Gosh. Interesting idea about the private FB group. I think there currently are private FB groups for ex-members of the San Diego and Houston LW churches.

howmidoing: I don't think the book is available. The few books that I have on cults I found in used book stores. Also, I found this previous clarification from the RR moderator helpful: "There may be certain beliefs or teachings by a group or leader to manipulate and exploit people. In that sense discussing beliefs can be relevant." Do you have a specific vision for what people would discuss on a private FB group? Would you have to take a selfie and share a photo of yourself? I'm not on FB so I really don't know much about how it works.

Walk Nightmares: Recently I had a nightmare in which I watched the tectonic plates in the ocean move. I also used to have the tidal wave and earthquake dreams and driving my car off a cliff. I thought maybe these were signs of things to come. Ha. Maybe they were subconscious chaos dreams linked to LW angst. I hadn't thought about that.

Puddington: Do you know what people talk about in those private FB groups? Do they brag about themselves and share pictures? Or, is it like here or maybe different?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2017 03:20AM by lily rose.

howmidoing, Don't mean to pooh on you but don't think letters from ex-members will sway G, Holbrook. The other brainwashed pastors. What might sway them (not sure). Pressure from local churches/pastors in their area. About holding family members hostage. Even to that. G might say F...you.

Howmidoing, I enjoy your enthusiasm and quest to galvanize the troops for change. I imagine we have all dreamed about bringing down that organization once and for all. Go for it. Have you thought further than the theoretical? Optimally, to whom do you see a letter or letters going, and what reaction are you hoping for? Would we all send approximately the same letter? Considering those here who collectively agree that there has never existed a religion that did NOT twist scripture for its own gain, and since the walk never pretended to care about bringing souls to Jesus in the first place (indeed, many here thoughtfully maintain the whole Jesus thing is overrated), that leaves for subject matter the harm they have done, something we do agree on. No need to dispute religious dogma differences, which are legion; there is plenty of good old-fashioned immorality they should answer for. I would love to read more of your thoughts on this, and a first draft.

LampShmamp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>(indeed, many here thoughtfully
> maintain the whole Jesus thing is overrated)

Many? Been reading all posts. It's more like. Some. A few.

Also, read the strand on why do ex cult members turn from the Bible, a quote from Rick Ross 3/3/07, "Some people that were abused through religion and or the Bible in a destructive group, become disillusioned with religion and or the Bible. Most do not. We respect the choices of everyone here."

Thanks for the reminder, Mr. Moderator. I do get tired of hearing sermons about Jesus on this forum though. My point has been that I have found desperately-needed guidance for my life from many sources. With regard to the comments about the secret FB group, it's called Alumni of the Barn, a reference back to the early 70s when the San Diego church was called Coniah Chapel and met in an old metal barn. I was asked to join, but declined because there is no anonymity (something I still feel the need to vigorously defend). A couple of my friends are members of this FB group and occasionally bring me up to date: deaths, births, reunions, etc. I also happen to know that John Miller joined this group, albeit with words of caution from the FB group monitor that no one was to ask him about his comings and goings within the cult and certainly not about about the circumstances of his departure. It's a bit offensive to me that former members of the Apostolic Company feel they need protection. Protection from what? We needed protection from John Miller (and others) when they callously directed our lives to suit them, destroyed families and marriages, and then had the nerve to say they were speaking from God. Anyway, apparently a reunion was held a year or so ago. Word has it that the reunion was just like old times. The "elders" gathered together to confirm the Word God was speaking, and the women and children (and other little people) prepared food and waited for the service to begin. I grew weary years ago with all the rehashing and folks trying to make sense of what amounted to insanity. I'm sorry to be so cynical, but it seems nothing has changed. I would have been very uncomfortable in that setting and probably would have opened my big mouth and said something, although I'm sure they would have said I was out of the flow. My apologies to any and all I have offended by simply being honest about how I see things.

Quote
howmidoing
Date: March 31, 2017 06:32PM

Has anyone considered a large group letter writing campaign? Flooding the LW with letters from former members all over the country? Explaining how we believe they have twisted the scriptures for their gain and they are not winning souls for Jesus. And hurting people along the way?

I have been on 2 sides of this thinking. Both times, it was a futile experience. I do not believe that the efforts would do much good. There might be some personal satisfaction in writing letters for one's own healing.

-I watched outsiders come in and confront John, Gary, &..apco. I was not completely persuaded by their positions, neither was John & co. I agreed with some of the statements and letters that were presented at the time, but they did not convince me to let go of the ring. I was not ready to listen.

-After I left, I tried to convince others of the short-comings and errors that I saw. I was not persuasive. Not one bit.

I have elected to try another approach. I now try to speak and act as truthfully as I am able and do it with gentleness, conviction, and compassion. I hope that it will be more meaningful.

My (momentary) conclusion - it is not my job to persuade others to my own, but rather to live as I am led, showing others real fruit from my discoveries. I am, however, ready to embrace others, if needed. I found a shortage of individuals available to embrace and understand me when I needed it the most.

LampShmamp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Howmidoing, I enjoy your enthusiasm and quest to
> galvanize the troops for change. I imagine we have
> all dreamed about bringing down that organization
> once and for all. Go for it. Have you thought
> further than the theoretical? Optimally, to whom
> do you see a letter or letters going, and what
> reaction are you hoping for? Would we all send
> approximately the same letter? Considering those
> here who collectively agree that there has never
> existed a religion that did NOT twist scripture
> for its own gain, and since the walk never
> pretended to care about bringing souls to Jesus in
> the first place (indeed, many here thoughtfully
> maintain the whole Jesus thing is overrated), that
> leaves for subject matter the harm they have done,
> something we do agree on. No need to dispute
> religious dogma differences, which are legion;
> there is plenty of good old-fashioned immorality
> they should answer for. I would love to read more
> of your thoughts on this, and a first draft.


I doubt that it would bring them down. But I imagine a well executed letter campaign would stir up something. Possibly get some rumors going around, at least the word "cult" should circulate to get people searching; maybe get some of the members to question what it is that they truly believe in. And start a trend of people possibly beginning to think for themselves. I mean we have all done it at one time or another and all of us were involved for years or born into. So it is possible. Especially if the letters are addressed to different people and the main churches. So it's not just going to one person that can hide them.

I just know for me, it wasn't until someone confronted me with the word cult, showed me evidence that LW is a known as such by other Christian & secular organizations, did even start to suspect anything. It was a seed planted, and I was angry and defending LW even though I hadn't been part of it in 3 years at the time.

I would hope to at least get the main pastors & some individuals to realize that the hurts they have caused, the people they have tossed aside are not gone or insignificant. That we exist in numbers.

I would hope that everyone here would contact their friends that are former members as well and ask if they would like to join the letter writing. I can think of 5 people off the top of my head that no longer attend but I doubt are aware of this website or the numbers of people viewing this particular forum.

I do think, even if some here do not ascribe to Jesus, there is validity in pointing this out to LW, because they advertise themselves as Christian, but wholly do not follow scripturally legitimate procedures. Such as the very clear tenants in Timothy of being a deacon/pastor in a Christian church (husband of one wife, sober, not given to anger, etc).


I think letters (plural) would have greater impact. I don't imagine this to be an instant fire, but a slow burn.

Does that make sense?

lily rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> howmidoing:
> Do you have a specific vision for what
> people would discuss on a private FB group? Would
> you have to take a selfie and share a photo of
> yourself? I'm not on FB so I really don't know
> much about how it works.



LILYROSE: Not really at this point. It's just an idea, purely for the sake of connecting a little more with this group since this is so anonymous, but I understand why folks want to be anonymous. And the idea it may be easier to connect with other former members that may not have searched and found this website.

Yes, you would need to create a profile on facebook to be in the private group. But you do not have to add pictures or anything too private if you do not want too. There are privacy settings you can adjust to your comfort level.

I'll put that on a back burner for now unless there is real interest...

NickleandDimed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PBS News Hour is running a 5 part piece on PTSD.
> It started yesterday.


I couldn't find this on my local station/pbs website. If you happen to watch could you let me know if they advertise a way to buy the series? Or what the actual title is.

Please and thank you!