ForgottenIA,
Below is one of the earliest posts about Shiloh. It deals exclusively with that person's summer camp experience as a "young adult." If I recall, almost all the posts on this subject deal with experience, very few (if any) about the decisions that went into designing the physical structure of that place. It's likely that most of those who could provide you with definitive answers about the facility itself are now gone (John Stevens, Ken Rich etc.)...or would not respond to you (Gary Hargrave). If you've read many of the 11,972 comments in this forum, you would know that the top leaders have always been resistant in answering questions such as the ones you are putting forth. Hence, why it has been identified by cult experts as a cult :)

Posted by: recoveredfinally
Date: October 08, 2006 01:46AM

Shiloh really was a slave camp. I was forced to work all day long in the blazing heat cutting rose bushes one summer. I fainted from exhaustion. Most summers were spent like this: wake up at 6am, take a 5 minute shower that is timed, go to breakfast, go "wait on the Lord" for an hour, go discuss waiting on the Lord, get your personal list of chores, do your chores from about 10am - 6pm. Eat dinner, go to church, sleep, wake up again. Some of the chores included:
1) weeding outdoors on the side of a pebble road that lead into the entrance of the church - and it was at least 90 + degrees -- or the humidity made it feel that way
2) weeding in the man-made lagoon where one year I was attacked by leeches when I sat in the sand
3) serving on the kitchen staff - the dish washing room was horrible because the dining room was already hot, but combined with the steam of the dish machine - it was 10 x worse!
4) scrubbing toilets and showers with a toothbrush
AND so forth....

In June of 2021, I posted this obsevation after rereading recoverdfinally's post.

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Reepicheep ()
Date: June 16, 2021 08:48AM

The above stories reported regarding YASP in Shiloh are very much in keeping with what I know to be true. I know for a fact that young people in the program fainted, had heat exhaustion, and suffered other serious ailments from doing hours of hard manual labor in the Iowa heat and humidity. I became ill once while guarding the front gate, and I wasn't doing hard labor in the blazing sun...just got dehydrated from not drinking enough water.

And now that information about the sexual abuse of minors has been made public, I'm glad that Shiloh is gone. The vast majority of people involved had no clue what the leaders were doing behind the scenes. They kept us so busy trying to please god (them) and following all the nitpicky rules and ridiculously detailed instructions for nearly everything. We couldn't possibly notice their bizarre and criminal behavior behind the scenes where we were never invited. But I still hate myself for not figuring it out.

Thank you for the few that have already acknowledged my post here!
As I’ve been wading through research I’ve struggled to organize my thoughts (I’m sure that’s no surprise!). Typically my write ups are mostly about a physical location, with a little history of its origins, however with Shiloh, I believe much more information about the organization is necessary (JRS Iowa ties, TLW history, and demise.)

I’ve put together a list of questions I’ve initially had, I’m assuming not every generation will be able to fully answer the list. (I have used this list as I have spoken to individuals directly, so not all of it applies here).

2. Was TLW always considered a cult-like environment to outsiders?
3. How did things change between JRS and Hargrave?
4. Was it difficult to leave TWL?
5. What was the construction timeline of Shiloh?
6. How did the community respond to Shiloh?
7. Did TLW members ever participate in community events / help in the community?
8. Was there parts of Shiloh that were off limits?
9. What activities did members do outside of “chores” and service at Shiloh?
10. How was the food at Shiloh?
11. Was drinking encouraged at Shiloh?
12. Was it ever clear what the long term plan was for Shiloh?
13. What exactly were the “sieges”?
14. What were the “mattress rooms”
15. What was so odd or unique about the amphitheater shows?
16. Was there ever exotic animals at Shiloh?
17. What was the “blix”?
18. Was the concept of Shiloh being the “center of the universe” ever explained?
19. Any other ideas or comments you can think of that may help me further under the story of Shiloh?

Again, I know this is a lot of questions, all the information I’ve been sifting through has been overwhelming.

I welcome anybody to PM me, or look up ForgottenIA on FB and message there (this will also be the platform the story is released on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2021 04:21AM by ForgottenIA.

ForgottenIA wrote:
Again, I know this is a lot of questions, all the information I’ve been sifting through has been overwhelming.

Living this has been overwhelming for most ex-members, especially those born into it. I was fortunate enough to have had a "life" prior to involving myself with this cult at the age of 22, after dropping out of college my junior year (University of Redlands) with a respectable GPA. So at least I have a reference point to what being semi-normal felt like.

note: I am now 66, so it would seem impractical, even to me, to finish my education. As one might say while in the Walk..."I have a check on it."

changedagain Wrote:
at the age of 22

actually, 21

This forum is for former cult members and affected families. You are neither. I doubt anyone will indulge you or your outrageous voyeuristic questions and by coming in here and casting about makes you as much a predator as any cult.

ForgottenIA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for the few that have already
> acknowledged my post here!
> As I’ve been wading through research I’ve
> struggled to organize my thoughts (I’m sure that’s
> no surprise!). Typically my write ups are mostly
> about a physical location, with a little history
> of its origins, however with Shiloh, I believe
> much more information about the organization is
> necessary (JRS Iowa ties, TLW history, and
> demise.)
>
> I’ve put together a list of questions I’ve
> initially had, I’m assuming not every generation
> will be able to fully answer the list. (I have
> used this list as I have spoken to individuals
> directly, so not all of it applies here).
>
> 2. Was TLW always considered a cult-like
> environment to outsiders?
> 3. How did things change between JRS and
> Hargrave?
> 4. Was it difficult to leave TWL?
> 5. What was the construction timeline of Shiloh?
> 6. How did the community respond to Shiloh?
> 7. Did TLW members ever participate in community
> events / help in the community?
> 8. Was there parts of Shiloh that were off
> limits?
> 9. What activities did members do outside of
> “chores” and service at Shiloh?
> 10. How was the food at Shiloh?
> 11. Was drinking encouraged at Shiloh?
> 12. Was it ever clear what the long term plan was
> for Shiloh?
> 13. What exactly were the “sieges”?
> 14. What were the “mattress rooms”
> 15. What was so odd or unique about the
> amphitheater shows?
> 16. Was there ever exotic animals at Shiloh?
> 17. What was the “blix”?
> 18. Was the concept of Shiloh being the “center of
> the universe” ever explained?
> 19. Any other ideas or comments you can think of
> that may help me further under the story of
> Shiloh?
>
> Again, I know this is a lot of questions, all the
> information I’ve been sifting through has been
> overwhelming.
>
> I welcome anybody to PM me, or look up ForgottenIA
> on FB and message there (this will also be the
> platform the story is released on.

This forum is for former cult members and affected families. You are neither. I doubt anyone will indulge you or your outrageous voyeuristic questions and by coming in here and casting about makes you as much a predator as any cult.

I respect your opinion, and nobody is obligated to share with me. However, there are many former members that are willing to. Some of them recommended me post here.

I'm simply trying to get as much correct information before I publish my piece. Thankfully some members have reached out and helped me see that there is much more than the face value of the term "cult", and that many former members are actually very incredible and hospitable individuals.

Thanks again to all that have reached out.

ForgottenIA:
Thankfully some members have reached out and helped me see that there is much more than the face value of the term "cult", and that many former members are actually very incredible and hospitable individuals.


That's surprising? Oh my.

Posts by Onion and Larry Bobo from October 2018:

Posted by: Onion
Date: October 20, 2018 10:42AM

Since Gary has announced he wants people to write letters so he can make his "new 360" evaluation, I decided to send him a letter. I don't have any illusions that he will do anything with this information but I at least wanted to take away his ability to say he had never heard of any of this stuff, as he lied about recently.

October 14, 2018
(Spelling & Grammar Corrections 10-17-18)

Sent by U.S. Mail to:
Gary Hargrave c/o Amy Sayer
Gary Hargrave c/o The Living Word

Sent by Email to:
Gary@
Bseboldt@

Dear Gary,

Over the past two years I have been advised by many people who are no longer part of the TLW fellowship, by others who may continue to be part of the church but who are struggling, and from those they may still be in contact with, that there are several issues that undermine any trust people may have of TLWF leadership and ApCo. There are many sticking points that could hinder the future success of the churches if not addressed and repaired.

1. Rick Holbrook: According to information from many former and current TLWF members, Rick has established himself in everyone’s minds as a sexual predator. There are many victims of inappropriate sexual conduct perpetrated by Rick in various church locations and at his home. In his “work with young people” he tends to take advantage of young women, and in some cases young men. His conduct is often defined as “grooming” young girls and women using tactics such as bombarding his subject with flattery, gifts, promises of them becoming “family,” emphasizing how special they are and how great their life would be if they would be with Rick. He ramps up his seduction attempts based on his representations to these women and girls that as JRS’ true son, it is the will of God for these women and girls to have sex with him, and that JRS would want them to be with Rick. He apparently tells women that the way they can bring in the kingdom is by being in a sexually intimate relationship with him. Some women have resisted after being lied to, pursued intensely with gifts and alcohol, and in many instances, overt sexual touching of breasts and genitals. Rick has even physically picked up women in his arms and carried her. Those who firmly and completely deny him, suffer consequences such as shunning, having their reputations tarnished and they are called sluts and other demeaning names behind the scenes. Sadly some of these women/girls have said that it was hard to discover they weren’t special after all when the truth is they were always special and Rick was preying on them.

On many different occasions, Rick hosts “young people” at his house for a Jacuzzi party and shares pornographic material and discusses sexual content and asks sexually graphic questions to the group, some of whom are underage.

Many of these women have communicated with various shepherds, including those in leadership in Shiloh, TLW, and CLW and including you and Marilyn. Each communication has resulted in no action. In some cases, after communication the women were overtly shunned and shamed. In other cases the women were asked to never speak of it again and to not keep a record of their communication.

2. School Employees & Ministers Education in Reporting Abuse: Many people have reported that instances of abuse, underage drinking (with the alcohol furnished by teachers, administrators and ministries), assaults or evident abuse, have occurred and none of those who are required by law to report such abuse have done so. Several former teachers have related that while in public school, and many private schools, a detailed training class in mandatory reporting laws is given so all teachers and school employees learn to recognize the signs of abuse and how their suspicions must be reported. Nothing like that occurs in TLWF schools or churches. Girls have made reports only to be told they are overreacting.

3. Parenting Interruption: Many people bear emotional scars because of a pattern of separating parents and children because someone in authority in the school or the church places themselves in a position of “knowing better” how a child should be raised. Parents have sometimes been belittled, treated in a dismissive manner, or spoken about in a negative way to the child. Many adults who suffered under this type of behavior are still struggling with negative conditioning from the experience. Likewise, parents still suffer with guilt over allowing someone to usurp their parental role and allowing their children to be used in this way.

4. Lack of Financial Honesty or Transparency: People who have given their lives and their time and money to TLWF and “Kingdom Businesses” have nothing to show for their hard work and dedication. Many were supporting a vision presented by TLWF leaders that is either no longer focused on or represents an ideal that just lingers in the realm of unfulfilled dreams. Seeing money received from the sacrifice of the people making certain leaders’ lives very cushy while some of the congregants live from pay check to pay check is deeply hurtful. In addition, the enormity of funds (including funds saved by using volunteer labor for personal projects) used on projects like the party house on Rayen with its elegant horse facility, the various bars (multiple bars) set up in locations throughout the churches, personal home maintenance and remodeling, the Christmas truck and its grueling schedule of work, etc., is beginning to take a serious toll on the emotions and trust of many current congregants. The toll especially shows in those who couldn’t take it anymore and left. Volunteers are employees and yet have no benefit of their employment by TLWF except maybe an occasional shout out from the pulpit, as if that moment of attention will make up for weeks, months, years of labor.

5. Attitudes & Lack of Training in Shepherds: A refrain that is exactly the same from each and every individual who has spoken concerning their past or current experience as a member of TLWF is the harsh treatment of being casually dealt with by the leadership and those called shepherds. Recrimination for behavior that was previously praised is frequent. There is no follow up with the persons disciplined and if the person departs the fellowship, no one bothers to call to find out how the person is doing. A large number of these people were giving, dedicated members for as many as 40 years, or their entire lives. The dismissal of shepherds who disappear without the congregants understanding ANYthing is frequent. Some people have called this a pattern of getting rid of the people who know too much about Rick, financial improprieties, and other wrongdoings. That’s the way it appears to people who see it happen but are never told the truth.

6. Confidentiality. People generally do not feel that their privacy is respected or protected in any situation where they pour out their hearts to TLWF leadership. Some people were made aware that Rick has wired CLW for sound and for visual surveillance or recording so that he or others can record, listen to, or watch any meetings in any location at CLW, TLW, Shiloh and many other places.


I hope this is helpful to you in your review of church policies and procedures. Whether each fact stated is true is not for me to say. Independent investigation and transparency would be a solution.

If you wish to speak directly to any of the people I am quoting, some of them would be willing to participate in a meeting with you and others. Just let me know via email at: m-wyatt@ and I will do my best to coordinate this for you.

Sincerely,

(Originals with signature will be sent to the USPS locations noted above.)

Mary L. Wyatt

Posted by: larry bobo
Date: October 21, 2018 12:18PM

Onion – Thank you for articulating so well several issues that have deeply wounded members of TLWF. Thank you also for making your letter public so that those in and out of TLWF will be able to witness Gary’s response to what you have written. I’m hoping that it will bear fruit. I’m sure Gary will at least read it. I sent a similar letter on January 9, 1994 listing 7 areas of concern – all different from yours (e.g. the kingdom dawning in 1979, John bringing down Satan with his death from cancer, and the isolation of TLWF from other Christian groups – FYI, 24 years later I still question all 7 areas). Their response was to remove me from all ministry and not allow me to speak in services (including prayer and prophesy) for the next year until I learned not to question the leadership. I had simply responded after being encouraged to speak up if we had areas of concern – similar to what people are being encouraged to do now. Hopefully you will have more leverage by communicating from outside TLWF and the manipulation of the leadership.

I’m also grateful for some of the things you have confirmed that many have suspected. Since all of us are human, we have a pretty good idea of what humans are capable of doing. However, it may be a little shocking for some to find out that “Christ in the flesh” has been doing the very things that they have told us not to do. They are only as much “Christ in the flesh” as they have conned us into believing – not as evidenced by the fruit of the Spirit in their lives. Also, they only have as much control over our lives as we choose to give them. Part of our journey to freedom is making the decision to give them nothing and accepting responsibility for our own lives.