Posted by: larry bobo
Date: May 15, 2019 11:55AM


" . . . everyone can see they needed to be questioned – e.g. the kingdom dawning in 1979, shepherding and designated relationships, false words from God, failed prophesies, and the cover up of sexual relationships between pastors and congregants – including John."

When you boil a frog slowly, it is not aware of what is taking place.

Most of us who were involved for decades, but were not in leadership roles, gradually accepted the list above, with the exception of the most egregious offenses, which were carefully concealed from our sight.  Even speaking of them openly was not something done in common.  Hence, we found ourselves eventually being served up for the benefit of a few, to be consumed and then cast aside.

I do know that John would have the women that lived in the Blix House, when it was first opened as a communal home, take Martha out to the market, or for ice cream... primarily to give him time alone.

Going back in time...an awkward conversation:
The Apostle: I want you to take Martha out for ice cream.
Blix woman: O.K. But I did that a couple hours ago.
The Apostle: I know. I need more time to work on my sermon.
Blix woman: Do you want me take Marilyn out for ice cream, too?
John: What?

The brazen lack of integrity with both JRS and G&M is still a bit shocking, considering the fact that most of the sheeple would never consider acting this way.

Beware of those who talk a big talk but are unwilling to walk it out.

kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The brazen lack of integrity with both JRS and G&M
> is still a bit shocking, considering the fact that
> most of the sheeple would never consider acting
> this way.

True, kBOY.

Post by dbc from November of 2018:

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: dbc ()
Date: November 02, 2018 08:28PM

Let’s not forget the origins of this group. It was meant to be the restoration of apostolic authority. Inherent in that is a lack of accountability. The only check on abuse in the beginning was created by relationships with other groups. John Stevens’last contact with Bob Mumford whose teachings and organization also reflected submission to shepherding authority meant the beginning of an era when John was surrounded by people who only agreed with him. The finances and church structures also reflected this new testament model meaning local church corporations were not autonomous but responsive the the flow of authority - but the money flowed the other way. Also there was a deliberate decision to charge for the tapes. To pay five dollars in the 1970s for a cassette tape was outrageous. JOHN boasted that the church of the living word was the greatest purchaser of blank tapes in Southern California. That was a lot of money.

After John died, with the reorganization to Hargrave family ministries (now Hargrave Ministires) it seemed like everything was on steroids. The upward flow. Designated relationships. Authority with no accountability. As local churches folded their assets were sold and the money returned to the word for the world fund. Plus tithes plus special offerings for apostolic travel.

Unless the DNA changes there will be no substantive changes at all. And there are no signs of the DNA changing. The seeds of what we’re seeing now were there from the very beginning. I’m sure no one intended it to happen, but when the crystal forms and grows it follows the pattern set out by the basic molecular structure. That’s why “you will know them by their fruit.” The fruit is quite apparent now. It would seem the only reasonable response is to walk away.

Unfortunately, those who post in this forum give testimony to the fact that it’s difficult to leave this group without being damaged goods. There will be a whole lot of hurting going on for quite a while.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Post by dbc from November of 2018:
>
> Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John
> Robert Stevens
> Posted by: dbc ()
> Date: November 02, 2018 08:28PM
>
> Let’s not forget the origins of this group. It was
> meant to be the restoration of apostolic
> authority. Inherent in that is a lack of
> accountability. The only check on abuse in the
> beginning was created by relationships with other
> groups. John Stevens’last contact with Bob
> Mumford whose teachings and organization also
> reflected submission to shepherding authority
> meant the beginning of an era when John was
> surrounded by people who only agreed with him. The
> finances and church structures also reflected this
> new testament model meaning local church
> corporations were not autonomous but responsive
> the the flow of authority - but the money flowed
> the other way. Also there was a deliberate
> decision to charge for the tapes. To pay five
> dollars in the 1970s for a cassette tape was
> outrageous. JOHN boasted that the church of the
> living word was the greatest purchaser of blank
> tapes in Southern California. That was a lot of
> money.
>
> After John died, with the reorganization to
> Hargrave family ministries (now Hargrave
> Ministires) it seemed like everything was on
> steroids. The upward flow. Designated
> relationships. Authority with no accountability.
> As local churches folded their assets were sold
> and the money returned to the word for the world
> fund. Plus tithes plus special offerings for
> apostolic travel.
>
> Unless the DNA changes there will be no
> substantive changes at all. And there are no signs
> of the DNA changing. The seeds of what we’re
> seeing now were there from the very beginning. I’m
> sure no one intended it to happen, but when the
> crystal forms and grows it follows the pattern set
> out by the basic molecular structure. That’s why
> “you will know them by their fruit.” The fruit is
> quite apparent now. It would seem the only
> reasonable response is to walk away.
>
> Unfortunately, those who post in this forum give
> testimony to the fact that it’s difficult to leave
> this group without being damaged goods. There will
> be a whole lot of hurting going on for quite a
> while.

Dbc, I'm so glad that Changed re-posted this. You have a lot of insight about the machinations of TLWF over a long period of time. Why couldn't we see what was happening with the money (and our lives) way back when? It's plain as day in hindsight. Quite simply, we trusted the man JRS. We believed that he was sincere even when we sometimes could and should have questioned that assumption. Yes, so many people hurting for so many years. : (

Changed, you find great posts that really need to be seen again. Thanks! BTW, you posted this at 8:28am and dbc posted at 8:28 pm. Do you plan these odd coincidences?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2020 02:38AM by Reepicheep.

Hey, I didn't even notice that (for real). I do like going back in time, and reposting comments that I barely recall reading the first time around. There's been a lot of involvement in this forum through the years from ex-members, offering a great deal of insight into how cult leaders operate. Hopefully, it will serve as a preventative measure to keep people from being lured into authoritarian organizations such as TLWF/Hargrave ministries...or if they're already in one, help them see it and muster the courage to get the hell out.

dbc wrote:
As local churches folded their assets were sold and the money returned to the word for the world fund. Plus tithes plus special offerings for apostolic travel.

I wouldn't be surprised if I gave money for his 1972 trip to Holy Jim Canyon (aka Horny John Canyon), where he allegedly traveled seven years into the future, witnessing the birth of the Kingdom. Yes, like many adherents, I was very gullible.

From November of 2015:

Posted by: FCSLC
Date: November 08, 2015 11:07AM

kBOY wrote in part:

“One must remember the culture of fear upon which this fellowship was based. Holy Jim Canyon was the pivotal moment that set the tone from the beginning. We were instructed to believe in a god that would “kill us for our withdrawal”.

I saw, within the last two years, this sentiment being repeated amongst some of the faithful (by those into their 50’s & 60’s) as a clarion call to rouse them out of their tired doctrine and lives. It was sad. But that overriding fear, however it has been spun, is foundational in the thinking of those who signed up back in the JRS era, and why it is so hard for them to leave today.”