JEZtheBELLE:


We live in the land of 'gray' when it comes to defining the generations within TLW. The majority of the SECOND generation influx in the 70s were unmarried singles in their 20s, your family being an exception to that rule.

The short-lived THIRD generation empowerment in the early 80s were 20-somethings who were FIRST generation offspring. The death of JRS in '83 shook everything to it's foundation, with G&M re-securing the reins themselves and essentially ending most of the THIRD generation oversight.

You seemed to fall in that gray area whose parents were technically SECOND generation with you being THIRD, having already been born when they enlisted. The SECOND gens who went on to marry had kids who later comprised the FOURTH generation.

This is only one persons definition of the gray in which we all lived. Hope that confuses things further.

Quote

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: NancyB ()
Date: February 01, 2019 12:06AM

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------k
> Mental health professionals will tell you there is
> an inner self that is deep and private. A normal
> person keeps this place secret and private. It is
> very unhealthy to expose this place to another
> human.
>
> But the Living Word demands that you open it up
> and give it all. You are expected to tell your
> “designated relationship” everything. Including
> these secret places. This is very harmful IMO.

WOW! Thank you for that. The 'boundaries" issue just clicked in my head. WOW!. Been working on that in therapy over the years. I understood the concept but I could not ever seem to fully apply it. I knew that I had "gullible" and "vulnerable written across my forehead for every social path that came my way to read-I knew I had a old record with deep scratched groves. WOW! Now it personally makes sense. Thank you.

Thanks to NancyB and puddington. This just clicked for me. Boundaries. We learned not to have them. We were taught to "spill our guts" in a very inappropriate way meant to control us. Once when I was living with a family who was "shepherding" me through a very rough time, I was keeping a journal of my thoughts. Just for me. When the man of the house counseled me, he once repeated back a very specific phrase that I had written and I knew that my privacy had been invaded. I was a grown woman and they found my journal and read it so that they could "help" me. Such a violation.

eva bickhart, jrs' younger sister and married to fred bickhart (deceased) pastor of the washington, iowa church could possibly be a wealth of information if she is still alive, mentally competent and willing to provide helpful information. just a thought

Onion
I am so sorry.
It just hit me when I read a few words on your post about the Mother Whore o Heaven. I can't not even phantom how horrible she was to you. I remember those years i think you were there around her. I am appalled that no mature grown up saw what the hell she was doing or what she was.

For years i was haunted by flashes in my head the first time I saw her coming out of a room in South gate the first time I visited. John was greeting us and showing us around - M struck me as bossy bitch- a slut with junior High mentality. the kind of girl at a slumber party who ordered what girl was allowed to like what boy in 7th grade and what you had to do to be in her favor with he boy. I never knew anyone that bad in person but I saw movies. I was not in the habit of making snap judgments nor do I dislike many people, but I did not like her from day one.

I would like to get those haunting images out of my head. I was young and naive yet, I had this sickening feeling that I did not understand why i seemed to be the only one disgusted by her and some other icky things and the adults in the church put up with it. I was disturbed as to why 2 sisters wanted to stay around it when we weren't raised that way. I did not see why Marilyn did not scare my sister off.

I call my self generation 1 and 1/2. I feel a huge grief that I did not protect my older sisters in the early years from the women especially now that I know how things turned out.

When I was "under heavy guard" in the upper room she would running around being bossy and ick- i was fine with JRS and I had grown up knowing him when he visited- but she was creepy disgusting to me like I would imaging a madam.

I hope this was not so hateful that I get into trouble unloading my feeling about M. I hope I did not upset you Onion as I am empathetic to you and grateful for all you do.

Reepicheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isn't that sort of like the country song "I'm My
> Own Grandpa"? Just sayin'. ;)
> [g.co]

YES it is!

Prettyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eva bickhart, jrs' younger sister and married to
> fred bickhart (deceased) pastor of the washington,
> iowa church could possibly be a wealth of
> information if she is still alive, mentally
> competent and willing to provide helpful
> information. just a thought

What kind of information would you ask for from Eva? Another sister, Mary, was till alive last I knew- Been gone about 8 years- life goes on.
I hung out with Eva during some years and I did with Mary.They were my mentors. Maybe I can help? with a warning- with age I've lost my nice filter.

Does "Why Predators are Attracted to Careers in the Clergy" sound interesting?

I'm always researching for credible validations of my theories and opinions- I found this Jaw Dropping post that I might think it was written about CLW.

Enjoy and let me know how far your jaws dropped.

[www.psychologytoday.com]

regarding the generational discussion, i wonder if it be more accurate to identify one's generational placement not by age but when initially became involved with lw/shiloh. e.g., if one was 50 yoa first becoming involved with the church in 1970,i would characterize as 2nd generation, not by virtue of their age but by virtue of initial involvement. regardless, all were lambs for the slaughter.

i have been pondering, since one of my more recent posts, the notion of freewill, victimization, one's own sense of accountability, etc. an incredibly fine line and, likely, different for many who post their thoughts, feelings and experiences on this very wonderful forum; and again, i applaud rick for his efforts, passion, energy and resolve to help all of those caught in the throes of involvement in cult experience. in a few days of contemplation and reflection i have come to an understanding, exceeding my previous understanding, that i was wrong, very wrong in my suggesting "get over it". for my experience with lw/shilioh, i was not traumatized but rather benefited. i became a student of biblical texts, as a young man found a safe harbor from the raging hormones that a young man experiences in that pivotal transitional time of life and discovered new friends of all ages, from the very young girls who wrote me letters asking if they could sit by me in the church service (after all, how could they resist given that i was prettyboy, and a p.s., along with family photos i include those sweet letters of so long ago in my family reserve), to an elder asking me what i thought about this or that, and of course, other elders wanting to reign me in for having an independent spirit (god forbid, one thinking independently of church orthodoxy, the HORROR!). so i am winding back, like a garrison keillor monologue, to what i purposed at the outset - "get over it" (my words) is vastly better stated as, "move on" as best one can. i apologize for my lack of empathy for those who have suffered travails that i did not. despite this apology, i do still struggle with the essence of one's own accountability in the involvement of lw/shiloh and if, be the case, that in that involvement at some point in time, you harmed someone, you spoke of them in disparaging terms because they failed to pony up to lw/shiloh orthodoxy, this i say - forgive yourself and, if possible, ask for their forgiveness. what i am suggesting is not a blame game; what i am suggesting is one of the most central tenets of the christian faith - "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." admittedly, a damn hard sell with hargrave, a very damn hard sell.
happy trails to the merry merries and my apologies for my sometimes lack of sensitivity

p.s.,
i meant to mention victor frankl and my attraction to his philosophy, which may somewhat explain my sense of personal responsibility, accountability and, ultimately, one's sense of oneself. you can read about him in your encyclopedia and/or internet browser. another intellectual/moral giant along with previously mentioned, in my forum's comments, of dietrich bonhoeffer. if only, lw/shiloh adherents, past and present, could have had/have at their readings these 2 giants of moral dictate (the likes of jrs and his magic tricks and the marilyn/hargrave circus of extreme, wholesale bullshit certainly failed at any sense of a moral compass), goodness knows how things may have turned out differently. i have to wonder, without equivocation, had jrs or the hargrave blitzkrieg been adherents to a moral code more akin to frankl and bonhoeffer than their own, self-serving completely temporal universe, sucking the life and fortunes and hopes of adherents, then this forum would never have been necessary. but alas, now is not such the case. instead of plowshares, it is now the season of swords; a season to right what has been wronged - "to every season, there is a purpose". i think i heard that in a byrds' song - i wonder where they got that line.
happy trails, you merry merries,
prettyboy

i find it so curious how some pastors were marginalized and then ostracized; for example, bob simmering and francis frangipane because they stood up to power because of principle and then some of their accusers (as i understand things through conversations of recent or long ago), such as brent finney not long after became ostracized themselves because they drew a line in the sand. don't, please don't get me wrong - i've no bones to pick with brent, i remember him as a good soul and to this day wonder how he and family are doing and, i hope well. an account and/or rumor i was privy to many, many years ago that lw leadership wanted him to dump his wife b/c she "wasn't in line" and he declined. i do not know if this is true but i would not be surprised if it were. and in case brent is following the posts on this forum, i wish to tell him hello. and the same to steve and barbara corbett, to bob simmering, to dorothy simmering, to a certain mail carrier in kalona, to francis frangipane (btw, i've his lp in my store!) and so many others that for many years have been absent in my life but not in my heart. you see, and i have stated it previously, i met some of the finest people in my life through my lw/shiloh experience and, no doubt, many of the readers on this forum can say the same. yeah, some of it turned out shitty but, on the other hand, you have each other now which otherwise may not have been the case. and true, hargrave may walk away untouched (remains to be seen), relishing in temporal delights with a trophy wife to boot, but he lacks something you all merries have, an adoration for truth.