At least rick holbrook fathered no children. Is this correct?

My wife and I received horrible ministry when she had a miscarriage early in our marriage. I shared this in a post acouple years ago. My wife and i were talking about it this morning. We didn't see much focus from leadership on affection and nurturing towards babies. Maybe the seeds of hurt and misery were implanted earlier than we thought towards our children from these cult leaders that were driven by a horribly misguided sex drive that burned out of them a natural God given love for children.

typer Wrote:
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> At least rick holbrook fathered no children. Is
> this correct?

No. He has a daughter with wife #3 and a son with wife #4.

I hope for lots of love for them in their navigation through life.

typer Wrote:
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> In relating to these reposts on page 1171 I
> continue to remember how wonderful Donna Hargrave
> was.

Yes, Donna was fun, caring and a breath of fresh air during a time period when people were critiqued by how much they sacrificed (worked, prayed, donated) for "The Apostle to the Kingdom." She was consistently kind...unlike the one who usurped her husband (hint: Lamp of Israel).

Note: I think I had made it clear in prior posts that many years ago I switched my allegiance from the Lamp of Israel to the Lamp from Ikea. Never regretted that decision.

For something that was advertised as the 'cutting edge of Christianity', it is still shocking how little of the DIVINE there was in it, considering the level of damage done to people's lives.

We were definitely distracted from this carnage by having our 'ears tickled' by a mesmerizing 'word' that was contradictory to the lifestyle of the vessel(s) who delivered it.

Caveat emptor.

Yes, kBOY.

October 2018 posts continued:

Posted by: larry bobo
Date: October 22, 2018 04:30PM

As far as the removal of Rick, I would also keep a close eye on Gary. Rick did not make himself an overseer, Gary and Marilyn did. That was in spite of Rick’s track record. If I was hearing stories about Rick out in Palmer Lake and I’m sure Gary was familiar with what was going on with his own step-son, since he was the one personally disciplining him.

Posted by: Lifeontheotherside
Date: October 22, 2018 06:14PM

I agree with you Larry. I have been watching all that has been going on recently with Rick. I have watched it before. I wished in the past that “THIS WOULD BE IT!” Accountability and truth. It never was and sadly don’t think it will be now. I too think that Gary needs to take full responsibility for all that has gone on. COME ON! There is no way he couldn’t have known.
I have been slightly hopeful that this could be it but unfortunately I am looking to see how in the heck they will still continue to spin it. :(


Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: October 22, 2018 06:24PM

I too agree with Larry. The thing is, I think it goes much deeper than Gary knowing what is going on and begs the question of why he would allow it unless he was also in the fray. Sex, Money, and Power---they go together. To think that Gary and Marilyn only exhibited two of these is naïve at best. Where there is smoke there is fire. Rick is a scapegoat that is guilty----how convenient for the skeletons in Gary's closet.

Posted by: Lifeontheotherside
Date: October 22, 2018 06:34PM

So true. I do believe all of it is “rotten “ . Marilyn, Gary and JRS ... the whole basis of this fellowship has been SO FLAWED. I really don’t see how it can be redeemed with such a shady foundation.

Posted by: Onion
Date: October 22, 2018 07:52PM

There will be proof that Gary knew what was going on with Rick - and probably a lot of other people knew, including Matt Walkoe.

I have talked to people who were directly asked by Marilyn to destroy a letter written about Rick and never speak of it again because they "are family." Many times people had the foresight to keep copies of their communications - dated and kept intact - where the leadership was told in detail about Rick's sexual assaults and included information about the people surrounding Rick that seemed to endorse his conduct (including Scott and probably Steve and probably others).

Let exposure continue until complete.

Posted by: puddington
Date: October 24, 2018 07:01AM

I’ve recently talked with several current LW members who are encouraged about what is happening at TLWF. They are pointing out to me that Gary is demonstrating total integrity by requesting the 360 degree evaluation letters from congregants.

And then it dawned on me. Everything written in those letters he already knew about. He had to. Knowing how everything is run by G&M, he had to be following the reports about Rick. But by collecting feedback letters, he could play this charade of fake shock and surprise. And then he could issue a public statement like “gosh, we had no idea this was going on”. It is a clever way to cover his butt and create a condition of “plausible deniability”.

October 2018 posts continued:

Posted by: Cloudwatcher
Date: October 24, 2018 11:23AM

It doesn't matter to any of TLWF who did what because Gary represents God. He can say what he wants when he wants--do what he wants when he wants with impunity. He has layers protecting him--because you do not question God--ever.

It is doubtful that anyone left will escape that place now. Gary has it covered. I once had a phone conversation with RRMOderator. He told me that TLWF was the worst case scenario and that the odds of getting out were slim. It was a tough pill to swallow with family on the inside, but now I see how true that statement is --they will not use their God-given mind and reason or anything that is rational to decide on these matters. It is sad sad sad. Some of the most intelligent, capable and beautiful people --- captured in a moment long ago--that was it.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: October 24, 2018 12:25PM

I guess TLWF is special after all...as a worst case scenario cult.
Wow, that's interesting and sad.

Posted by: kBOY ()
Date: October 24, 2018 12:33PM

As interesting as all these revelations are, there is no getting around the sick feeling one is left with in hearing about them. It does fill in some important details as to the leverage Rick has held over Marilyn from the start; first the affair with JRS and then with Gary.

When you couple all these anecdotes with the early history of JRS documented in the Woodrow Nichols expose, you have a pot that was poisoned from the start. No matter how glorious the 'word' extrapolated from the scriptures, it will never be enough to offset the actions of lives lived in contradiction to it.

Posted by: puddington
Date: October 25, 2018 08:34AM

And now Gary is threatening to sue those that discuss any of this. As invasion of privacy.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: October 25, 2018 09:15AM

kBOY Wrote:

> In today's climate of exposure of things long
> hidden, they are definitely on the run and headed
> for the cliff they always thought they could keep
> at a safe distance.

If Gary and Matt were not aware of this predatory behavior taking place in their midst for over 30 years, than they should go down as the least perceptive 'prophets of God' in church history. A bit of hyperbole here, but not too far off the mark.
To those being threatened--do what is right, not what you're being told to do.
I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the right to privacy does not exist if you've engaged in criminal behavior. Covering up sexual abuse would fit into that category. Even in this Trump era, I think that should be the case. Well, let's hope so. Things certainly have changed (not for the better).

Posted by: changedagain
Date: October 25, 2018 09:36AM

Are those who sought counseling due to Rick's transgressions not wanting the nature of their complaint(s) against him being exposed?
Or is the ministries that received this 'confession' not wanting people to be aware of what information they were privy to all these years?
What is the intent of this 'clergy/penitent privilege?'
Is it really meant to shield the ministry from charges of wrongdoing (covering up abuse), under the guise of protecting those who had the courage to speak up about a predator?
It seems like this 'privilege' is being used for an unintended purpose. Once again, something being twisted by TLWF leadership...it shouldn't be surprising after 65+ years.

Posted by: fromsouthchicago
Date: October 25, 2018 09:46AM

I’m not sure this has been true for everyone in my extended family, but I know that for those in my immediate family and for me Marilyn, CLW and TLWF was a side show, something akin to a traveling carnival. I didn’t take anything that Marilyn said or did seriously. To me Marilyn as a con-artist and a fraud as well as a textbook example of a sociopath. So I knowing what she was and I didn't want anything to do with her or the CLW.

Carnivals and side shows may take your money, but they're transient and the harm that they do is short lived. They don't take people's lives away from them ... for years and in some cases, decades. As someone who's related to two of the people who have done so much harm, I really don't know what to say. But I shall look for opportunities to do what I can to help.