Imapurple wrote:
The evil I’ve seen with Rick, his mother and Gary goes without saying. Not to mention others like Scott, Steve and others.

Yes, the fruit of top leadership not being accountable, in practice, to the congregation.

Here's the first three (of ten) warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader, according to Rick Ross:

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

Imapurple:
I just hope I can get past the hurt and pray others will be able to do the same.

I hope you're doing better, Imapurple. Thanks again for your weighty contributions to this forum.

Have you ever applauded after a comment during a church service?

Just once.

When?

It was at a Sunday morning feast service in the Valley. The pastor/dentist told the congregation that he was just there for Gary & Marilyn, no one else.

And you applauded that?

Yes. At the time, I just didn't want anyone to be in church because of me. It was sort of a relief.

Marilyn, turn it off!!
(I suppose it is too late now)

pressingonbyHisgrace wrote:
That witch would come to Anaheim and beat the sheep, when she wasn't blatantly flirting from the podium with Gary and others.

The latest episode of Scott & Charity's podcast:

[youtu.be]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2023 07:10AM by changedagain.

From August 2018:

Posted by: rrmoderator
Date: August 14, 2018 02:11AM
(excerpt)

It's about the behavior and group dynamics of the Living Word Fellowship, The Walk and how its leadership treated people.

It's also about the leadership structure and the issue of accountability and financial transparency.

People can believe whatever they wish, but they cannot do whatever they want in the name of their beliefs.

People posting here are questioning what was done by a religious group that claimed to be responsible to and represent a higher purpose, but it seems behaved badly, exploited and hurt people.

Posted by: GoingRogue
Date: August 14, 2018 03:42AM

changedagain Wrote:
As your King, I will deal with this hierarchy
issue once and for all!--King G.

Too funny, changedagain. This reminds me of all the times that a member complained about the hierarchical way that the leaders related to people in the group. The members were the servants of the leaders. But if you dare say anything about it, it's you that has "position thinking" (Walk Talk for hierarchical thinking). Now you not only have to continue serving and financially supporting the leader in style, you must also grovel and repent for noticing the disparity. So warped!

All hail, King G!

Approximately three years ago:

Posted by: puddington
Date: October 13, 2020 12:07AM

Shiloh has been torched.

Posted by: CARe
Date: October 13, 2020 01:47AM

One of the KVF fireman asked me last week if I knew any former or current congregants that would be disgruntled enough to shoot at them when they light it (Shiloh) up!?! I was shocked at the question and my first reaction from years of conditioning was, "oh it wasn't THAT bad" I stopped myself from saying it out loud. I told him that I honestly cannot think of anyone that would. But over the last 3 days all the times in middle & high school that I had defended it as NOT being a cult came flooding back. It was as emotional for me as when I first read Shalom's letters followed by all the other stories. Although I wasn't angry this time like I was 2 years ago. I am just very very sad. It was time for it to go.

Contrary to some stories; Sunday evening was picked as the day due to KVF being an all volunteer department and most of them have M-F jobs and there was a wedding on Saturday that about 1/2 of them wanted to attend. So let's not put twists where there aren't any :-)

Posted by: changedagain
Date: October 13, 2020 02:29AM

Thanks for you post, CARe

Although I wasn't angry this time like I was 2 years ago. I am just very very sad.

Yes, understandable

Contrary to some stories; Sunday evening was picked as the day due to KVF being an all volunteer department and most of them have M-F jobs and there was a wedding on Saturday that about 1/2 of them wanted to attend. So let's not put twists where there aren't any :-)

Were there people speculating about this, CARe?

Posted by: CARe
Date: October 13, 2020 10:33AM

Were there people speculating about this, CARe?

Yes, I saw a post on FB speculating about the significance of burning on a Sunday at sundown. In Iowa the wind typically dies down during the evening. It was rather windy yesterday afternoon and they contemplated delaying but ultimately decided to proceed. Ideally it would have been burned about 6 weeks ago but it was so dry here in August and September that they were afraid of embers falling in the woods even with no wind.

I had another memory of G&M's apartment today. I was only inside once when I was in HS, a classmate was purchasing a bra from MH before she was married to JRS. Apparently this was how MH supported herself. I went with my classmate to pick it up in JRS's apt and MH asked us if we knew how to properly put on a bra. The look on my face must have told her because neither of us said anything and she said "no you don't" She then told us how to put one on by bending over to get proper support but thankfully didn't demonstrate lol Come to think of it this was about a year before "Girls turn it off" (I did not see JRS while I was in his apt).

I worked at the switchboard a lot my last 2 years of HS and at that time all the calls went through the switchboard. Consequently I transferred calls regularly from MH (JRS's apt) to Phyllis or Moreen. Sometimes I would briefly wonder why she was always in his apt and wondered if she had a room in his apt??? But then I would quickly banish those thoughts because they were doing important work and who am I to question things? Time frame would have been '78-'79 which I believe the victory siege was happening then. Looking back I wish I had questioned things more but hindsight is always 20-20.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: October 13, 2020 11:15PM

CARe wrote:
Sometimes I would briefly wonder why she was always in his apt and wondered if she had a room in his apt???

Perhaps a safe room where she could practice putting on bras and taking them off? Just speculating.

Posted by: TheJewel
Date: October 14, 2020 12:06AM

Bummer. When I was in the San Diego (Coniah) church in the process of “blowing out” one of the then “ministries” (Stuart R. - if I remember correctly) said I needed to spend some time at Shiloh and get a “revelation” of what the lord was doing. Looks like I procrastinated too long - it’s too late now. You snooze, you lose, I guess.

Was Marilyn compensated for serving as John's secretary?
Nevermind.

CARe wrote:
a classmate was purchasing a bra from MH before she was married to JRS. Apparently this was how MH supported herself.

From August of 2018:

Posted by: light777
Date: August 07, 2018 12:27PM
As I shared on a previous message, I was forced into this cult! I saw a lot! However, I trusted my Mother and I complied; eventually believing this BS, to the point that I uprooted my life and moved to the "inner camp" to be close to TLW and very much a part of TLW and G&M, along with their family.

In the beginning, after I moved to LA, I would often call my Mother to share some of the "inner Living Word behaviors"; by those in "high" positions. At this point, I would just share what I saw with my own eyes, and heard with my own ears.

Mother would tell me to pray for these great men of God because they are battled greatly. I thought to myself, this is weird... this can't be God... How could my Mother be so ignorant, or blinded, but maybe she was correct, perhaps I am being "disobedient"!! Ugggggghhhhhh... I should have trusted my gut!

I was afraid that if I left, I would be punished, thus losing my place in the "Kingdom"... as a SON!! As a CHOSEN ONE... One of the ELITE!!!

As time progressed, I became friends with others that were not only in G&M's inner circle, but was even more so in JRS's inner circle. It was a particular couple that further enlightened me on the following:

* Affairs of JRS... One of JRS's illegitimate sons.

* Marilyn and Gary's relationship, how they spent weeks on end alone in Las Vegas after John died.

* The details / scandal of Ricks affairs / wives

* Other TLW affairs / divorces

* The preferential treatment of those close to G&M and those that were ousted by G&M... God forbid we utter their name!

* I learned of all those that were getting ordained, that had nothing to do with ministry, but took advantage of the benefits!

Then there were the labors of "LOVE". The time spent serving the "elite", with ZERO compensation. And I guess that would have been okay, UNTIL, you did not show up to fulfill your charity "FREE" work... Then the wrath of the Powers to be would fall upon your head. The guilt and shame that they bestowed upon my head was too much... so I slithered back in, tail between my legs to continue to serve "Gods chosen elite"!

My reward?? Perhaps it was that I got to be in G&M's circle. I did not have to stand in the cattle line to talk to them, I could walk right by everyone to the front... I occasionally got to sit near them... I was included in family events... I was a part of their elite group. AND, now, today, what did any of this have to do with God?

I used to have a very good friend at TLW who was tormented daily by the evilness and wrongdoings of the TLW. Her children are knee deep in and her husband is so far up Rick's back-end! She played the game and continues to play the game because if she left, as she stated, she would lose her entire family. And there are so many more like this.

Of course I am just skimming the surface here, however I believe it is important for those of us to come forward and share our experiences. For me it helps to validate what I myself witnessed / experienced. And most importantly, I hope that our words will help others.

May our Heavenly Father Bless all of us that we continue our journey and healing process with the best of integrity and honesty.

Love & Light!

P.S. Onion... I know you! You were always one of my favorites! XOXO


Posted by: changedagain
light777 wrote:
I used to have a very good friend at TLW who was tormented daily by the evilness and wrongdoings of the TLW. Her children are knee deep in and her husband is so far up Rick's back-end! She played the game and continues to play the game because if she left, as she stated, she would lose her entire family. And there are so many more like this.

That's not uncommon. People were hesitant to make the move because they knew there was a very real possibility of it causing permanent divisions within the family. John, Gary and Marilyn have played this card masterfully through the years.
All three sociopaths, of course. Rick took sociopathy to a 'new level.'

"Oneness is you allowing me to exploit you."
-unauthorized kingdom proverb

"I'll tell you what to think after I have a few more drinks."
-another unauthorized kingdom proverb

From December of 2019:

Posted by: Northerngate
Date: December 02, 2019 04:25PM

Reepicheep said:
I'm not sure what the combination of factors is
that makes TLWF one of the most difficult groups
to leave. It undoubtedly has something to do with
the God-like status of John Robert Stevens.

My heart was saddened that my landlord came into that group when he was nineteen. He said he went to a Billy Graham crusade and was looking for answers. Evidently, JRS snatched him up right after that.
I think my landlord was asked to do things that caused guilt and over time there was a tipping point he couldn’t come back from.

I think he was a recruiter but I don’t know that for sure.

I wonder if these leaders will just pick up again where they left off and continue to hurt people? It makes me mad as hell!!

Posted by: changedagain
Date: December 02, 2019 05:26PM

I recall your landlord being very personable and approachable during the time period I was in TLWF (21 years). But I suspect he was extremely loyal to top leadership (an admirable quality if the leaders deserved it), and probably had to break off relationships that meant a lot to him. I know I did that in the 80's, and I still regret it. However, I did go back (after finally leaving TLWF), and apologized to a few key families that I became callous to when they were not following "the word." In retrospect, they had the good sense to recognize (much earlier than me) that we were involved in a cult, and headed for the exit. Now, after much reflection, I consider the former leaders sociopaths--feigning concern for members of the fellowship, all the while manipulating them for their own personal interests. I doubt your landlord perceives them this way, which unfortunately allows them access to continue unduly influencing his life. And it is, and should be, his life.

Posted by: Northerngate
Date: December 02, 2019 07:06PM

Changedagain
Thank you for responding. Yes, I heard remnants of conversation indicating that relationships had been severed. I didn’t think of my landlord as a sociopath, but I thought of E.F. As a sociopath. Something about him seemed dangerous. Or at least that’s what he wanted people to think. That is who was leading my landlord. I think...

I guess I want you to know why I care. My dad was like a cult leader. He made my mother sever relationships with her family. She wasn’t allowed to have friends. My friends were limited. We didn’t have television so we didn’t know what was happening in the world. I grew up as one of the loneliest girls on the planet and at sixty I’m still trying to figure out how to have a decent relationship. I am so thankful for you all being willing to honestly dig through what must be heart wrenching at times.
I’m reading the book Cults Inside Out and I’m blown away by the similarities my dad has to a cult leader (he was an independent Baptist preacher, divorced and married 6 times)
I had thanksgiving with my dad but it was as empty as all get out! Not much relationship to hang onto.

Technology has forever changed the ability of sociopathic leaders to effectively conceal or withhold information, and many people have ultimately left cults as a direct result of this reality.

Thanks again for letting me speak. For some reason I feel like I’m butting in and I don’t want to go where I shouldn’t.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: December 02, 2019 07:32PM

I doubt any of the regular posters feel you are 'butting in.' You've clearly gone through and struggled with the same things that we have.
As far as your landlord, when I knew him he was easy to like, and we often laughed together about things. I think you're right about E.F., though.

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: December 02, 2019 07:45PM

Northerngate,
Please don't feel like you're walking on eggshells here. You had some connection to and knowledge of TLWF. Your growing up sounds very cult-like. I'm so sorry. What people do to others in the name of religion is so sad. I agree with you about the similarities between cults. I read Cults Inside Out, too. It has great information that gives insight and perspective.

There was someone else who posted here for awhile who basically grew up in a family cult. His parents left The Walk before JRS died and used all they had learned to run a private cult with their children. The kids were under extreme control. Does anyone remember his screen name?

I'm glad that you are reading and posting. Please keep talking.

Posted by: Northerngate
Date: December 02, 2019 08:08PM

Reepicheep, Nancy B, changedagain,
Thank you so much for your affirmation. It’s been very difficult, as you are so fully aware, to talk about!! I hope you can feel me hugging your soul!

Posted by: kBOY
Date: December 03, 2019 07:43AM

N O R T H E R N

I doubt many of us in TLW (with the exception of those up-close-and-personal with leadership) ever experienced the degree of constant oppression you were forced to endure in your upbringing. That sounds downright suffocating.

Be that as it may, you are definitely qualified to speak on the subject, so please feel to free to chime in any time.

Outside observers help to bring perspective to just how distorted this 'kingdom vision' really was.

Posted by: puddington
Date: December 03, 2019 08:18AM

Northerngate Wrote:
Technology has forever changed the ability of
sociopathic leaders to effectively conceal or
withhold information, and many people have
ultimately left cults as a direct result of this
reality.

Gosh Northern, this is so true! We have the internet to thank for making information available to us in an easy and private way. I know that TLW members were told to not read the Rick Ross forum. But it’s so easy to be rebellious when the information is so available. Vive la liberté !!!

And then there is social media. This provided a perfect environment for Shalom’s testimony. If the “casette was invented for John’s word”, then the internet was invented for its undoing.

Posted by: Northerngate
Date: December 03, 2019 09:19AM

It is the weirdest feeling to become awake at age 50 or so and realize your upbringing is so wrong...so incredibly wrong! And you discover that the reason your relationships are so messed up is because the ideas you were taught separated you from healthy interaction. It’s so terrible to discover how incredibly selfish and narcissistic your family or church leader really is. It’s a huge kick to the gut that leaves you in an emotional ICU. And who is there to help? No one because you don’t know how to have healthy relationships. So your lay emotionally spent until one day you lift your head and have just enough energy to walk out of ICU. It isn’t pretty. People don’t understand. Communicating is difficult. But there you are...you’re in control. And slowly you begin to realize you have much better plans and ideas for your life than anyone else ever could. A tiny spark of happiness begins to grow. Freedom feels good.

Posted by: JesusJesusJesus
Date: December 03, 2019 02:57PM
(excerpt)

As I type, my hubby is reading over my shoulder and reminding me that John always said that sarcasm was the cesspool of the Body. Dang... wrong again!! I expect a phone call of correction from my shepherd at any minute.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: December 04, 2019 06:25AM

John was wrong. He probably needed a few sarcastic comments coming from his wife, family and concerned members of the fellowship every now and then. If he had been receptive, it might have grounded him from the insincere flattery that elevated him to a place where that he lost all touch with reality.
Personally, I think greed, arrogance and deceit had a much more malicious impact on the fellowship. The key leaders projected an attitude that the main purpose of people's lives were to serve them (as Christ). They used various tactics (bullying, lovebombing, ignoring, imposed labor etc.) to get people to this place of abject service. Of course, it had the net effect of grinding people into oblivion (zero with the rim rubbed out).

Posted by: kBOY
Date: December 04, 2019 06:27AM

J J J

Sarcasm well-deserved (a bulls-eye that TLW has certainly earned) is simply poking truth at deception with a SMILE. Rather than being a 'cess-pool', one might associate it in this case with the HEALING POWER of the Pool of Siloam.

Posted by: Northerngate
Date: December 04, 2019 07:10AM

I found something good today while reading during my lunch break:
Shame thrives on secret keeping, and when it comes to secrets, there’s some serious science behind the twelve-step program saying, “You’re only as sick as your secrets.”

Posted by: kBOY
Date: December 06, 2019 01:37PM

With all PTSD situations, the 'unpacking' is proportional to the amount that has been 'packed'. Is it a small onion (sorry ONION) or a 'whopper'.

Whatever modality works is all that matters; the whole range of traditional and non-tradition 'therapies' as well as writing, art, music, nature . . . fill in the blanks.

What does matter is that the 'application' be applied as often as necessary. I have a friend, Steve, who was a family-practice attorney who spent his life litigating emotional and sometimes explosive cases. His therapy now--walking the beach--every day. Cheap and effective.

We are in charge of our own healing, and the only world that can be saved is the one that comes before our face.

Posted by: Onion
Date: December 06, 2019 04:34PM

kBOY - Your friend's therapy is a good one. My law practice was also family law and that is part of the reason when I left the law practice, I left in a big way. The clients are going thru very dismal and emotional transitions and it's an unhappy place. I was very lucky in that I made some lifelong friends who continue to be friends on our journeys in life. But I wouldn't subject myself to that turmoil ever again.

I was drawn to areas of work that were steeped in conflict and turmoil. Gee, I wonder why.

I like this side of all of that. I'm enjoying my onion-ness and not necessarily focusing on constantly peeling. ;-)

Posted by: Onion
Date: December 06, 2019 06:01PM

OMG. I forgot the most important thing from my therapist. It all starts with making your priority over everything else, "SELF CARE." When you give all control over your life to someone (a cult), you put yourself on the back burner so entirely that you don't know where to start. Keep self-care as your priority and steps a few times a week and build from there.

Posted by: Northerngate
Date: December 07, 2019 07:23AM

Onion Wrote:
In creating a new life after the cult, make "Self
Care" your top priority. Even taking a small step
and doing something consistently that is caring
for yourself (preparing healthy meals, bathing
with a lovely new soap, etc.) starts the process
of removing the conditioning of the negative life
under cult control.

Recently I reconnected with my dad. It’s funny how you can forget over time how bad things could be. I had a bit of a relapse. Waking up with fear gut bombs in the middle of the night and not being able to concentrate during the day. Seems my PTSD got triggered. All of that to say, I stayed home from work for a couple of days to recover. I have difficulty allowing myself the small pleasures of life. Thanks for this reminder to be good to myself!!

Apparently people come back to this forum periodically just get their "flash of PTSD." Never again say that we do not have a purpose here. ;)

Posted by: 40yearsin2016
Date: December 16, 2016 06:23PM

"This collection of John Robert Stevens’ ministry of the living Word from July 1981 – December 1982 became an unfolding, crescendo of impartation — a creative tidal wave in the Kingdom of God on earth"

Been away for a while, reading this is a bit of a flash of PTSD. Just wanting to keep the record straight here...

"The Unfolding" wasn't a crescendo of impartation, it was the beginning of the end. It was a period of time where the "Word" that came was more and more confused and indeciferable. In hindsight John's words and actions had became erratic and dare I say a bit psychotic?

Later we came to understand that many of these recordings were made under the influence of alcohol and painkillers. John isolated himself within as small group of young, uneducated and inexperienced groupies in So. Cal.

In his paranoia he began in earnest to alienate the mature ministers who had helped build his empire. Within a short period of time, outside of LA, those ministries either left or were forced out/gone; huge congregations too: Seattle, Waukegan, Hew Hampshire, Detroit, Ohio, Waukegan, Grand Bend, Salt Lake, San Diego - and those are the ones I remember. By my guess somewhere between 5,000 and 15,000 congregrants dispersed in bitterness - an unfolding indeed...