Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Chaos1952
()
Date: July 16, 2013 12:58AM
Quote
changedagainQuote
sierradawnQuote
paleface
Pale Face,
I love what you wrote, it's so true. I distinctly remember a service where they were talking about how bad individuality was, that we all needed to be one and be led by others. WOW. We had to look at others as we were singing, to sing to "the Christ in others".
I'll never forget the first ministry I received from John. It was a 'marriage checkout,' quite common in the day. Anyway, my wife to be was commended for being 'submissive.' I was told that I had a 'freelance spirit'--characterized as being submissive at times, other times not. Anyway, something as seemingly innocuous as being labeled as slightly independent had the immediate effect of isolating/ostracizing me from my peers. Of course, I immediately went to work to correct the situation, finding ways to prove by devotion...as much to restore my good standing among my peers than to pave the way for a marriage approval--which we eventually did get.
Looking back, I obviously needed more of an independent streak. It would have spared me many, many years of fruitless endeavor, serving the agenda of a few at my family's expense. I finally took a stand in the mid-90's...the result that my wife and I, and two kids, were no longer subject to this daily mind warp. No one in the family, to this day, has blamed me for getting them out. Maybe they were just tired of singing to the 'Christ in others' (sorry--had to end this post with a bit of levity).
What it boils down to, it is the same spirit that is destroying America, this ''submit blindly'' ''never come against authority'' just get in line and keep toiling and never question that those that want to determine your every thought and action and emotion don't live by the same standards as you. You did well, you saved yourself and your family from a deadly totalitarian rule. You are to be commended. I did the same, I stood up and told the authority figures they were wrong, and I was told that I had "come against the man (or woman) of God" and they would pray for me that my family would live and all that s#!t, but I lived and am alive and I plan to never subject myself to another antichrist.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
TaitenAndProud
()
Date: July 16, 2013 04:27AM
Oh, you mean like THESE very teachings of Jesus Christ Himself?Quote
And you dare not try to tell them something is wrong with the kind of relationship that they have with you - nor try to explain what is wrong nor why it is wrong - especially in the light of God's Word , which is the remedy - for what is causing a separation to exist between you as a family, with your own family, the remedy - which is able to be found in the Holy Scriptures and in the very teachings and words spoken to all, by Jesus Christ Himself , preserved for all and any one - to be able to find what the truth is - concerning the distance and separation that exists between family members who are in and who are not in this church. .
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 19:27-29 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
Notice there's no mention of "husband" in there - Jesus was speaking specifically and only to MEN. He was extremely rude to women.
John 12:25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
"Heaven" will apparently be filled with depressed, self-loathing individuals who detest everyone and everything. Fun!
Luke 9:59-62 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Isn't that what so many dangerous cults require? That people cut all ties with "unbelievers" and forget all about social obligations, social norms, and social conventions, in favor of following the cult leader without questioning?
Matthew 12:47-50 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
That is *PRECISELY* what Jesus taught - that they should regard their "fellow faithful" as their family members instead of their REAL family members. These cults are just being honest about it!
This cult does not need to "twist" or deviously manipulate the supposed teachings of Jesus Christ - all the ugly is *right there* for anyone with eyes to see. To value something with all the characteristics of nonexistence (invisible, undetectable, intangible, silent, etc.) over and above the very real people we know, THAT's the worst culty behavior right there. Physician, heal thyself!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2013 04:28AM by TaitenAndProud.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
TaitenAndProud
()
Date: July 16, 2013 04:45AM
Yeah, just like the Bible says:Quote
I distinctly remember a service where they were talking about how bad individuality was, that we all needed to be one and be led by others. WOW.
1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man.
Romans 13:1-2 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
1 Corinthians 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.
Romans 12:16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.
Philippians 1:27 Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one Spirit, striving together as one for the faith of the gospel
2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brothers and sisters, rejoice! Strive for full restoration, encourage one another, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
No creativity allowed!
Remember how you're supposed to think of yourselves as "slaves to Christ"??
1 Corinthians 7:22 For he who was called in the Lord as a slave is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a slave of Christ.
Romans 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.
Ephesians 6:6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.
1 Peter 2:16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God's slaves.
Wow.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Chaos1952
()
Date: July 16, 2013 06:35AM
TAITANANDPROUD: Quote:
I don't think that most of us will ever fall for things we have in the past, I believe it is time though to get involved again if any of us are harboring bitterness, bitterness is not hurting anybody but ourselves. You need to realize that if you were deceived, it was your own fault. That is a hard thing to say, but for whatever reason, you ignored the red flags, you knew that the Walk was strange while you were in it. I know I did.
I know your heart's in the right place, Chaos. But a question, if you would indulge me - WHY, if you "ignored the red flags," did you do so? What was motivating you to set aside your misgivings and suspicions for as long as you did?
I wasn't around the "inner circle" to see as much as some that I am speaking to here, I did know about John Robert Stevens divorcing his first wife and marrying a much younger woman, but I accepted the explaination that "she had no revelation of him" and for that I am very sorry. When I met this woman I realized that if John Stevens was stupid enough to marry this THING then he didn't have all the revelation that I thought he had for the seven years that I was in this Walk. I think I also overlooked many of the "rumors" that I had heard about abuse of labor in the "kingdom buisiness" etc, but one time I did jump in the face of a church leader right in the middle of the church service over something like that, and then there were other things I found out after I left. Things happened that I would not have stayed around at all had I known them at the time. But really very little of what I am thinking about right now happened at the direct fault of the leader of the cult, it was wannabees under his authority, underlings that thought they were little gods themselves too. The shepherding thing happened after I left because I left when John Stevens died and his second wife took over. But what you asked got me to thinking because I mainly stayed without investigating much that I heard because I loved the people I met so much. Odd thing though, close, very close relationships melted quickly when I made it known that I was not going to bow down to this woman.
I don't think that most of us will ever fall for things we have in the past, I believe it is time though to get involved again if any of us are harboring bitterness, bitterness is not hurting anybody but ourselves. You need to realize that if you were deceived, it was your own fault. That is a hard thing to say, but for whatever reason, you ignored the red flags, you knew that the Walk was strange while you were in it. I know I did.
I know your heart's in the right place, Chaos. But a question, if you would indulge me - WHY, if you "ignored the red flags," did you do so? What was motivating you to set aside your misgivings and suspicions for as long as you did?
I wasn't around the "inner circle" to see as much as some that I am speaking to here, I did know about John Robert Stevens divorcing his first wife and marrying a much younger woman, but I accepted the explaination that "she had no revelation of him" and for that I am very sorry. When I met this woman I realized that if John Stevens was stupid enough to marry this THING then he didn't have all the revelation that I thought he had for the seven years that I was in this Walk. I think I also overlooked many of the "rumors" that I had heard about abuse of labor in the "kingdom buisiness" etc, but one time I did jump in the face of a church leader right in the middle of the church service over something like that, and then there were other things I found out after I left. Things happened that I would not have stayed around at all had I known them at the time. But really very little of what I am thinking about right now happened at the direct fault of the leader of the cult, it was wannabees under his authority, underlings that thought they were little gods themselves too. The shepherding thing happened after I left because I left when John Stevens died and his second wife took over. But what you asked got me to thinking because I mainly stayed without investigating much that I heard because I loved the people I met so much. Odd thing though, close, very close relationships melted quickly when I made it known that I was not going to bow down to this woman.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
TaitenAndProud
()
Date: July 16, 2013 09:15AM
Thanks for the synopsis, Chaos. Only 7 years, huh? I think you must have had just a little too much backbone for that organization, what? Still, the behaviors that are perhaps still described as "codependent" can manifest after just a week or two of catastrophic stress. Sometimes the cult will push-push-push with nonstop activities, where the members are expected to be doing something culty every day of the week, which exhausts and isolates the members. This, of course, leads to stress, as there is so much pressure to continue and, with one's social circle dwindling until it consists of other group members only, the fear of being regarded as not committed enough/not having correct faith/not being willing to give enough to the group causes people to push themselves to continue with that go-go scheduling way past the point of common sense.
Most all the culties I've known (the ones who weren't born into the religion) joined during a particularly weak point in their lives, when they had experienced some sort of trauma and were vulnerable. Was this your story as well?
If your organization was anything like mine, the leadership always admonished the members to be careful to never stray from the one true path (or whatever wording they used) and to always watch out for those who are straying or who have maybe even stepped off the true path entirely. These may be likened to "wolves in sheep's clothing" or described in negative terms, perhaps going so far as to accuse them of mental illness, deviance, evil intent, and even psychopathology. So while the group's direction was acceptable, one perhaps believed these characterizations, because, after all, what would have to be wrong with someone who would want to leave such a wonderful group? Amirite??
Most all the culties I've known (the ones who weren't born into the religion) joined during a particularly weak point in their lives, when they had experienced some sort of trauma and were vulnerable. Was this your story as well?
Such is the nature of intolerant religion, I'm afraid. You very quickly become aware of just how conditional their love is - so long as you do as they say, play along, and are properly obedient and submissive to authority (it's always about the authority), you'll be accepted socially within the group. But no matter how close you consider those members to be as friends, as soon as you reveal you don't believe precisely as they do, they withdraw. Only those who are judged "acceptable" will be allowed to be socially included. It's all very judgmental, everything positive has strings attached, but it's only when you start pulling away that you're really able to see it for what it is.Quote
Odd thing though, close, very close relationships melted quickly when I made it known that I was not going to bow down to this woman.
If your organization was anything like mine, the leadership always admonished the members to be careful to never stray from the one true path (or whatever wording they used) and to always watch out for those who are straying or who have maybe even stepped off the true path entirely. These may be likened to "wolves in sheep's clothing" or described in negative terms, perhaps going so far as to accuse them of mental illness, deviance, evil intent, and even psychopathology. So while the group's direction was acceptable, one perhaps believed these characterizations, because, after all, what would have to be wrong with someone who would want to leave such a wonderful group? Amirite??
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
larry bobo
()
Date: July 16, 2013 10:41AM
Thank you Sierra for sharing your story. TLWF has obviously had a deep impact on your life and your overcoming is an encouragement to others. I knew your parents but was not close to them. Thanks also for your openness and honesty to share very personal areas of your life without the veil of a ficticous user name - I know many others will know your family and your story will have much more impact. Many who have once belonged to TLWF and suffered in silence have started to to reach out for help - they just don't want to do it in a public forum. I'm sure you will be a help to them - especially those your age. I so agree with you - " There's a LOT of great, amazing people in the Body, so let's pray the blinders are taken off and that they see things for what they are and become set free." I suspect the enemy is more observant of the call of God on many lives than most of us are. There are some real treasures caught in the spider web of TLWF and other groups like them.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
paleface
()
Date: July 16, 2013 11:01AM
I'd like to repeat what was said before. If you leave the Living Word church and have a great life, they will say "see how easy it is to live when you leave the front line of God's army." And if you leave the church and have rough times, they will say "see what happened to him (or her) when they left the covering of divine order." See, they got you either way. It's a classic mind-control trick.
But Sierra said it well. If you leave, there will be NO LIGHTNING striking you down. In fact, a lot of us that have left have talked and traded stories. The vast majority of opinion is this: Life is great out here. It's a big, wide world and the people in it are for the most part, wonderful and loving. We do not regret leaving for one single second !!!!!!
But Sierra said it well. If you leave, there will be NO LIGHTNING striking you down. In fact, a lot of us that have left have talked and traded stories. The vast majority of opinion is this: Life is great out here. It's a big, wide world and the people in it are for the most part, wonderful and loving. We do not regret leaving for one single second !!!!!!
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
larry bobo
()
Date: July 16, 2013 11:57AM
This walk with Jesus truly is a narrow path. There is a constant temptation to get our eyes off Him and onto things that are supposed to represent Him, but really don’t. The greatest instruction is to love Him above everything else and then love others the way He has loved us – everything else hangs on this. We really have no idea if this Christianity thing even works until we first try this. It’s much more than going to church hoping someone else has the key we haven’t been able to find. It’s about falling in love 24/7. Jesus said, “Nobody comes to the Father except through me.” I suspect that includes anyone we may try to put up on a pedestal hoping they have some special hotline to heaven.
As soon as we get our eyes off Him, we get lost in a religious quagmire of people and systems trying to take His place – and somehow it’s supposed to be His fault that we have these wounds. Don’t forget it’s not just the world, but also religion that wants God dead – they both will eventually be out of a job. You know you are on the path when you begin to recognize how much He loves you and has ordered your steps for your good. When we just love Him and want to be with Him, He starts a work in us that we could never do on our own – His righteousness. We, of all people, are most amazed as we start to change from the inside out. If you are going through hell, keep going – it is so worth it! Just keep your eyes on the One who really has the power to heal – the others are just pretending.
As soon as we get our eyes off Him, we get lost in a religious quagmire of people and systems trying to take His place – and somehow it’s supposed to be His fault that we have these wounds. Don’t forget it’s not just the world, but also religion that wants God dead – they both will eventually be out of a job. You know you are on the path when you begin to recognize how much He loves you and has ordered your steps for your good. When we just love Him and want to be with Him, He starts a work in us that we could never do on our own – His righteousness. We, of all people, are most amazed as we start to change from the inside out. If you are going through hell, keep going – it is so worth it! Just keep your eyes on the One who really has the power to heal – the others are just pretending.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Chaos1952
()
Date: July 16, 2013 03:32PM
[www.youtube.com]
This is a video of a cool little girl. If it is not against the rules, she is enthusiastically thanking God for making her feel better.
chaos
This is a video of a cool little girl. If it is not against the rules, she is enthusiastically thanking God for making her feel better.
chaos
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Chaos1952
()
Date: July 16, 2013 03:47PM
I seem to have always gravitated toward the hyper-strange when it came to churches. I was once in a church in the hip district of Atlanta Georgia in the very early 1970s, we were the ones riding around in the vans pointing up to the clouds and saying "smile Jesus loves you." But it was only for a while, and the CHILDREN OF GOD cult showed up at the church and within a week one of the CHILDREN sweet talked the pastor's wife into running off with him along with several of the congregation and six of the vans, none were ever recovered as far as I know. Later I was in a Pentecostal church where the honcho there kept trying to push me over while he prayed for me, the harder he would push to "slay me in the Spirit" the harder I would push and he would finally give up and move on to somebody else. I blew out big from that one when a very well fed evangelists lady came by and told the congregation that if we put enough money in the collection plate she would "send" the Holy Spirit to protect our homes, if not, then we would have our homes invaded. I stood up and let her and the whole congregation what I thought about her, using language that would fit better in the Walk later on. Then came Living Word, and you know part of that story already, but after that was Earl Paulk. You might know a little about his story, just google up the good arch bishop and you will read about him. In fact, the good bishop's church reminded me more of the Walk than any church I have seen since. They were always talking about the Bishop says this or that, and they had 12 pastors under Paulk, one over each area, sort of an in-house apostolic company. The guy that was over my area, when I met him, told me that he was there only to "hold up the hands of the man of God" and basically he was not there for any of the congregation.
Nowadays I visit various churches whenever I get the urge. My new wife likes to go to church, so I go with her. I keep it sort of low key, I sort of like to see what is going on in various places. I have thought of going out to California and visit one of the LWF churches, just not tell anybody I was ever a member. It will be a blast listening to all the hype about how you have to bless with the right hand and receive with the left hand, and what it means if your nose itches as opposed to when your left ear itches, what color your aura needs to be etc., how you have to have a revelation of the Queen of Heaven and her husband, how I have to submit to some twenty year old apostle designated leader......
chaos
Nowadays I visit various churches whenever I get the urge. My new wife likes to go to church, so I go with her. I keep it sort of low key, I sort of like to see what is going on in various places. I have thought of going out to California and visit one of the LWF churches, just not tell anybody I was ever a member. It will be a blast listening to all the hype about how you have to bless with the right hand and receive with the left hand, and what it means if your nose itches as opposed to when your left ear itches, what color your aura needs to be etc., how you have to have a revelation of the Queen of Heaven and her husband, how I have to submit to some twenty year old apostle designated leader......
chaos
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