Recalling (again) what I consider to be the most unintentionally hilarious question ever asked of John Robert Stevens, by a member of the congregation:

"IF YOU ARE NOT THE CHRIST, THEN WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?"
-Happy Clark
(RIP)

note: John left the question unanswered, fueling further speculation within the fellowship that he indeed was the Christ (along with thousands of others on the planet claiming the same).

And yet, some will live out their lives convinced that 'The Apostle' spoke a "word from God," was laying the foundation for the Kingdom age, and was motivated by a consuming love for God's people. Those who had personal encounters with him as lowly 'sheep,' however, tended to think otherwise. A couple posts from FoolMeTwice...suggests that who he presented himself to be behind the pulpit was not in alignment with the way he conducted himself behind the scenes--a trait not uncommon among charismatic leaders, of course:

Posted by: fool me twice
Date: March 24, 2019 01:57AM

I also had that same privilege to work for a different KB as a painter. I did painting on both the JRS home and the Blix house. One day while I was scraping paint on JRS's house, a job that is not only quite dirty but also causes a lot of paint chips to fall into your eyes since no productive gear was a thing with KB's. JRS stepped out of his house and scolded me because I had failed to somehow prevent the paint chips from falling into his flower beds. "That paint has lead in it and that will kill my plants" Not that lead paint could be harmful to you or your eyes. Actually that was the only time JRS said a single word to me outside of a service.

Posted by: fool me twice
Date: March 24, 2019 05:17AM

I, along with everyone else, was told early on not try to speak to JRS after a service or any other time. His time was considered too important for him to be bothered by just anyone. Honestly with him being the pastor of three churches (his choice by the way) and primary overseer of nearly a hundred, I get it that he needed to guard his time.That said you would be hard pressed to find many church pastors that think like that. My thoughts about it now are that he could not wear that mask 24/7 and had no desire to be bothered by his cult members. The red flags were many and we did see them it's just that we were indeed blinded. It would be interesting to know if there is even one former TLWF member did not have at least one, or several, family members that saw those red flags from the beginning. I sure did!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2021 10:12PM by changedagain.

Changedagain wrote:

And yet, some will live out their lives convinced that 'The Apostle' spoke a "word from God," was laying the foundation for the Kingdom age, and was motivated by a consuming love for God's people. Those who had personal encounters with him as lowly 'sheep,' however, tended to think otherwise. A couple posts from FoolMeTwice...suggests that who he presented himself to be behind the pulpit was not in alignment with the way he conducted himself behind the scenes--a trait not uncommon among charismatic leaders, of course:

******************************

Absolutely true, Changed. I, too, believed all of those things for many years, even after leaving the cult. And finally, I had to begin dealing with my own cognitive dissonance. These are the things that I was told to believe about JRS, and so even when his actions, words and manner of relating to me didn't match these beliefs about him, I clung more desparately to those beliefs. I finally had to throw them away in the trash, like the tapes and CDs in order to begin the journey back to myself.

And Fool Me Twice, such good points. Thank you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2021 11:35PM by Reepicheep.

Reep wrote:
These are the things that I was told to believe about JRS, and so even when his actions, words and manner of relating to me didn't match these beliefs about him, I clung more desperately to those beliefs.

Yes, I did the same thing. It took me a very long time to realize that these people I was exalting were basically self-absorbed assholes. Or as my Mom put it, the first time I mentioned to her how the organization functioned: "You're in a cult!" Twenty years later I realized she was correct.

fool me twice wrote:
The red flags were many and we did see them it's just that we were indeed blinded.

True
Speaking of red flags, below is a post by 'that little red flag', regarding one of her lovely experiences in TLWF.
Note: APCO refers to Apostolic Company, at times confused with ALCO (Alcoholic Company):

Posted by: that little red flag
Date: November 28, 2018 10:19PM

I haven't been around at the local SD church for almost 5 years, but they had the apartment there (the Taco Shell). At some point I was involved in cleaning and set up for 2 - 3 years, and involved in getting all the new furniture and decor at one time. One of the times, years ago before the remodel, was so ridiculous. Someone from APCO directed us on a certain supposed decor that G & M liked. I spent weeks shopping and pimping the whole place out based on the input of what they would like. As soon as they arrived they made it know that they hated the decor, and that it wasn't their style at all. Long story short, come Monday after they had left, I was directed to gather and repackage everything, even if it had been used and return it all for a refund. It took weeks/months to return items, and get all the new stuff that they now claimed to adore. I can remember staying up til 2 and 3 in the morning trying to get the apartment ready for them, eyes half closed at the end of the night (uh, morning) as I searched for any amount of dust that might have settled during the evening. No spiders, no footprints on the rug, windows washed and then splashed by the kids in the pool, blah, blah, blah - all for the King and Queen. Oh, and then off to work by 7:00 am.

Reep wrote:
I, too, believed all of those things for many years, even after leaving the cult. And finally, I had to begin dealing with my own cognitive dissonance.

Yes, the vision of the Kingdom John supposedly had back in '72, is a big one. Many life decisions were heavily influenced by that "vision." Of course, there was never an acknowledgement by a TLWF authority to the congregation that the story was bogus--at least not that I am aware of.

Posted by: Saw enough
Date: November 17, 2016 01:16PM

Gary has persisted in promoting the vision JRS allegedly had in 1972 seeing 7 years into the Kingdom, even though one of the Blix girls at that time told Gary and Marilyn that she had been with John Stevens that entire day. This was common knowledge among the Living Word Building gossips. It was bad enough that John felt the need to cover for his day-long disappearance with a fantastic story about his vision and being caught up in the spirit so that he lost all track of time. But for Gary and Marilyn to continue to peddle the vision as a selling point for how they are the fulfillment of that prophetic community seems cynical and horrific.

I haven't opened a Bible for a very long time, but there are still a few scriptures that I hold dear to my heart, and can accurately quote. Like this one:
"Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none. My worldwide ministry hasn't taken off yet."
-Acts 3:6

that little red flag wrote:
Long story short, come Monday after they had left, I was directed to gather and repackage everything, even if it had been used and return it all for a refund.

Well, knowing what we know now, I think your response to this directive should have been: "I don't want your shit on my calendar!" :)

Posted by: I_woke_up
Date: September 07, 2018 06:08PM

Oh, I forgot to add.. During all this.. when planning a dinner out with the lead pastors of Shiloh, my husband was going to send the pastor’s wife a meeting request and she told him, “I don’t want your shit on my calendar.”

Posted by: that little red flag
Date: November 28, 2018 10:19PM

I haven't been around at the local SD church for almost 5 years, but they had the apartment there (the Taco Shell). At some point I was involved in cleaning and set up for 2 - 3 years, and involved in getting all the new furniture and decor at one time. One of the times, years ago before the remodel, was so ridiculous. Someone from APCO directed us on a certain supposed decor that G & M liked. I spent weeks shopping and pimping the whole place out based on the input of what they would like. As soon as they arrived they made it know that they hated the decor, and that it wasn't their style at all. Long story short, come Monday after they had left, I was directed to gather and repackage everything, even if it had been used and return it all for a refund. It took weeks/months to return items, and get all the new stuff that they now claimed to adore. I can remember staying up til 2 and 3 in the morning trying to get the apartment ready for them, eyes half closed at the end of the night (uh, morning) as I searched for any amount of dust that might have settled during the evening. No spiders, no footprints on the rug, windows washed and then splashed by the kids in the pool, blah, blah, blah - all for the King and Queen. Oh, and then off to work by 7:00 am.

************************************

That is so ridiculous. Red Flag, I'm so sorry that you were put through all that. Something similar happened in a double-decorating fiasco in the church kitchen where I was. What kind of people demand that level of perfection and being attuned to their particular taste? Ugh...cult leaders, that's who. Come to think of it, I once answered the call to prepare G&M's quarters before a feast. Well, the outside anyway. I was the only one who showed up. Knocked myself out trying to make it special. Like you, drove home (an hour drive) late at night and up early for my job. Also, someone wanted to buy flowers for the front porch. A few people shared the cost, but we were told not to put our names on the card, because we shouldn't try to get credit for doing something nice. I heard Marilyn saying to someone who was not involved, "I know you did this."

In another completely unrelated incident, at some point a word came about God not giving brownie points. My husband and I just looked at each other like, "Why the hell would we keep doing all this sh*t, then?" Great minds think alike.

Reep wrote:
Also, someone wanted to buy flowers for the front porch. A few people shared the cost, but we were told not to put our names on the card, because we shouldn't try to get credit for doing something nice.

Hi Marilyn,
Since I know I will not receive brownie points for sharing in the cost, I decided to not contribute.
Sincerely,
You-Know-Who

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reep wrote:
> Also, someone wanted to buy flowers for the
> front porch. A few people shared the cost, but we
> were told not to put our names on the card,
> because we shouldn't try to get credit for doing
> something nice.
>
> Hi Marilyn,
> Since I know I will not receive brownie points for
> sharing in the cost, I decided to not contribute.
> Sincerely,
> You-Know-Who

Lol! Just think, I could have saved all that energy, time and money. That way, someone else could have gotten all the credit for doing nothing. ; )