believe in most local churches, Marilyn’s name was substituted for God’s in worship songs – while Gary was married to her. Many remember the service where leaders were asked to pledge their allegiance to and spiritually marry Marilyn - quite weird! You can’t have a higher position than to want to be worshiped as God. For Gary to try and distance himself from the hierarchy is ludicrous. He controls everything and yet seems to not want to take responsibility for anything.
Anyone who has ever served on a church corporation knows you served only as a figurehead. Gary and Marilyn made all the decisions. The last corporation I served on in Palmer Lake had in its Bylaws that if there was disagreement among the Board, the Apostolic Fathering Ministry – Gary and Marilyn – had the final say. You were basically on the corporation to do the legwork, but really had no say in anything of significance. The local church leadership reported to Apco weekly, and they in turn reported to Gary and Marilyn. I was removed several times from positions in the church for questioning things that have now come out in the open and everyone can see they needed to be questioned – e.g. the kingdom dawning in 1979, shepherding and designated relationships, false words from God, failed prophesies, and the cover up of sexual relationships between pastors and congregants – including John.
Posted by: larry bobo
Date: May 15, 2019 11:55AM
At the time of John’s death, the upward flow had already started. As Gary and Marilyn took control of the organization, the level of control and focus on them increased dramatically. There were a few members of the third generation that had referred to John as “Christ in the Flesh”, but to most, he was the “Door Opener Apostle” and Marilyn was "The Lamp of Israel". I believe in most local churches, Marilyn’s name was substituted for God’s in worship songs – while Gary was married to her. Many remember the service where leaders were asked to pledge their allegiance to and spiritually marry Marilyn - quite weird! You can’t have a higher position than to want to be worshiped as God. For Gary to try and distance himself from the hierarchy is ludicrous. He controls everything and yet seems to not want to take responsibility for anything.
Anyone who has ever served on a church corporation knows you served only as a figurehead. Gary and Marilyn made all the decisions. The last corporation I served on in Palmer Lake had in its Bylaws that if there was disagreement among the Board, the Apostolic Fathering Ministry – Gary and Marilyn – had the final say. You were basically on the corporation to do the legwork, but really had no say in anything of significance. The local church leadership reported to Apco weekly, and they in turn reported to Gary and Marilyn. I was removed several times from positions in the church for questioning things that have now come out in the open and everyone can see they needed to be questioned – e.g. the kingdom dawning in 1979, shepherding and designated relationships, false words from God, failed prophesies, and the cover up of sexual relationships between pastors and congregants – including John.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: November 04, 2023 09:24PM
Jez,
Here's a few posts mentioning John allegedly bringing down Satan with his death. Then Satan returned, of course. Perhaps he'll be brought down again in the near future by another apostle's death. We can only hope.
;)
Posted by: paleface
Date: March 24, 2011 08:28AM
Gary has recently admitted over the pulpit "Some mistakes have been made in the past. We are not perfect.". But that's about the extent of it. You don't get any details about what he is referring to and there is no indication of repentance of corrections to the sources of the mistakes.....unless blame was placed on a person and that person was removed from leadership. And, I guess it is easy to fault JRS and claim "His big error was not opening up to Marilyn all the way". The hint is that John missed the mark here. Was that the "big mistake"? I don't think so.
But what I find disturbing is apparently no discussion about words that were brought that appear to have been flawed. No discussion about "Satan being brought down by John"....or... "The Kingdom is coming in 1979". No revision of unfulfilled prophecy. It's as if these words from JRS and G&M stand true and are 100% perfect. Nothing is revised or edited as it stands up in the face of time and what has transpired. And, like you said, if you question this, you are regarding in the fellowship as someone with a "critical spirit" and thus being a vessel of witchcraft.
Posted by: kBOY
Date: December 18, 2019 01:04AM
Let us not forget that JRS' passing also brought down Satan--until it didn't.
It is funny how all these years we interceded for 'resurrection life', and yet the only one who was a beneficiary was Satan him/herself--or so we are told.
Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: January 08, 2018 07:53PM
changedagain wrote:
____________________________________
> BTW, I recall Gary stating that John's death
> actually brought down Satan, which if people
> believe it, would make John even more revered (if
> that is possible).
I remember that too, changedagain. I think he reappeared, didn't he? Also, I distinctly remember sermons in which the members were blamed for "killing" JRS because we didn't pray hard enough. Talk about a guilt trip!
Actually, it seemed to me that in more recent years, the congregation got the brunt of the blame for things going wrong. And as has been brought up before, the instructions could change on a dime. I don't know how many times I went home from church feeling like a failure after the sermon (word). Somehow, it was never G&M's error for not being clear. It was that the people totally misconstrued what they had said. Good times!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2023 09:25PM by changedagain.
Here's a few posts mentioning John allegedly bringing down Satan with his death. Then Satan returned, of course. Perhaps he'll be brought down again in the near future by another apostle's death. We can only hope.
;)
Posted by: paleface
Date: March 24, 2011 08:28AM
Gary has recently admitted over the pulpit "Some mistakes have been made in the past. We are not perfect.". But that's about the extent of it. You don't get any details about what he is referring to and there is no indication of repentance of corrections to the sources of the mistakes.....unless blame was placed on a person and that person was removed from leadership. And, I guess it is easy to fault JRS and claim "His big error was not opening up to Marilyn all the way". The hint is that John missed the mark here. Was that the "big mistake"? I don't think so.
But what I find disturbing is apparently no discussion about words that were brought that appear to have been flawed. No discussion about "Satan being brought down by John"....or... "The Kingdom is coming in 1979". No revision of unfulfilled prophecy. It's as if these words from JRS and G&M stand true and are 100% perfect. Nothing is revised or edited as it stands up in the face of time and what has transpired. And, like you said, if you question this, you are regarding in the fellowship as someone with a "critical spirit" and thus being a vessel of witchcraft.
Posted by: kBOY
Date: December 18, 2019 01:04AM
Let us not forget that JRS' passing also brought down Satan--until it didn't.
It is funny how all these years we interceded for 'resurrection life', and yet the only one who was a beneficiary was Satan him/herself--or so we are told.
Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: January 08, 2018 07:53PM
changedagain wrote:
____________________________________
> BTW, I recall Gary stating that John's death
> actually brought down Satan, which if people
> believe it, would make John even more revered (if
> that is possible).
I remember that too, changedagain. I think he reappeared, didn't he? Also, I distinctly remember sermons in which the members were blamed for "killing" JRS because we didn't pray hard enough. Talk about a guilt trip!
Actually, it seemed to me that in more recent years, the congregation got the brunt of the blame for things going wrong. And as has been brought up before, the instructions could change on a dime. I don't know how many times I went home from church feeling like a failure after the sermon (word). Somehow, it was never G&M's error for not being clear. It was that the people totally misconstrued what they had said. Good times!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2023 09:25PM by changedagain.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: November 06, 2023 12:53AM
The Titanic voyage was not perfect either.
#ControversialStance
Gary has recently admitted over the pulpit "Some mistakes have been made in the past. We are not perfect.".
#ControversialStance
Gary has recently admitted over the pulpit "Some mistakes have been made in the past. We are not perfect.".
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: November 07, 2023 03:33AM
A few posts from July of 2018:
Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: July 13, 2018 10:08PM
changedagain Wrote:
The truth about the nefarious ways of TLWF leadership through the years is surfacing, causing quite the reaction. Here's an excerpt from the latest 'living word' emanating from Shiloh (below). It's the same twisting of reality, but the warnings/threats to the people to stay obedient is as intense as ever. People attempting to get free from the clutches of the cult can be an ugly, dangerous process--as many of us here know:
"This Word shows us that as we move out of a place of relative safety in our walk with God and into harm’s way, our obedience to the Father will
determine life or death. We will face lies about the Word of God and against the Father Himself which will attempt to deceive us into being disobedient and losing God’s protection."
"Our Survival Is Based On Obedience"
June 29, 2018 - by Gary Hargrave
I am really concerned about this. He is headed in a direction that could very well bring devastating harm to people who have faithfully followed--when he tells them they have failed and fallen out of favor with God and God will now be raising up people in Brazil to replace them. He will not do this gently. When M's funeral was held in Shiloh--I truly feared a Jonestown--but it would be too obvious. People can be isolated and if the disappear of the face of the earth it will be an isolated "collateral damage" kind of thing. This is dead serious. I hope I am not just being nutty. But I can't imagine the level of depression setting in on people right now--the fear -- and the weariness. Just sayin'. Hope I am wrong.
Posted by: changedagain
Date: July 14, 2018 06:34AM
I share that assessment. I couldn't care less about him--he's evil. But the faithful are in a very vulnerable place, especially after being told that after all these years of sacrifice they still have not fulfilled the fundamental requirement of being obedient. He's been repeatedly pounding that notion into them as a "word from god." All it takes is some significant negative event, especially involving Shiloh (he's been hinting that they need to "drink from the cup") and the impact could send them into a tailspin they may never psychologically recover from. Of course, he will find a way to escape culpability, as he typically does. Perhaps spend even more time in one of his cushy places, ruminating in the delusion that he has been blameless before 'the father' and the people have not been worthy of 'the word' he has given them. And counting the money.
Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: July 13, 2018 10:08PM
changedagain Wrote:
The truth about the nefarious ways of TLWF leadership through the years is surfacing, causing quite the reaction. Here's an excerpt from the latest 'living word' emanating from Shiloh (below). It's the same twisting of reality, but the warnings/threats to the people to stay obedient is as intense as ever. People attempting to get free from the clutches of the cult can be an ugly, dangerous process--as many of us here know:
"This Word shows us that as we move out of a place of relative safety in our walk with God and into harm’s way, our obedience to the Father will
determine life or death. We will face lies about the Word of God and against the Father Himself which will attempt to deceive us into being disobedient and losing God’s protection."
"Our Survival Is Based On Obedience"
June 29, 2018 - by Gary Hargrave
I am really concerned about this. He is headed in a direction that could very well bring devastating harm to people who have faithfully followed--when he tells them they have failed and fallen out of favor with God and God will now be raising up people in Brazil to replace them. He will not do this gently. When M's funeral was held in Shiloh--I truly feared a Jonestown--but it would be too obvious. People can be isolated and if the disappear of the face of the earth it will be an isolated "collateral damage" kind of thing. This is dead serious. I hope I am not just being nutty. But I can't imagine the level of depression setting in on people right now--the fear -- and the weariness. Just sayin'. Hope I am wrong.
Posted by: changedagain
Date: July 14, 2018 06:34AM
I share that assessment. I couldn't care less about him--he's evil. But the faithful are in a very vulnerable place, especially after being told that after all these years of sacrifice they still have not fulfilled the fundamental requirement of being obedient. He's been repeatedly pounding that notion into them as a "word from god." All it takes is some significant negative event, especially involving Shiloh (he's been hinting that they need to "drink from the cup") and the impact could send them into a tailspin they may never psychologically recover from. Of course, he will find a way to escape culpability, as he typically does. Perhaps spend even more time in one of his cushy places, ruminating in the delusion that he has been blameless before 'the father' and the people have not been worthy of 'the word' he has given them. And counting the money.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Reepicheep
()
Date: November 07, 2023 10:55AM
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: November 08, 2023 02:17AM
fromsouthchicago did not take his cousin seriously:
Posted by: fromsouthchicago
Date: October 25, 2018 09:46AM
(excerpt)
I’m not sure this has been true for everyone in my extended family, but I know that for those in my immediate family and for me Marilyn, CLW and TLWF was a side show, something akin to a traveling carnival. I didn’t take anything that Marilyn said or did seriously. To me Marilyn as a con-artist and a fraud as well as a textbook example of a sociopath. So I knowing what she was and I didn't want anything to do with her or the CLW.
Carnivals and side shows may take your money, but they're transient and the harm that they do is short lived. They don't take people's lives away from them ... for years and in some cases, decades. As someone who's related to two of the people who have done so much harm, I really don't know what to say. But I shall look for opportunities to do what I can to help.
Posted by: fromsouthchicago
Date: November 19, 2020 10:43PM
If you want to know the truth, I called Marilyn "evil" in the flesh. Along with variety of other choice descriptions.
I'm not sure I'll ever understand what it was that resulted her being so twisted and power hungry. And her off-spring, Rick, my first cousin once removed. What turned him into such a monster? Was it just because he's Marilyn's son or something more? Absolute power corrupts absolutely? Or is there something more to consider?
I'll probably never have a complete understanding, but I am attempting to get my head around what made them what they were and are.
changedagain wrote:
> I presume you never related to her as
> the Lamp of Israel. :)
Reepicheep wrote:
> Changed, fromsouthchicago probably didn't have to
> call his cousin Christ in the flesh either. ...
Posted by: fromsouthchicago
Date: October 25, 2018 09:46AM
(excerpt)
I’m not sure this has been true for everyone in my extended family, but I know that for those in my immediate family and for me Marilyn, CLW and TLWF was a side show, something akin to a traveling carnival. I didn’t take anything that Marilyn said or did seriously. To me Marilyn as a con-artist and a fraud as well as a textbook example of a sociopath. So I knowing what she was and I didn't want anything to do with her or the CLW.
Carnivals and side shows may take your money, but they're transient and the harm that they do is short lived. They don't take people's lives away from them ... for years and in some cases, decades. As someone who's related to two of the people who have done so much harm, I really don't know what to say. But I shall look for opportunities to do what I can to help.
Posted by: fromsouthchicago
Date: November 19, 2020 10:43PM
If you want to know the truth, I called Marilyn "evil" in the flesh. Along with variety of other choice descriptions.
I'm not sure I'll ever understand what it was that resulted her being so twisted and power hungry. And her off-spring, Rick, my first cousin once removed. What turned him into such a monster? Was it just because he's Marilyn's son or something more? Absolute power corrupts absolutely? Or is there something more to consider?
I'll probably never have a complete understanding, but I am attempting to get my head around what made them what they were and are.
changedagain wrote:
> I presume you never related to her as
> the Lamp of Israel. :)
Reepicheep wrote:
> Changed, fromsouthchicago probably didn't have to
> call his cousin Christ in the flesh either. ...
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: November 08, 2023 02:18AM
Yes
Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Another excellent episode of Oops! I'm In A Cult
is up on YouTube.
[youtu.be]
Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Another excellent episode of Oops! I'm In A Cult
is up on YouTube.
[youtu.be]
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: November 08, 2023 11:32AM
The podcast reminded me of this exhortation to the Valley church by an L.A. shepherd, not known for his social skills:
"If you're not going to respect Marilyn as Christ then get the fuck out of my church."
"If you're not going to respect Marilyn as Christ then get the fuck out of my church."
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.