Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
NancyB
()
Date: January 27, 2020 06:01AM
changedagain reposted On January 22, 2020 01:07AM Re:The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
a valuable post from Invisible ()
Date: October 16, 2013 12:34PM
---- ---------------------------------------------------
> A post by 'Invisible' from October of 2013:
>
> Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John
> Robert Stevens
> Posted by: Invisible ()
> Date: October 16, 2013 12:34PM
>
> Around 1971 we began receiving phone calls at our
> home at any hour of the night - to pray for John
> Stevens, because he was under demonic spiritual
> attack by his wife Martha. We were told at that
> time, not to say anything to anyone about this,
> because only certain ones were being contacted to
> pray for John, The idea was conveyed to us that
> the church was not mature enough to handle the
> knowledge of the kind of assault that was taking
> place against John by his wife, n his own house.
>
> I don't remember us being woken up more than about
> three or four times between 1 and 3 O'clock in the
> morning, over a period of a few months' time. We
> were told that Martha was verbally attacking John.
> It was presented to us as if Martha was being
> aggressively evil toward John and John was
> suffering. However, we were never told what Martha
> was upset about it. Nor did we think to ask, we were
> just concerned about the well being of John.
>
> I do not know how many people were being contacted
> like this and for this purpose but it was conveyed
> to us, that there were others also being called -
> to pray and be a support for John against Martha.
> Every time John and Martha were having a major
> argument between them during that period of time,
> we were called - with a one-sided story about what
> Martha was doing against John.
>
> Evidently John and Martha had problems in their
> relationship with one another but the real problem
> they had, I believe was, that other people were in
> their personal business and those people were at
> work, taking sides together and creating a support
> for John Steven's against his wife and they were
> taking steps to influence many other people
> against Martha, which worked to undermine the
> marriage and relationship John and Martha had as
> husband and wife.
>
> Whether John invited them into his & Martha's
> personal life or whether they invited themselves
> into his & Martha's personal life, I don't know
> but one thing is for sure, he went along with the
> sympathy and the support he was receiving for
> himself against his wife, from those who were
> closest to him, who were outside of his own
> family.
>
> This kind of activity I believe led to it later
> being said (in secret) that Martha was a Nephilim.
> Martha was the first person in the church to be
> condemned, as if she were a powerful demonic
> spirit and spiritual force set to destroy her
> husband in the privacy of their own home, as a man
> of God.
>
> After these first phone calls' we received in
> 1971, and about 9 years later, in 1980, Martha
> divorced John.
>
> And I heard many, many, years later that one of
> Steven's family members had said, that Martha
> was still confessing her love for John, long after
> John had died, even until Martha died.
Kboy replied, "Martha was probably tired of JRS and Marilyn 'making eyes' at one another, and all the time they were spending together ". I think most of us would agree.
Let's us not forget that JRS was a narcissist by definition. In addition to both of those things, JRS was an alcoholic.
Alcoholism is a disease that tears apart from family relationships. I spent a lot of time in ALANON learning about things that I was not prepared to live with when living with a person who had the disease, let alone intercede for the "apostle to usher in the kingdom" - Marth was not prepared for all that burden either.
Here are some points to consider why Martha, no doubt, nagged him. She probably went ballroom dancing instead of ALNON. I know that I did not know how to handle an alcoholic husband, either. Neither did the right-hand men of the apostle. ( Where was the discernment and revelation that JRS needed intervention?)
I think this article link below would have been helpful to us decades ago. It was all so twisted.
A number of us do know that JRS was an alcoholic for a fact.
In the early '80s, Brenda and John put together marriage classes. I had seen JRS drunk numerous times before Brenda stated, "we are all children of an alcoholic." ( meaning JRS) That meant we had healing to do.
None of us, including Martha, knew how to communicate with JRS (or anyone who puts booze before those who love and trust him) about the consequences of his behaviors.
We were all co-dependent*. But, that does not mean we were to blame. We are however responsible for our reactions. I'm only encouraging us to get educated on alcoholism to help us re-think the typical responses we had when those "phone calls came" or the claim that Martha was a Neph and how communicating with an alcoholic plays out.
*I hate the word co-dependent. When "my alcoholic" finally went to AA once only because the state forced him to go. He came home from that meeting to smugly inform me, " I learned that I have a disease. You are co-dependent and that makes you sicker than I am." ( That is so twisted - not talking self-responsibility. JRS did not take responsibility either, do you think?)
I shared this in hopes that no one feels any self-condemnation over being co-dependent or alcoholic, but to get some appropriate therapy from the aftermath of what we survived.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2020 06:07AM by NancyB.
a valuable post from Invisible ()
Date: October 16, 2013 12:34PM
---- ---------------------------------------------------
> A post by 'Invisible' from October of 2013:
>
> Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John
> Robert Stevens
> Posted by: Invisible ()
> Date: October 16, 2013 12:34PM
>
> Around 1971 we began receiving phone calls at our
> home at any hour of the night - to pray for John
> Stevens, because he was under demonic spiritual
> attack by his wife Martha. We were told at that
> time, not to say anything to anyone about this,
> because only certain ones were being contacted to
> pray for John, The idea was conveyed to us that
> the church was not mature enough to handle the
> knowledge of the kind of assault that was taking
> place against John by his wife, n his own house.
>
> I don't remember us being woken up more than about
> three or four times between 1 and 3 O'clock in the
> morning, over a period of a few months' time. We
> were told that Martha was verbally attacking John.
> It was presented to us as if Martha was being
> aggressively evil toward John and John was
> suffering. However, we were never told what Martha
> was upset about it. Nor did we think to ask, we were
> just concerned about the well being of John.
>
> I do not know how many people were being contacted
> like this and for this purpose but it was conveyed
> to us, that there were others also being called -
> to pray and be a support for John against Martha.
> Every time John and Martha were having a major
> argument between them during that period of time,
> we were called - with a one-sided story about what
> Martha was doing against John.
>
> Evidently John and Martha had problems in their
> relationship with one another but the real problem
> they had, I believe was, that other people were in
> their personal business and those people were at
> work, taking sides together and creating a support
> for John Steven's against his wife and they were
> taking steps to influence many other people
> against Martha, which worked to undermine the
> marriage and relationship John and Martha had as
> husband and wife.
>
> Whether John invited them into his & Martha's
> personal life or whether they invited themselves
> into his & Martha's personal life, I don't know
> but one thing is for sure, he went along with the
> sympathy and the support he was receiving for
> himself against his wife, from those who were
> closest to him, who were outside of his own
> family.
>
> This kind of activity I believe led to it later
> being said (in secret) that Martha was a Nephilim.
> Martha was the first person in the church to be
> condemned, as if she were a powerful demonic
> spirit and spiritual force set to destroy her
> husband in the privacy of their own home, as a man
> of God.
>
> After these first phone calls' we received in
> 1971, and about 9 years later, in 1980, Martha
> divorced John.
>
> And I heard many, many, years later that one of
> Steven's family members had said, that Martha
> was still confessing her love for John, long after
> John had died, even until Martha died.
Kboy replied, "Martha was probably tired of JRS and Marilyn 'making eyes' at one another, and all the time they were spending together ". I think most of us would agree.
Let's us not forget that JRS was a narcissist by definition. In addition to both of those things, JRS was an alcoholic.
Alcoholism is a disease that tears apart from family relationships. I spent a lot of time in ALANON learning about things that I was not prepared to live with when living with a person who had the disease, let alone intercede for the "apostle to usher in the kingdom" - Marth was not prepared for all that burden either.
Here are some points to consider why Martha, no doubt, nagged him. She probably went ballroom dancing instead of ALNON. I know that I did not know how to handle an alcoholic husband, either. Neither did the right-hand men of the apostle. ( Where was the discernment and revelation that JRS needed intervention?)
I think this article link below would have been helpful to us decades ago. It was all so twisted.
A number of us do know that JRS was an alcoholic for a fact.
In the early '80s, Brenda and John put together marriage classes. I had seen JRS drunk numerous times before Brenda stated, "we are all children of an alcoholic." ( meaning JRS) That meant we had healing to do.
Quote
ALANON Dilemma of the Alcoholic Marriage
'If he is drinking, her constant protective watchful? ness makes it easy for him to sidestep getting help. He has no incentive to get sober. She convinces herself that she’s doing her very best for him; she hasn’t learned, as she would in Al?Anon, that shielding him from the consequences of his drinking only prolongs its course.'.
When he’s drunk, her reaction is to reproach him for his behavior, and that’s the very worst time to attempt to communicate with him. In fact, it can’t be done without triggering a family war.
Until she learns what is wrong with her attitude and how to change herself so he will be forced to face his responsibilities, the situation isn’t likely to improve...'
None of us, including Martha, knew how to communicate with JRS (or anyone who puts booze before those who love and trust him) about the consequences of his behaviors.
We were all co-dependent*. But, that does not mean we were to blame. We are however responsible for our reactions. I'm only encouraging us to get educated on alcoholism to help us re-think the typical responses we had when those "phone calls came" or the claim that Martha was a Neph and how communicating with an alcoholic plays out.
*I hate the word co-dependent. When "my alcoholic" finally went to AA once only because the state forced him to go. He came home from that meeting to smugly inform me, " I learned that I have a disease. You are co-dependent and that makes you sicker than I am." ( That is so twisted - not talking self-responsibility. JRS did not take responsibility either, do you think?)
I shared this in hopes that no one feels any self-condemnation over being co-dependent or alcoholic, but to get some appropriate therapy from the aftermath of what we survived.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2020 06:07AM by NancyB.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
NancyB
()
Date: January 27, 2020 06:43AM
Welcome Mined
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
kBOY
()
Date: January 27, 2020 08:24AM
N A N C Y b
As sad as all this is, it is completely understandable that the personal backside life of JRS had already demonstrated an ability to hide and justify not only substance abuse, but womanizing and financial misconduct as well.
The compartmentalization allowed most of this to be hidden from the 'unwashed masses' who supplied the upward flow, while JRS continued the charade by tickling our ears with flowerly words of being God's gift to the world, until we slowly realized we were not.
As sad as all this is, it is completely understandable that the personal backside life of JRS had already demonstrated an ability to hide and justify not only substance abuse, but womanizing and financial misconduct as well.
The compartmentalization allowed most of this to be hidden from the 'unwashed masses' who supplied the upward flow, while JRS continued the charade by tickling our ears with flowerly words of being God's gift to the world, until we slowly realized we were not.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: January 28, 2020 06:34AM
kBOY wrote:
The compartmentalization allowed most of this to be hidden from the 'unwashed masses' who supplied the upward flow, while JRS continued the charade by tickling our ears with flowerly words of being God's gift to the world, until we slowly realized we were not.
Yes
Excerpt of a post by 4generation approx three months ago:
Posted by: 4generation
Date: October 21, 2019
Hello everyone,
I will make a brief personal presentation, as I prefer to remain anonymous for now. But I can say that I am a young man who was born within TLWF here in Brazil.
I have been following this forum for many years and I can say that many things that have been said here are true and that all the pastors mentioned here and involved in the accusations also follow this forum.
Because of this, I thought it appropriate to write here to speak directly to TLWF's senior leadership. There would be a lot to talk about, but I will try to write more later.
The damage this leadership has done to young people is immeasurable, but the worst of all is that the fellowship leaders (haworths, esteves, hargraves, hoolbroks) never retract or acknowledge their personal mistakes.
We can keep talking for years about John's mistakes and how there were idolatry or wrong doctrines since the inception, but none of this is ever comparable to the system of control and abuse of people that was created, developed and manipulated by Gary & Marylin and his APCO throughout the fellowship.
What needs to be understood, at least for the older generation, is that what was called "counseling" was never a spiritual counseling or covering, but an oppressive, authoritarian system that removed the right to free will from a whole generation who have been taught from the womb to live to "create life for spiritual parents."
This is the most cruel, satanic, and perverse teaching there could be in any kind of "cult". And after all that, those who called themselves Christ in the flesh did not repent, did not let go of power, divide the congregation, and did not confess the truth. They just hide and are waiting for the right moment to return and have their ministries restored.
One thing I will address to you Gary, Silas and others. There is no restoration without confession. There is no restoration without repair. There is no restoration without the truth being exposed. So far we have not seen any of this, and the window of opportunity for this is closed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 06:35AM by changedagain.
The compartmentalization allowed most of this to be hidden from the 'unwashed masses' who supplied the upward flow, while JRS continued the charade by tickling our ears with flowerly words of being God's gift to the world, until we slowly realized we were not.
Yes
Excerpt of a post by 4generation approx three months ago:
Posted by: 4generation
Date: October 21, 2019
Hello everyone,
I will make a brief personal presentation, as I prefer to remain anonymous for now. But I can say that I am a young man who was born within TLWF here in Brazil.
I have been following this forum for many years and I can say that many things that have been said here are true and that all the pastors mentioned here and involved in the accusations also follow this forum.
Because of this, I thought it appropriate to write here to speak directly to TLWF's senior leadership. There would be a lot to talk about, but I will try to write more later.
The damage this leadership has done to young people is immeasurable, but the worst of all is that the fellowship leaders (haworths, esteves, hargraves, hoolbroks) never retract or acknowledge their personal mistakes.
We can keep talking for years about John's mistakes and how there were idolatry or wrong doctrines since the inception, but none of this is ever comparable to the system of control and abuse of people that was created, developed and manipulated by Gary & Marylin and his APCO throughout the fellowship.
What needs to be understood, at least for the older generation, is that what was called "counseling" was never a spiritual counseling or covering, but an oppressive, authoritarian system that removed the right to free will from a whole generation who have been taught from the womb to live to "create life for spiritual parents."
This is the most cruel, satanic, and perverse teaching there could be in any kind of "cult". And after all that, those who called themselves Christ in the flesh did not repent, did not let go of power, divide the congregation, and did not confess the truth. They just hide and are waiting for the right moment to return and have their ministries restored.
One thing I will address to you Gary, Silas and others. There is no restoration without confession. There is no restoration without repair. There is no restoration without the truth being exposed. So far we have not seen any of this, and the window of opportunity for this is closed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 06:35AM by changedagain.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
kBOY
()
Date: January 28, 2020 06:57AM
C H A N G E D
W O W. What makes this all the more discouraging is that this post occurred almost one year from the date of Shalom's disclosures on Facebook (10/25/18).
The idea of ANY of these characters ever having their 'ministry' restored is like allowing a pedophile to work in the nursery. Their track-records as shepherds speak volumes against having any credibility in these areas.
If any re-entry were to ever occur they should immediately be placed at the end of the line and at the bottom of any totem pole, IF they could pass the background check.
That might be a problem . . .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 06:58AM by kBOY.
W O W. What makes this all the more discouraging is that this post occurred almost one year from the date of Shalom's disclosures on Facebook (10/25/18).
The idea of ANY of these characters ever having their 'ministry' restored is like allowing a pedophile to work in the nursery. Their track-records as shepherds speak volumes against having any credibility in these areas.
If any re-entry were to ever occur they should immediately be placed at the end of the line and at the bottom of any totem pole, IF they could pass the background check.
That might be a problem . . .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 06:58AM by kBOY.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
PowerTrip
()
Date: January 29, 2020 04:49AM
Hi guys,
Time has passed since my last post when I had the courage to say that what I have suffered when I was young during my time at TLWF was abuse. I feel like I aged 5 years and I am honestly not want to talk about me but I know some people might have questions. Yes, I was abused. I survived. I moved on. My motto was “they cannot win” I am going to survive and be someone that I would be proud in the long run. Nothing was easy and my body and mental health were taken to the limits many, many times but I survived. I am okay.
We were blindly following an alcoholic apostle (JRS) and all the toxic structure he left behind. I wish we could all see that 20-30 years ago! Honestly, I think that even today JRS would have to be impressed for his legacy and all the lives G&M and APCO were able to screw. Honestly, I was reading the posts about the cow tag earings. It was a COW but after decades of conditioning and listening to what was right and wrong, we never stood a chance guys. We were never meant to get out!
I was thinking about 4generation post from one year ago. Thank you so much for sharing it Changedagain!
{The damage this leadership has done to young people is immeasurable, but the worst of all is that the fellowship leaders (haworths, esteves, hargraves, hoolbroks) never retract or acknowledge their personal mistakes.}
And I am asking, to the 3rd and 4th generations. What can we do to help? What else we can do? Should we write our own version of a letter to our young self and say all the dangers of being in a cult? About TLW specific?
I was doing some research in order to write this post and I found out that cults rarely withstand a second generation and TLWF is on its 4th, 5th? Is that right?
{This is the most cruel, satanic, and perverse teaching there could be in any kind of "cult". And after all that, those who called themselves Christ in the flesh did not repent, did not let go of power, divide the congregation, and did not confess the truth. They just hide and are waiting for the right moment to return and have their ministries restored.}
The internet has its own way to keep everything private and not name names and I am literally just thinking about how can I help or how can we all help to prevent this same thing from happening again and again and again.
4generation is right. They are just waiting for the dust to settle. Unfortunately, we also supported years of financial aid and they can wait for the best moment.
We must find ways to stop TLW existence. I know this is redundant but remember I am only one month old to this site so give me some newbie credit!
Time has passed since my last post when I had the courage to say that what I have suffered when I was young during my time at TLWF was abuse. I feel like I aged 5 years and I am honestly not want to talk about me but I know some people might have questions. Yes, I was abused. I survived. I moved on. My motto was “they cannot win” I am going to survive and be someone that I would be proud in the long run. Nothing was easy and my body and mental health were taken to the limits many, many times but I survived. I am okay.
We were blindly following an alcoholic apostle (JRS) and all the toxic structure he left behind. I wish we could all see that 20-30 years ago! Honestly, I think that even today JRS would have to be impressed for his legacy and all the lives G&M and APCO were able to screw. Honestly, I was reading the posts about the cow tag earings. It was a COW but after decades of conditioning and listening to what was right and wrong, we never stood a chance guys. We were never meant to get out!
I was thinking about 4generation post from one year ago. Thank you so much for sharing it Changedagain!
{The damage this leadership has done to young people is immeasurable, but the worst of all is that the fellowship leaders (haworths, esteves, hargraves, hoolbroks) never retract or acknowledge their personal mistakes.}
And I am asking, to the 3rd and 4th generations. What can we do to help? What else we can do? Should we write our own version of a letter to our young self and say all the dangers of being in a cult? About TLW specific?
I was doing some research in order to write this post and I found out that cults rarely withstand a second generation and TLWF is on its 4th, 5th? Is that right?
{This is the most cruel, satanic, and perverse teaching there could be in any kind of "cult". And after all that, those who called themselves Christ in the flesh did not repent, did not let go of power, divide the congregation, and did not confess the truth. They just hide and are waiting for the right moment to return and have their ministries restored.}
The internet has its own way to keep everything private and not name names and I am literally just thinking about how can I help or how can we all help to prevent this same thing from happening again and again and again.
4generation is right. They are just waiting for the dust to settle. Unfortunately, we also supported years of financial aid and they can wait for the best moment.
We must find ways to stop TLW existence. I know this is redundant but remember I am only one month old to this site so give me some newbie credit!
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: January 29, 2020 06:44AM
I know this is redundant but remember I am only one month old to this site so give me some newbie credit!
I give you credit, Powertrip. Your posts hit the mark (IMO). Welcome aboard!
I give you credit, Powertrip. Your posts hit the mark (IMO). Welcome aboard!
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
kBOY
()
Date: January 29, 2020 08:24AM
P O W E R t r i p
WELCOME. It sounds like your resume goes all the way back to the JRS-era, so, like many of us, you have observed quite a lot of water pass under the bridge.
The distinction between that era and the G&M reign were different but no less damaging. What made them both similar was the degree of deception perpetrated on the masses, and the stranglehold they were able to maintain upon those who worked closely with them in order to monitor any narrative used to cover abuses.
In spite of the death-blow wielded by Shalom, we may have to accept that there may be sparks of life still evident in a few locations for some time to come. We can take some comfort in the fact that since all the youth have fled, and along with that their tithes and energy, it is only a matter to time before old age and death slowly creep in to finish the job.
WELCOME. It sounds like your resume goes all the way back to the JRS-era, so, like many of us, you have observed quite a lot of water pass under the bridge.
The distinction between that era and the G&M reign were different but no less damaging. What made them both similar was the degree of deception perpetrated on the masses, and the stranglehold they were able to maintain upon those who worked closely with them in order to monitor any narrative used to cover abuses.
In spite of the death-blow wielded by Shalom, we may have to accept that there may be sparks of life still evident in a few locations for some time to come. We can take some comfort in the fact that since all the youth have fled, and along with that their tithes and energy, it is only a matter to time before old age and death slowly creep in to finish the job.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Reepicheep
()
Date: January 29, 2020 11:26AM
Quote
Posted by: PowerTrip
Date: January 28, 2020 01:49PM
Should we write our own version of a letter to our young self and say all the dangers of being in a cult? About TLW specific?
I would like to tell my young self to trust myself, not someone claiming to be an apostle to the Kingdom who heard directly from God. He and G&M used us all mercilessly. I doubt that it ever crossed their minds to repent for what they were doing to all the people they used.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: January 29, 2020 11:52PM
A post by 'lone.wolf' from December of 2018:
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: lone.wolf
Date: December 20, 2018 06:45AM
Update today from TLWF website regarding the independent investigation that will take place:
[www.thelivingword.org]
I wonder if they have made any headway with this independent investigation. Perhaps the independent investigators gave up because they couldn't find any evidence of wrongdoing...at least among the leadership.
/s
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: lone.wolf
Date: December 20, 2018 06:45AM
Update today from TLWF website regarding the independent investigation that will take place:
[www.thelivingword.org]
I wonder if they have made any headway with this independent investigation. Perhaps the independent investigators gave up because they couldn't find any evidence of wrongdoing...at least among the leadership.
/s
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