GoingRogue: I have not been following / watching Cults, or Cults and Extreme Beliefs. It sounds interesting though. I did watch the Leah Remini special and the FLDS Polygamist group; the similarities to the LW are uncanny.

Larry Bobo: We all are diverse and clearly all have different experiences, both in and out of the Living Word. You have some valid points and I respect your view point / experiences and words of eloquent.

You wrote: "I watched the 1990 Shiloh Amphitheater YouTube video and it brought back good memories for me. I worked on the electrical portion of the amphitheater and had a great time with those that helped build it."

When I read your first comment above, I thought, great, I too have good memories. However, the good memories are irrelevant when they are so greatly overshadowed by the deception and lies of serving false prophets and being forced to submit to authority figures that truly were not following the word of our Heavenly Father, (not words of JRS, or GH). I too had faith and was undoubtedly misdirected. BUT... for me, I was a young teen when I first came into TLW and I fought my parent tooth and nail, as I knew that this LW establishment was not correct. Clearly, due to my age, I did not win that battle and was forced into The Walk. The ironic part about this.., so many others that came into TLW when I did, left, I stayed for the long haul. This was simply a result of my deep dedication that I naturally possess in life in general.

Some of us suffered some great losses, for me, it was my blood family and self worth. Now if you knew me, you would be shocked to hear the "self worth" part, because I come across very together and strong and while I am strong, there is a part of me that was raped via years of TLW abuse. And then others perhaps skated in and out mostly unscathed. Since we are all quite different, we react differently and approach things differently.

On more than one occasion, be it a crisis / unfavorable circumstance going on in TLW, I told Marilyn that God is watching everything and all of us. He sees it all. She sheepishly agreed and did not say another word. For me, when it came down to the brass tacks, there were no ifs, ands, or butts. God IS in control, he always WAS in control and he always WILL be in control. We just have to allow him by virtue of our will to be in control. The battle is not ours, it is his.

kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And on a lighter note . .
> .
>
>
> O B E Y * O B E Y * O B E
> Y
>
>
> Repent To Remove Disobedience
>
> Posted on June 28, 2018
> by Gary Hargrave
> Source: hargrave.com
>
> [garyhargrave.com]
>
> * * *
>
> Obedience: His Standard For Judgment
>
> Posted on June 29, 2018
> by Gary Hargrave
> Source: hargrave.com
>
> [garyhargrave.com]
>
> * * *
>
> Our Survival Is Based On Obedience
>
> Posted on June 29, 2018
> by Gary Hargrave
> Source: hargrave.com
>
> [garyhargrave.com]
>
> * * *
>
> Confirmation — The Safeguard For Our Absolute
> Obedience
>
> Posted on June 30, 2018
> by Gary Hargrave
> Source: hargrave.com
>
> [garyhargrave.com]
>
> * * *
>
> The Two-Edged Sword Of Obedience And
> Confirmation
>
> Posted on July 1, 2018
> by Gary Hargrave
> Source: hargrave.com
>
> [garyhargrave.com]
>
> * * *
>
> (A wonderful way to spend a summer
> vacation.)


My memory is still so vivid pertaining to the words on "obedience"! A scare tactic indeed, thus getting all of the sheep in check! I remember feeling so empty and worthless when GH would bring these words.

I would often wonder if GH and MH were following the same words that they so graciously flooded us with??? I think not.

By the way, I see that GH got married in May. Seems to be following suit with his Step Son.

I'm relieved that he (or someone) edited the messages so they apply to him personally ;)


Repent To Remove My Disobedience

Posted on June 28, 2018
by Gary Hargrave


* * *

Obedience: His Standard For My Judgment

Posted on June 29, 2018
by Gary Hargrave

* * *

Our Survival Is Based On My Obedience

Posted on June 29, 2018
by Gary Hargrave

* * *

Confirmation — The Safeguard For My Absolute Obedience

Posted on June 30, 2018
by Gary Hargrave


* * *

The Two-Edged Sword Of Obedience And Confirmation--I need this!

Posted on July 1, 2018
by Gary Hargrave

I spent the last year. Doing homework. Examining cult brainwashing and mind control theories. Both for and against. I've concluded. Brainwashing and mind control theories are a myth. A fantasy. Delusion. The links below. Are critical of cult brainwashing theories. But they are worth reading. You can form your own opinion. Sharing another point of few should be welcomed on the message board. And telling a current LW member or expat. They are/were brainwashed. Maybe is not the truth.







[journals.openedition.org]

[www.standleague.org]#

Here is a link to a YouTube video where Rick Ross, moderator of this forum, talks about coercive persuasion (i.e. brainwashing). I find it pretty convincing.

[goo.gl]

"The group's beliefs can never be critically questioned in any way."

From reading years of comments on this forum from ex-TLWF members, being shut down, rebuked, ostracized etc. is a familiar experience to those having the audacity to ask a genuine question about what someone in 'authority' said or did. A perceived challenge is met with a beat down. The fact that Gary has brought one message after another in the hot summer environment of Shiloh on the subject of obedience suggests to me that maintaining control over the people is still top priority. Maybe you wouldn't call it brainwashing, but I don't think there is any expression tolerated within the ranks that doesn't conform with the leader's thinking. Once the leader convinces the people that not obeying him is tantamount to disobeying God, the rest is easy. The people are pliable.

The LW members who had the misfortune of attending the Shiloh "School of Prophets" sure got their "obedience training" from GH.

"Obey the Lord, I mean me. I mean the Lord in me. I mean Christ in the flesh, AKA ME"!

Wow. Just wow.

Toward the end of the YouTube video, Ross quotes the late clinical psychologist Margaret Singer, co-author of the book 'Cults in our Midst,' about the difference between the average con artist and a cult leader.
Here's what he says Singer told him:

"Brainwashing is nothing really more than a confidence game. And a cult leader is running a con. The difference between the average con game and a cult, is that the typical con artist will get the money and leave town. A cult con artist will keep running the same con on the same people for the foreseeable future. And that's what cults are all about is conning people into being exploited and being taken advantage of."

Below is some background info on Singer taken from Wikipedia. You can read the entire article by clicking on this link:
[goo.gl]

"Singer began to study brainwashing in the 1950s at Walter Reed in Washington, D.C., where she interviewed U.S. soldiers who had been taken prisoner during the Korean War. Beginning in the late 1960s, she expanded her studies in the field of cults and published a number of articles on mind control and similar areas. She developed theories about how cults recruit and retain members and was on the board of many of the major anti-cult groups and organizations in the United States. At one point, Singer interviewed Charles Manson."

Very informative, changedagain.

Mind Control

Destructive cults, groups, movements and/or leaders "maintain intense allegiance through the arguments of their ideology, and through social and psychological pressures and practices that, intentionally or not, amount to conditioning techniques that constrict attention, limit personal relationships, and devalue reasoning." 

-- Margaret Singer, Ph.D.


[www.culteducation.com]

This sounds familiar. "The carnal mind is enmity against God." Romans 8:7a We were told that our minds function on a soulish level, and that our goal should be to live in the spirit realm. The message was, "Don't think."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2018 09:35AM by GoingRogue.