4generation,

Your post gives evidence of the futility of TLWF. I hope that Gary, Rick, Silas and others are held accountable. They are narcissistic sociopaths. There is no other plausible explanation. They certainly cannot know God or speak for God...unless God is really the devil.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reep wrote:
> And then that evening, in the church bar, Rick
> said that they were considering selling the “sin
> cards” to the highest bidder.
>
> I doubt this 'sin card' ever made it onto a cross,
> but if it did, I wonder how much it would fetch:
>
> "This is probably not a sin, but I was aware that
> my son was sexually abusing young women in the
> fellowship for many years, and did nothing. In
> fact, I made sure the victims were shamed and
> blamed if they came forward. I really enjoyed
> doing that!!"
> -Lamp of Israel

Sounds like "black mail" cards to be filed for future use.

NancyB wrote:

Sounds like "black mail" cards to be filed for future use.

It sure does, NancyB. What a crock. Once you see the crazy, you can never unsee it.

Poem written by Janja Lalich in 1986, one year after leaving the Democratic Workers Party political cult. She went from cult member to cult expert. For more to this story, here is the link. I can relate to her powerful words.
[culteducation.com]

"I guess the worst part about it
is what they did to my brain
They took my brain
and along with it my feelings
my control
my passion
and my love.

They took my brain and made me something
other than I wanted to be
I lost sight of the meaning
I sunk into the madness
I lost my self-control
my self-respect
my self.

I wanted to make a better world
I was willing to fight for that
willing to sacrifice
But they took my soul
turned it inside out
made me something other than I wanted to be

And I guess the worst part about it
is that I did the same thing to others
just like me"

Thanks for sharing the poem by Janja Lalich, Reep. It certainly connects to the experience most of us here had while in TLWF.

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: May 21, 2020 09:51AM

kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “Collateral damage” is not necessarily a
> resume enhancement for one seeking to reboot a new
> world-wide 'misery', aka, Jerusalem Center,
> featuring a G-man on the r u n . . .

Good point, kBOY!

Possible Gary Hargrave resume: I specialize in collateral damage. In fact, I feel that I am best qualified for a worldwide ministry in collateral damage, gaslighting and sheep beating. I am also destructively ambitious and require millions of dollars as well as devoted servants to attend to my every need. Aforementioned servants will receive no compensation other than the privilege of serving me, naturally.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: October 31, 2019 09:03AM

Thousands of 'living words' that bore little if no resemblance to the lives of those who brought them. Ministers preaching sacrifice and dedication to the flock while padding their own bank accounts. Unlike 'Kingdom' workers, I doubt John was living off $80 a month in the mid-to-late 70's...and later G & M were often ostentatious in their financial blessedness (jewelry, clothes, multiple luxury homes etc.). Fortunately, many of us have recovered...or are in the process of recovering, from relentless TLWF gaslighting. But it has taken a very long time to realize it is morally acceptable to question those who claim to be speaking for God, and overcome the fear of the inevitable vicious backlash. Regaining freedom has been an arduous process (at least for me), but well worth it. These online forums have been invaluable.

A couple posts by Paleface from 2011:

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: paleface
Date: February 09, 2011 07:46AM

The feeling of "not measuring up" in the LW is strong, even today with the current word. It took me a bit of time to shake all of that off. With prayer and seeking Him, the Lord convinced me that He loved me even with my flaws and it was OK. All OK.

Do you remember the phrase "You're killing John"? This was said to people who were not toe-ing the line correctly, in the late 70's and early 80's. The responsibility of God not moving John into resurrection life was laid upon the congregation. We were told (mostly by MH) that we weren't praying hard enough or long enough. We needed to fast more. We weren't doing all-night prayer meetings enough. Etc. etc. And when John finally died....guess who's fault it was for him passing away? You guessed it. Many of us carried a sense of guilt for John's death for many years afterwards. It didn't help with MH saying stuff like "I don't need you. I have to move fast to get John back.". We were again blamed, this time for not bringing John back. Guilt - all the way around. Gosh, I don't miss that!

Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by: paleface ()
Date: March 24, 2011 08:28AM

Gary has recently admitted over the pulpit "Some mistakes have been made in the past. We are not perfect.". But that's about the extent of it. You don't get any details about what he is referring to and there is no indication of repentance of corrections to the sources of the mistakes.....unless blame was placed on a person and that person was removed from leadership. And, I guess it is easy to fault JRS and claim "His big error was not opening up to Marilyn all the way". The hint is that John missed the mark here. Was that the "big mistake"? I don't think so.

But what I find disturbing is apparently no discussion about words that were brought that appear to have been flawed. No discussion about "Satan being brought down by John"....or... "The Kingdom is coming in 1979". No revision of unfulfilled prophecy. It's as if these words from JRS and G&M stand true and are 100% perfect. Nothing is revised or edited as it stands up in the face of time and what has transpired. And, like you said, if you question this, you are regarding in the fellowship as someone with a "critical spirit" and thus being a vessel of witchcraft.

Paleface wrote:
And, like you said, if you question this, you are regarding in the fellowship as someone with a "critical spirit" and thus being a vessel of witchcraft.

Yes, in that corrupt organization, you asked questions at your own peril.

Posted by: larry bobo
Date: May 16, 2019 02:55AM

At the time of John’s death, the upward flow had already started. As Gary and Marilyn took control of the organization, the level of control and focus on them increased dramatically. There were a few members of the third generation that had referred to John as “Christ in the Flesh”, but to most, he was the “Door Opener Apostle” and Marilyn was "The Lamp of Israel". I believe in most local churches, Marilyn’s name was substituted for God’s in worship songs – while Gary was married to her. Many remember the service where leaders were asked to pledge their allegiance to and spiritually marry Marilyn - quite weird! You can’t have a higher position than to want to be worshiped as God. For Gary to try and distance himself from the hierarchy is ludicrous. He controls everything and yet seems to not want to take responsibility for anything.

Anyone who has ever served on a church corporation knows you served only as a figurehead. Gary and Marilyn made all the decisions. The last corporation I served on in Palmer Lake had in its Bylaws that if there was disagreement among the Board, the Apostolic Fathering Ministry – Gary and Marilyn – had the final say. You were basically on the corporation to do the legwork, but really had no say in anything of significance. The local church leadership reported to Apco weekly, and they in turn reported to Gary and Marilyn. I was removed several times from positions in the church for questioning things that have now come out in the open and everyone can see they needed to be questioned – e.g. the kingdom dawning in 1979, shepherding and designated relationships, false words from God, failed prophesies, and the cover up of sexual relationships between pastors and congregants – including John.

Great posts from Paleface and Larry Bobo. Thank you for reposting, Changedagain.

I remember quite well the phrase, "You're killing John." And all the other stuff after he died. As Paleface wrote: "It didn't help with MH saying stuff like 'I don't need you. I have to move fast to get John back.'. We were again blamed, this time for not bringing John back. Guilt - all the way around. Gosh, I don't miss that!"

So I literally thought that she was trying to raise John from the dead. Imagine my shock when I read this post by Onion years later.

Posted by Onion
Date: October 15, 2018

The strangeness related to the plans for resurrection started occurring right away - especially when Marilyn and Gary got together. The focus was yes, resurrecting JRS but no one thought he would come back in his old body so there was a lot of prayer that he return. Gary and Marilyn said they were going to have a baby and that baby would be JRS' return. I don't know how open they were with this plan but of course it never happened.
*******************

Cue the lights and sirens. If more people had known what she was really thinking, there would have been a mass exodus. That "revelation" would have blown me right out the door.

Onion wrote:
Gary and Marilyn said they were going to have a baby and that baby would be JRS' return. I don't know how open they were with this plan but of course it never happened.

Wow--you think Rick was spoiled. Imagine the adulation JRS, the apostolic baby, would receive from those believing this nonsense.
Good grief.

old habits are hard to break