Reepicheep Wrote:

> All I can say is that I am thankful to be out of
> that mess. I hope that people will think very hard
> before moving to Brazil if they are told that it's
> God's will for them to go. That just has disaster
> written all over it!

I agree, Reepicheep. That would, unfortunately, be the first instinct for many of them should their church shut down. I have no sympathy for those that have led them down this dead end path, and continue to harp about their supposed lack of dedication. They've suffered enough. They should do as they please (uh oh...heresy), without being paralyzed by fear of the living word god.
I know--easier said then done.

When a church stops giving enough to the central apostolic ministry, it’s time to close it down, sell the assets off and move the funds into a corporation that has ultimate ownership by the “apostolic fathering ministry” (i.e. Gary)

Seems like Shiloh probably runs in the red most of the year. It probably is on the chopping block. San Diego as well.

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When a church stops giving enough to the central
> apostolic ministry, it’s time to close it down,
> sell the assets off and move the funds into a
> corporation that has ultimate ownership by the
> “apostolic fathering ministry” (i.e. Gary)
>
> Seems like Shiloh probably runs in the red most of
> the year. It probably is on the chopping block.
> San Diego as well.

Those two would definitely cause major angst. Would YASPers go to Brazil do their yearly slave labor? ;-)

Sons Have Nowhere To Lay Their Heads...Uh oh! Here it comes!
February 3, 2018 - by Gary Hargrave Still in Brazil, BTW

When people told Jesus they wanted to follow Him, His response was, “The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head” (Luke 9:57-58). In this response, Jesus was showing us something significant about a walk with God. [garyhargrave.com]

Last I heard, "nowhere to lay his head" definitely didn't apply to Gary. He's hardly homeless. He has many very lovely places to live. But it may very well describe what will happen to those following him, especially APCO leaders who have received housing and a salary for years. Stay tuned, folks!

I remember hearing a similar word given to the sheep of a LW church that was being shut down and sold off. They were being rebuked for having put roots down in the city the LW church was in. Never mind that many of the sheep had careers and established businesses in that location. If they were truly kingdom focused, they were to walk away from all of that.

Funny how little of that Lilies of the Field lifestyle was demonstrated by the leadership.

puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember hearing a similar word given to the
> sheep of a LW church that was being shut down and
> sold off. They were being rebuked for having put
> roots down in the city the LW church was in.
> Never mind that many of the sheep had careers and
> established businesses in that location. If they
> were truly kingdom focused, they were to walk away
> from all of that.
>
> Funny how little of that Lilies of the Field
> lifestyle was demonstrated by the leadership.

God forbid that people try to provide for their families by having a career or a business. You're just supposed to throw it all away and drag your family off to follow "the Kingdom". I don't see Gary doing that. Maybe Rick should walk away from TLW to follow "the Kingdom." Maybe Gary should walk away from his many properties and just trust God to provide.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That [following the direction] would, unfortunately,
> be the first instinct for many of them should
> their church shut down. I have no sympathy for
> those that have led them down this dead end path,
> and continue to harp about their supposed lack of
> dedication. They've suffered enough. They should
> do as they please (uh oh...heresy), without being
> paralyzed by fear of the living word god.
> I know--easier said then done.

I pray that those people will not follow this time, changedagain. Contrary to TLWF teaching, they are not accruing "Chosen People" points with God for ruining their families and their livelihood to pursue some twisted "Kingdom" dream.

Reepicheep Wrote:

> I pray that those people will not follow this
> time, changedagain. Contrary to TLWF teaching,
> they are not accruing "Chosen People" points with
> God for ruining their families and their
> livelihood to pursue some twisted "Kingdom" dream.

True

puddington Wrote:
> God forbid that people try to provide for their
> families by having a career or a business. You're
> just supposed to throw it all away and drag your
> family off to follow "the Kingdom". I don't see
> Gary doing that. Maybe Rick should walk away from
> TLW to follow "the Kingdom." Maybe Gary should
> walk away from his many properties and just trust
> God to provide.

Yes, serve as an example. Be the first ones to 'drink the cup.'
So many of these 'living words' would never see the light of day if the measuring stick was stringently applied to the person speaking it, instead of just dumped on the fellowship.

Speaking of leadership styles, I’m reading a #1 New York Times Bestseller entitled “Extreme Ownership” written by a Navy SEAL about business leadership. It continuously highlights how flawed TLWF leadership style is. “You and I will get along just fine as soon as you realize that I am God” apparently is not a good atmosphere in which to develop healthy relationships and increased productivity. The main point of the book is to encourage leaders to accept total responsibility for what happens under their watch. You alone are responsible for the actions of those under your charge – not them. There are no rebellious sons or false shepherds to blame for John not rising from the dead. You don’t get all the control and none of the personal responsibility. Correct behavior in others must first be modeled by the leader – you lead by example, not by trying to convince others to do what you are not doing.

Another interesting take away is the proper relationship between upper and middle management. It is vitally important for middle management to clearly understand, and to believe in, the direction upper management is going in order to lead the smaller group they are responsible for. I’ve mentioned before that I sent a letter to Apco looking for answers on a half dozen things that confused me, as well as others, (e.g. Did the kingdom really dawn in 1979?) and the response was to remove me from all ministry for the next year until I learned not to question anything. In hindsight, it was totally about control and had nothing to do with helping me gain a better understanding of the truth. Perhaps if I had understood the truth I would have left sooner.

It’s comical now to think that if you choose to follow the teachings of Jesus instead of the teachings of John, many horrible things will happen to you. Actually, just the opposite happens when you finally get out of the toxic atmosphere. Should you decide to leave, (which is really the only option when you come to your senses) your mother, who happens to be well past her child bearing years, will have relations with a fallen angel and you will be born again as a Nephilim. All I knew at the time was that a Nephilim was not something anyone would want to be, so I better do what I was told. (I know now how Nicodemus must have felt – “Is it possible to go back into your mother’s womb and be born again?”) I hate to pop the fear bubble, but to my knowledge, this has never actually happened to anyone – even those who post on this site. It sure is nice to have my critical thinking skills back again and my head out from where the sun don't shine.