Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 01, 2019 07:50AM

Hi Reep, I'm enjoying reading older posts. Quote:
" I do remember JRS making that statement, changedagain. I also remember GH making the same statement. Both tended to attach themselves closely to the wealthiest members. In JRS' case, the one I was most aware of was John McKune from Yucaipa"

Mccune's name was mentioned. I had a great deal of respect for him and loved his family. Mc Cune would get jrs a new year from Detroit- all they had to do was to pick it up. I should be able to recall what mcCunes successful job was- no matter-
Here's a tid bit that I will guess few knew. John Mc Cune was a Washington boy. Grandma McCune lived to a ripe old age and was long time member of Christian Tabernacle. The McCunes visited Grandma McCune almost every year as I can recall as a child in the '50's.

In my opinion, jrs latched on to people who were credible then used them to promote himself. JRS like wise used credible young women to make some of the young men with pastors exemptions from the VN draft look credible as well.

I have a need to tell the world that the mother church in Washington was filled with good Christian people who watched JRS grow up before he was a cult leader. We trusted him - he duped us one phony word at a time. The vision for Shiloh was not what it ended up to be. If the old folks in Washington had a revelation of the future that facility I'm sure never would have been built.

I grieve so much for the lost of my first love of the word from those early days in the '50's. So as I read McCune's name I flashed backward. I'm on a kick about donations going for what they were supposed to go for- did not happen as was promised when the gorund for shiloh was broken

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: changedagain ()
Date: May 01, 2019 08:02AM

NancyB Wrote:

> I have a need to tell the world that the mother
> church in Washington was filled with good
> Christian people who watched JRS grow up before he
> was a cult leader. We trusted him - he duped us
> one phony word at a time. The vision for Shiloh
> was not what it ended up to be. If the old folks
> in Washington had a revelation of the future that
> facility I'm sure never would have been built.

Yes--if they had known how their donations were going to spent, I bet most of them would have withdrawn their support.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 01, 2019 08:21AM

Prettyboy, we must do lunch soon.
OMG! Fsharp- not heard that name is eons.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 01, 2019 08:47AM

kBOY Wrote:
> 40yearsin2016:
> Interesting anecdote. This confirms ONIONs
> account of both JRS and G&M being 'inebriated' as
> a lifestyle.

I've added my ditto to the 'inebriated". I often got to Anaheim service late due to work - oh yeah, i saw jrs so pickled as they got him out of the car. The bro said that "he was under such heavy assault."Smelled like booze to me.

But when he was in the pulpit he was so giddy with his kingdom proverbs. In 1967 my family and I were guests in his home- yowzer! he really poured down the Benedictine. I was a naive teen at the time. I saw him loaded in the upper room at shiloh. No one believed me- no one cared at the time including my father-in law. Such a relief to be ab le to say something and have other validate it after decades of being a full fledged Jezebel

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 01, 2019 09:31AM

Onion Wrote:
> I have been looking at a lot of the requirements
> for maintaining tax-exempt status and one
> principle that I am loving is that if an
> expenditure that seems to benefit those who are
> connected to, or paid by, the nonprofit is
> approved by the Board then all of the board
> members could liable for reimbursement and taxes.
> The way a board member (or anyone who has
> influence within the organization) shows they did
> not approve the spending is by having
> recorded/written evidence of that person's
> disagreement with the expenditure. Recusing
> oneself from voting or participating, or failing
> to attend the meeting where a decision is
> discussed, is NOT accepted as proof or a defense.
> If no dissent is recorded in the records, then the
> individuals are considered to have agreed.
> I would think there would be lawsuits against
> leadership who made decisions without allowing
> dissent or for cult mind control that prevented an
> ability to even have a difference of opinion if
> the IRS found against any individual for the many
> questionable expenditures that benefitted people
> and did not benefit the churches or their
> tax-exempt/religious purposes.
> Apparently, the best thing all of us have done is
> to publicly speak up. I would hope that those who
> are die-hard loyalists to the past will realize
> there is a requirement to speak out about
> wrongdoing to avoid being held responsible. Of
> course, the complete control exercised by various
> leaders will result in complete liability but that
> doesn't mean they will be the only ones culpable.
> Ponderings....

Thanks Onion! I love it! I've been obsessing about the tax exempt status thing for some time now. To me that is really big proof that the god of the walk was kind of short sighted.

I would think that even if papers documents were destroyed the IRS can piece together their records will a little help from those who will speak up. No one will end up with any tax exemptions - when the irs decides to audit tlw members in the process. I can imagine that our charitable donations to tlw could be scrutinized as not legit tax deductions.... not lawyer- I just have a Jez spirit of questioning if things are right or wrong.

I do know for fact that a donation by my late ex husband did NOT go to
Shiloh- it went for a pastors' wife's personal use. That is one tip of this fraud iceberg

Please forgive my snark - I'm only guessing with out documented facts. but, I will assume that irs will look at anyone's tax reports who stuck around with any connection to the cult. If you look at Jim and Tammy Fay Baker and their 700 club scandal and Bennie Hinn that may give a clue of investigations to come with out any one speaking a prophetic word.

It was frightening when I "escaped" alone with my children - leaving so many behind some of which were so smug about their place in the kingdom.

But now, I can only imagine how frightening it is when the dear loyalists who have hung in there to the bitter end of the cult begin to grasp the reality of all the fraud in the name of the kingdom of god. I would not want to be one left holding the bag.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 01, 2019 12:33PM

Sorry for hogging the posts tonight while I have internet. Please note I express my opinion not a word from god. When I research facts i give links. Sorry I do not have the tool to make my links clickable today.

Trying to catch up on reading here, I want to address the mandatory child or elder abuse abuse issue. I was an RN so I was required to take class after class after class on mandatory reporter. I made more than my fair share of reports. Some were founded and others got families help. The position is very awkward. In `963 it was only medical professionals who were required to report specifics was up to the law to be the judge. Around the early /89's the law included teachers and child care providers as mandatory reporters in a much long list.

Below I will quote the consequences for not reporting suspected abuse. ( There are other documents readily available to can help people identify signs that a child or elder is being abused- not included.)

I want to point out that even if a mandatory reporters SUPERVISOR tells you to NOT report something you question who still have to make a report. You are not the judge and jury. The investigators decide is found or not founded and if the report will be taken to court or not.

Here is link to a pdf of CA law on will shock some of you. []

It lists who is mandatory reporter. Its DOES included any one who services minor children along with dr, nurses, teachers, police, firemen, day care workers....

I hope everyone will read and absorb the following quote then draw your own conclusions about what when on the group we survived or in some cases are still involved.

gbacapv6 state of california
Liability for Failure to Make A Required Report
A mandated reporter who fails to make a required report of child abuse
is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail or by a
$1,000 fine orby both a fine and imprisonment. (P.C. 11166 (c)) If however,
death or great bodily injury happens to the child as a result of the abuse,

or if the mandated reporter willfully fails to report the abuse the mandated reporter is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by not more than one
year in a county jail, by a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000),
or by both. (P.C. 11166.01

(b)) He or she may also be found civilly liable for
damages,especially if the child-victim or another child is further victimized
because of the failure to report. (Landeros v. Flood (1976) 17 Cal.3d 399.)
If a mandated reporter conceals his or her failure to report abuse or
“severe” neglect, the failure to report is a continuing offense until the
failure is discovered by an agency specified in Section 11165.9. (P.C. 11166(c))

Greater Bay Area Child Abuse Prevention Council Coaliton

Responsibilities of Agencies
Employing Mandated Reporters
On and after January 1, 1985, with the exception
of child visitation monitors, persons entering employment which make them mandated reporters
must sign statements, provided and retained by
their employers, informing them that they are
mandated reporters and advising them of their
reporting responsibilities and of their confidentiality rights. (P.C. 11166.5 (a))
On and after January 1, 1993, any person who acts as a child visitation
monitor, prior to engaging in monitoring the first visit in a case, shall sign
a statement provided and retained by the court which ordered the monitor’s presence to the effect that he or she has knowledge of the provisions
of the Child Abuse Reporting Law and will comply with them. (P.C. 11166.5 (a))
Employers are strongly encouraged to provide their employees who are
mandated reporters with training in the duties imposed by the Child Abuse
Reporting Law. Training in the duties imposed by the reporting law shall
include training in child abuse identification and reporting. Whether or not
employers provide their employees with training, they shall provide their
employees who are mandated reporters with the statement required in
subdivision (a) of Section 11166.5. (P.C. 11165.7 (c)) The absence of training
shall not excuse a mandated rep

This is a partial quote from the California 2013 Child Abuse and Neglect Reporting Law. The laws are similar in most states. []

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 01, 2019 12:56PM

For anyone not familiar with mandatory child abuse training Iowa as a very good on-line presentation.

The information is a lot to absorb and some issues may be a complete surprise to some. I know that many people are stuck on "spare the rod and spoil the child" as god command to beat our children. This link does not address more loving ways to dispiline. The word 'Discipline" means to "teach" not 'to beat the hell our of a child. ( My words had gotten my in trouble with JRS and the bro in the late 70's and early '80's.)

Iowa Child Abuse Guide: []
There isa pretty good list of who must be a mandatory reporter.: Please note the following
Iowa guide to child abuse
The employer or supervisor of a person who is a mandatory reporter shall not apply a policy, work rule, or other requirement that interferes with the person making a report of child abuse.

*** Clergy members are not considered to be mandatory reporters unless they are functioning as social workers, counselors, or another role described as a mandatory reporter. If a member of clergy provides counseling services to a child, and the child discloses an abuse allegation, then the clergy member is mandated to report as a counselor. (The counseling is provided to a child during the scope of the reporter’s profession as a counselor, not clergy.)


The last paragraph of the Iowa code disturbs me. I believe it should be changed as possibly it could be mis-interpreted.***What is morally right in the sight of god to do?

There are also "permissive reporters who morally and ethically really should get a child in a suspected abuse situation help but they are not mandated.

There are some grey area about when a person enters into a Mandatory reporter position depending on the state. A baby sitter is a mandatory reporter... as can be a voluntary baby sitter who plays with neighbors kids while no parent is around. it is sticky and I'm not a lawyer.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 01, 2019 01:17PM

Just the facts per Iowa's Child Abuse Guide. Anyone could have googled this I am sorry to say. The link is full of what may be surprises to many who have been mis-informed by the tlw leadership. Does an apology apply according to the law to our victimized children?


Iowa Child Abuse Guide
Form 470-0665, Report of Suspected Child Abuse, can be found in the DHS Guide for Mandatory Reporters, available online through the DHS website.

If you suspect sexual abuse of a child under the age of 12 by a non-caretaker, you are required by law to make a report of child abuse to DHS.

If the child is age 12 or older, you may report the sexual abuse by a non-caretaker but you are not required by law to do so. DHS must report all sexual abuse allegations to law enforcement within 72 hours.

Waiver of Confidentiality
The issues of confidentiality and privileged communication are often areas of concern for mental health and health service professionals.

Did You Know. . .

Rules around confidentiality and privileged communication are waived during the child abuse assessment process once a report of child abuse becomes a case.

Iowa Code section 232.71B indicates that the Department may request information from any person believed to have knowledge of a child abuse case. County attorneys, law enforcement officers, social services agencies, and all mandatory reporters (whether or not they made the report of suspected abuse) are obligated to cooperate and assist with the child abuse assessment upon the request of the Department.

Sanctions for Failure to Report Child Abuse
Iowa Code section 232.75 provides for civil and criminal sanctions for failing to report child abuse. Any person, official, agency, or institution required by this chapter to report a suspected case of child abuse who knowingly and willfully fails to do so is guilty of a simple misdemeanor.

Any person, official, agency, or institution required by Iowa Code section 232.69 to report a suspected case of child abuse who knowingly fails to do so, or who knowingly interferes with the making of such a report in violation of section 232.70, is civilly liable for the damages proximately caused by such failure or interference.


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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: May 01, 2019 01:36PM

It si hard for me to let go of the fact that we had children abused and caretakers failed to notice and report. It is my understanding from posts a year ago that some school age children had volunteers supervising.
When I read this I thought uh-oh tlw was trying to skirt around the law. it has bugged me so i looked it up and here a quote and the link.

Back in 1981 my oldest were abused at kingdom school in CA. I reported it to the BRO and then to DHS NOTHING got fixed in teh wlk. In fact abuse continued- I suppose some caretakers just were not aware tho' they ALL should of had mandoartyr abuse training- ignorance of the law is no excuse.

My report went sour- but was life saving as I got my kids out of the cult that allowed teachers and a principal to beat by children and other members children. The bro lied and covered up. That abuse has had long term negative affects. Nothing changed- but it could have if only our fellow members had the real facts instead of an apostolic directive that was wrong.

Rant done for the night. thank your for your kind attention.

Iowa Abuse Guide

A perpetrator of child abuse must be a person responsible for the care of a child. A person responsible for the care of a child is defined in Iowa Code section 232.68 as:

Parent, guardian, or foster parent
A relative or any other person with whom the child resides and who assumes care or supervision of the child, without reference to the length of time or continuity of such residence
An employee or agent of any public or private facility providing care for a child, including an institution, hospital, health care facility, group home, mental health center, residential treatment center, shelter care facility, detention center, or child care facility

Any person providing care for a child, but with whom the child does not reside, without reference to the duration of the care
A person who assumes responsibility for the care or supervision of the child may assume such responsibility through verbal or written agreement, or implicitly through the willing assumption of the caretaking role.

Educators as Caretakers
Normally teachers are not considered caretakers in the teaching and supervising of children. If there is an accusation of child abuse (physical abuse, sexual abuse, or child prostitution) by an employee in the school district, every school district will have policies and procedures in place that they will follow.

Iowa Code section 280.17 requires that

[t]he board of directors of a school district and the authorities in charge of a nonpublic school shall prescribe procedures, in accordance with the guidelines contained in the model policy developed by the department of education in consultation with the department of human services, and adopted by the department of education pursuant to chapter 17A , for the handling of reports of child abuse, as defined in section 232.68, subsection 2, paragraph “a” , subparagraph (1), (3), or (5), alleged to have been committed by an employee or agent of the public or nonpublic school.

The jurisdiction established by Iowa Administrative Code 281–102.3 is that “To constitute a violation of these rules, acts of the school employee must be alleged to have occurred on school grounds, on school time, on a school-sponsored activity, or in a school-related context.”

There are times when an educator may be in the role of a caretaker and outside the jurisdiction of the school. For example, a teacher could be considered a caretaker if the teacher is responsible for supervising a child on an overnight trip.

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Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: Reepicheep ()
Date: May 02, 2019 01:33AM

Great posts on child abuse reporting, NancyB. Thank you for the links.

One of my biggest problems with TLWF teaching has to do with their bizarre attitudes toward death. Death and dying are a natural part of life. It is a difficult concept for most of us, especially when it touches us personally. JRS and Gary Hargrave have made the process particularly fraught with their teaching that resurrection life is available to those who are still living. Members have been blamed for their own illness and mortality, being told that their faith is insufficient. Likewise, members have been held responsible for “allowing” others to die because "they were not dedicated enough to praying" for the person who was ill. There was much anger and guilt directed toward the general membership when John Robert Stevens succumbed to cancer in 1983. People were actually told, "You killed him." That is not a healthy mindset, nor is it practical in the long run.

When this blaming is overlaid with unusual beliefs about diet and alternative medicine being the answer for every disease including cancer, it makes a very strange and toxic faith cocktail. Many have most likely died needlessly due to forgoing or forestalling adequate medical treatment, including chemotherapy. Many have been tormented and fearful, believing that their death process is due to some lack of obedience on their part. In my opinion, all of these tactics are part of a larger strategy to insure dependence on and subjection to the Apostolic Fathering Ministry every minute of every day of one's whole life.

If a leader dies, those members who are not praying hard enough are blamed , as well as those who have left the group and therefore become “apostate channels of Satan". If a member becomes very ill or dies, the ill person is often blamed. They were “out from under their covering” (aka not in submission to leadership), or not obeying dietary directives. Some important people who are dying are given messages to deliver to John Robert Stevens “on the other side of the veil". I know of one in particular who was given this type of message and told that it was his time to die. For several days he suffered, praying to die while his family watched helplessly. He felt that he was disobedient because he was not dying immediately.

Gary Hargrave seems to desire a place of leadership in the “worldwide Body of Christ”. (See []). I would assume that most Christians would prefer to be comforted by the love of God when a family member or other loved one dies. They would probably like a leader in their church to help them through this difficult process. They might like to be comforted by fellow believers offering to bring food or give other help. This is a gaping hole in The Living Word Fellowship. At a time when help, love and comfort are most needed, these things are often denied to their members, either because it is "undeserved" or simply because no one taught them that these are important functions in the Body of Christ. There is one glaring example of this mindset written on this forum by a daughter mourning her mother. In this instance, people in the church were actually instructed not to help the sick mother in any way. (See []). This deficiency is not due to a lack of love or caring between members for one another, but a lack of love, leadership and support in this area by those in charge. It is a heartbreaking and grievous sin against people who have given their whole lives, finances and families to serve in this organization.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2019 01:45AM by Reepicheep.

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