Grandeur,

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but I suspect you would agree that it will be God who will choose who will reign and rule with Christ.

Many no longer in TLWF feel that the controlling leadership profoundly hurt and damaged them and that the church is a an unsafe group. The post below may help you understand why so many were hurt.


rrmoderator Wrote on 1/22/15:
---------------------------------------------------
>
> Again, see
> [www.culteducation.com]
>
> Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe
> group/leader.
>
> 1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful
> accountability.
>
> 2. No tolerance for questions or critical
> inquiry.
>
> 3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding
> budget, expenses such as an independently audited
> financial statement.
>
> 4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such
> as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and
> persecutions.
>
> 5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former
> followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or
> even evil.
>
> 6. Former members often relate the same stories of
> abuse and reflect a similar pattern of
> grievances.
>
> 7. There are records, books, news articles, or
> television programs that document the abuses of
> the group/leader.
>
> 8. Followers feel they can never be "good
> enough".
>
> 9. The group/leader is always right.
>
> 10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of
> knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other
> process of discovery is really acceptable or
> credible.
>
> Ten warning signs regarding people involved
> in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
>
> 1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the
> group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost
> every practical consideration.
>
> 2. Individual identity, the group, the leader
> and/or God as distinct and separate categories of
> existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in
> the follower's mind these identities become
> substantially and increasingly fused--as that
> person's involvement with the group/leader
> continues and deepens.
> 3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or
> questioned it is characterized as "persecution".
>
> 4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly
> programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of
> the group/leader in personal behavior.
>
> 5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem
> solving, solutions, and definitions without
> meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability
> to think independently or analyze situations
> without group/leader involvement.
>
> 6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader
> agenda, which seems to supercede any personal
> goals or individual interests.
>
> 7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of
> humor.
>
> 8. Increasing isolation from family and old
> friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the
> group/leader.
>
> 9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified
> no matter how harsh or harmful.
>
> 10. Former followers are at best-considered
> negative or worse evil and under bad influences.
> They can not be trusted and personal contact is
> avoided.
>
> Ten signs of a safe group/leader.
>
> 1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions
> without becoming judgmental and punitive.
>
> 2. A safe group/leader will disclose information
> such as finances and often offer an independently
> audited financial statement regarding budget and
> expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you
> more than you want to know.
>
> 3. A safe group/leader is often democratic,
> sharing decision making and encouraging
> accountability and oversight.
>
> 4. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former
> followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and
> forbid others from associating with them.
>
> 5. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail
> of overwhelmingly negative records, books,
> articles and statements about them.
>
> 6. A safe group/leader will encourage family
> communication, community interaction and existing
> friendships and not feel threatened.
>
> 7. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable
> boundaries and limitations when dealing with
> others.
>
> 8. A safe group/leader will encourage critical
> thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of
> self-esteem.
>
> 9. A safe group/leader will admit failings and
> mistakes and accept constructive criticism and
> advice.
>
> 10. A safe group/leader will not be the only
> source of knowledge and learning excluding
> everyone else, but value dialogue and the free
> exchange of ideas.

Due respect, but I wouldn't want my beloved pets to be ruled and reigned over by Gary. They deserve better.

BREAKING NEWS: Pitching a Pipe Dream

"Shiloh University Library Groundbreaking Ceremony
July 4, 2016

[www.garyandmarilynhargrave.com]

"Yesterday evening many people . . . gathered together in faith and anticipation on the future site of the Shiloh University Library (HEAVEN forbid)."

"In this groundbreaking (i.e. heartbreaking) ceremony, Craig Haworth prayed that the Lord's Spirit (good luck with that one) rest upon this future facility, and I proclaimed (of course) that it be a place of true, scholastic, Biblical study that draws people into an experience with the Lord (as I practice more 'ruling & reigning' over them)."

What your pocket-books, 'cause the pitch is coming.

HEADLINE NEWS: God Declares His Independence--From America

"We Declare An Independent Nation, Dependent On God"
July 4, 2016

[www.garyandmarilynhargrave.com]

"A week ago, I opened this school of prophets by reminding us of the deep heart cry of our spiritual mother (wicked stepmom?), Marilyn, who always held this fellowship in the presence of God (and held in contempt those who would leave it)."

"As we conclude this time together, we return to our local churches carrying the presence of God in oneness (with fellow Kool-Aid drinkers) and with a determination to be a people who are more hungry for God than ever before (because every past attempt was never good enough)."

"...we declare as Moses did, 'If Your presence does not go with us, do not lead us up from here' (Exodus 33:15) (or, we will go without it as we have done in the past)."

"We believe that our hunger for God will flow into this country and create a drive to see God dwell with us as a nation (and all other nations be damned)."

pbxguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Due respect, but I wouldn't want my beloved pets
> to be ruled and reigned over by Gary. They deserve
> better.

Exactly
Mine does absolutely no work. No way he would submit to this guy.

It’s true. My wife and I serve our two dogs. Food, water, shelter and even anti-anxiety/stress pills for the fireworks season. They won’t submit unless they’re rewarded, that is their unalterable bottom line.

I truly am deeply disturbed by Grandeur's statements. With the congregations being over 50 for the most part, or perhaps 60, it pains me to think that they will live the rest of their lives in that crucible, enduring all manner of pain, mind control, always striving for something that does not exist in reality.

I am very sad that so many will die never seeing the "promises" fulfilled but will... G has it all set up so that it will be a noble thing to "die in the way". He can't lose with his formula.

He is heartless and cruel to be taking them all around and around the mountain. How many of the words since M's death are nearly identical--always the same themes. Say something sexy then pummel them all with condemnation.

I have incurred a great loss myself. But I do look forward to the life outside LW. I no longer look over my shoulder in fear. I wish all of my brothers and sisters could walk away with the the rest of their lives free for the taking. To acutally make a life out of the time they have left. That is what I must do.

If Grandeur could only take a look...... But the brainwashing does not allow for that. All thoughts contrary to the party line are suppressed... even the strongest doubts. I know because when the lights went on, all that had been repressed in my memory came on line. I could see the truth even from the very distant past.....like cards flipping over one at a time.

I pray this awakening comes to Granduer and all who still suffer.

Listen to me. Someone has taken control of your mind and your life and you have not really lived the life you were given... especially in this country. It is sad. I will live my life to the full and I do not answer to G or anyone. I pray you see it in time. My God he is doing this to the young people too. It is very calculated. G knows what makes you tick and exactly what to say and when. He knows how to control you. That is it. I will shut up because I understand that you cannot hear the sound of the trees falling in the forest. God Bless you Granduer. Think about it. You care enough about the people on this forum. I am sure you must be trying to save them when you are the one tho needs saving and you are worth it. Your life matters. Don't let another keep taking your days. I hope you take no offense.

Very well said Cloudwatcher and from the heart too!

Dog owners...you are right. Dogs have highly developed BS sniffers. My own dog (Tina) thinks giving G dominion over the gators at Walt Disney World Orlando would be a much better fit.

Apparently, TLWF is now offering retirement planning. Somehow that is not comforting to me. That said, if I was still involved and had to select a fund...my inclination would be to put everything into the TLWF Target Retirement 2085 Upward Flow Fund. It just sounds right.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apparently, TLWF is now offering retirement
> planning. Somehow that is not comforting to me.
> That said, if I was still involved and had to
> select a fund...my inclination would be to put
> everything into the TLWF Target Retirement 2085
> Upward Flow Fund. It just sounds right.


_________________________________________________________________

It gets better....they're offering an "All You Can Eat Twinkie Promotion" to encourage participation.