A thread from November 8-10, 2019:

Posted by: 40yearsin2016
Date: November 08, 2019 03:04PM

Hey Onion,

Glad you're here, and glad you're giving a little energy to speaking the truth to deception.

It took me decades to speak the word "cult" out loud. I was walked out of LWF in 1984-5 (cannot remember exactly, those years were so traumatic). I didn't speak the word "cult" out loud until 2016, believe it or not that was when I finally felt like I was leaving my cage.

So many have different life experiences having left the cult. One friend told me she spent a decade in therapy and still suffers PTSD at the mention of the name of the church, all these decades later. Another told me recently that there were "no regrets" for time in LWF - even though a sibling is still stuck there and they no longer speak.

Me, I have regrets, but I don't regret speaking out. I don't regret speaking the word "cult" out loud for all to hear.

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: November 09, 2019 07:56AM

Thanks for chiming in, 40 Years. Always enjoy your insight. I have many regrets also. It took me a long time to come to the realization that TLWF is a cult. Like you, I don't regret speaking up and calling it what it is and always has been. I still hope that there will be some type of resolution for those who have been harmed the most. But even if all we do is leave warning signs for those who become free enough to read this forum, that's something.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: November 09, 2019 12:46PM

40 Years wrote:
It took me decades to speak the word "cult" out loud. I was walked out of LWF in 1984-5 (cannot remember exactly, those years were so traumatic).

Those were tumultuous years--even by Walk/TLWF 'standards.'
I do recall a few influential people in my life during that time period who could have accurately gone by the pseudonym 40ozInTheMorning. I think open containers were a sign you were on the path toward Sonship. That, and having fire in your eyes during the prayer sessions. Following John's death, there was an intercession focus on demanding that God bring him back. I was a participant in that nonsense.

Posted by: changedagain
Date: November 09, 2019 03:05PM

Reepicheep Wrote:
But even if all we do is leave warning signs for those who
become free enough to read this forum, that's something.

Even after 12 years of covering seemingly every gamut of this little cult, the discussion here still generates interest, perhaps (in part) because there is new info disclosed by a poster who previously not come forward. As fear recedes, participants are inclined to share suppressed cult memories, and the composite picture of what we've been through becomes more clear.

Posted by: Road to Damascus
Date: November 09, 2019 03:14PM

Interesting how I feel that the buildings at Shiloh are being emptied, auction to be held on the 23rd and the building to be totally shut down forever. An end of an era. Amazing what feelings and reactions this is causing in me. On one hand a rejoicing and on the other a sadness at thoughts of what occurred there.

Posted by: typer
Date: November 09, 2019 05:44PM

Changedagain: Yes.

I'm sorry I didn't break free much earlier. You and the other old time posters have provided courage for us new posters to help us find our voice, plus what Shalom has done for all of us. I am thankful for you. Leadership cloaked in so much darkness, we are now shining together to burn away the darkness.

Posted by: Imapurple
Date: November 09, 2019 07:43PM

It’s interesting looking back at a place like Shiloh where so much time was spent or even the Blix house or Johns house and remember all the things that went on. I completely understand the mixed feelings. So much of our lives were spent in these places. I have a deep sadness over so many things. Mostly from being let down from all the Hope’s and dreams. People who have passed or gone away. It’s like going back to a childhood home after all your friends are gone and remembering the times you had. So much crap happened in those places but it’s mixed with some good things too. I’m glad everything is coming down. It’s a new day and time for healing from all the hurt and pain.

Posted by: Liamthomasusa
Date: November 10, 2019 03:06PM

Imapurple

After reading your last post my emotions welled up within me....remembering that time when serving TLW or prioritizing Shiloh as the number one focus of my life... lots of sweat equity.... always thinking I wasn’t good enough so I needed to work harder... give up more.... in my mind I justified what I gave in exchange for what I missed out in life because God’s word was always worth more than myself.

When I was told I was no longer welcome as a congregant in 1997, I suffered a great loss... yet as I began to find my way in life and began to recognize my own value, it became much easier to forget the hurt I had left behind. Factnet and RickRoss forums helped me realize I had been able to move away before the crazy nonsense intensified.... I am sure had I not been showed the door... I would have walked away on my own.

Please excuse my wandering...remembering the good memories of being a part of Shiloh to realize it is standing empty... a hollow ghost of it’s former glory....

I still am standing strong for those that have told their stories and for those yet to break free to tell theirs.... for it is the stories that shall diminish this cult from gaining any credibility.

Typer wrote:
I'm sorry I didn't break free much earlier. You and the other old time posters have provided courage for us new posters to help us find our voice, plus what Shalom has done for all of us. I am thankful for you. Leadership cloaked in so much darkness, we are now shining together to burn away the darkness.

Glad I was able to be a part of helping others extricate themselves from that mess. Thanks for the kind words, Typer.

--Old Time Poster
(aka changedagain, LampFromIkea)

"Typer wrote:
I'm sorry I didn't break free much earlier. You and the other old time posters have provided courage for us new posters to help us find our voice, plus what Shalom has done for all of us. I am thankful for you. Leadership cloaked in so much darkness, we are now shining together to burn away the darkness."

Hear, hear! Changed, you and others did so much good by having the courage to rip up the code of silence and post in forums like Factnet and this one. I read for several years before getting the nerve to join the conversation. Thank you.

Thanks, Reep.
I also read the Factnet forum for quite some time before I began participating in the wild west of cult discussion. It certainly wasn't easy taking that step--but no regrets. There was so much conditioning to shed, and it helped toward that end.
Freedom is incremental, at least in my experience.

p.s. I was going to write something about The Apostle wearing no clothes,
but I'll give it a rest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2022 10:10PM by changedagain.

My on-again, off-again infatuation with my dog. I noticed that whenever there was a dispute between us, 'Paleface' would immediately weigh in as an advocate for the dog. Example:

Posted by: changedagain
Date: November 12, 2014 04:43AM

I love my dog. He's helped me get through a lot of things...mainly because he doesn't seem to give a sh*t about the pressures of the day. At least that's the vibe he gives off. In fact, I think he very well could be the embodiment of Matthew 6:34:"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

Posted by: changedagain
Date: November 12, 2014 05:01AM

Just noticed that the trash can in the kitchen is knocked over, and it will take me at least ten minutes to clean everything up. I'm really tired and shouldn't have to face this reality late at night...
I've changed my mind about my dog. He's not great after all. Please disregard the previous comment about him being some big solution in my life.

Posted by: paleface
Date: November 12, 2014 07:48AM

Are you sure it was you dog? Maybe you have been sleep-walking again.

Changedagain wrote:
Thanks, Reep.
I also read the Factnet forum for quite some time before I began participating in the wild west of cult discussion. It certainly wasn't easy taking that step--but no regrets. There was so much conditioning to shed, and it helped toward that end.
Freedom is incremental, at least in my experience.

p.s. I was going to write something about The Apostle wearing no clothes,
but I'll give it a rest.

Actually, he answered the door in his underwear, which was bad enough. I ran down the stairs and out the door. I wonder why he thought that would be an ok thing to do?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2022 09:25AM by Reepicheep.

Reep wrote:
Actually, he answered the door in his underwear, which was bad enough.

Bad enough is a good answer. I'm really not even interested to know whether "New Level" or "Free Apostle" was inscribed on his underwear. It's none of my business.

Posts by GSchaeff and Reep regarding JRS:

Posted by: GSchaeff
Date: October 29, 2018 02:32AM

For any new visitors to this forum, one thought I'd like to dispel is that this type of abuse being uncovered is unique to R Holbrook, or that it has not been prevalent in TLW from the very beginning. If anything, R Holbrook had a textbook example of sexual exploitation in his stepfather, JRS. There are numerous alleged accounts on this forum of JRS pervasively abusing the trust and devotion his congregants placed in him by influencing young women to have sexual affairs with him.

John's extremely selfish and abusive behavior likely dates back as far as 1967, when romantic letters exchanged between him and a deacon's wife corroborated claims that they were intimately involved. This is widely believed to have contributed to "the split of 1967" as documented in Woodrow Nichol's book on TLW. It's presumed that those letters have been destroyed, as TLWF has been known to do (Example: [thelivingwordfellowshipthewholetruth.org])

There is also considerable evidence that John began an affair with Marilyn Cleland in the 1960s. This would have been approximately 10 years before he finally divorced Martha Stevens, with whom he had two daughters.

Around 1975, John allegedly fathered a child with another Blix girl. There are numerous instances on this forum of posters individually corroborating this claim.

There are at least three other women JRS is believed to have had affairs with in the 1960s and 70s. There are dozens of accounts of him silencing individuals who would speak up about leaders who preyed on congregants.

These accounts are likely a surprise to many, but in the wake of recently discovering how easily this type of behavior from R Holbrook was covered up by numerous leaders for over two decades, it begs the question as to how accurate these other accounts were. Certainly they deserve a better answer than, "Don't ask those questions," or "You should repent for not having a revelation of John."

We know for certain that John Robert Stevens arranged numerous marriages between his congregants, consolidated millions of dollars worth of church assets solely under his name, dined almost exclusively at fancy restaurants with multiple credit cards from Kingdom Businesses, was involved in a silver mine ponzi scheme, and, above all, JRS preached a toxic message of total submission and unquestioning loyalty to abusive deacons whom he placed over the lives of others. He demanded this of his congregants as they abandoned their jobs, joined communal homes, moved across the country, worked 80-hour weeks performing unskilled manual labor, and donated almost all of their earnings to the church. It's time that we stop deifying JRS and apply a little more scrutiny to what his true motivations often were: vanity and greed at the expense of those who trusted him.

Posted by: Reepicheep
Date: January 31, 2022 01:30AM

Another detail about John and his wife, Martha, was that all during the sixties and seventies JRS had "intercessors" praying for her death. At the same time, he was disgracing himself by seducing various women in the church. Martha finally divorced him. He wouldn't divorce her because oddly enough, THAT would discredit his ministry. You can't even make this stuff up.

Posted by: GSchaeff
Date: October 29, 2018 02:32AM

For any new visitors to this forum, one thought I'd like to dispel is that this type of abuse being uncovered is unique to R Holbrook, or that it has not been prevalent in TLW from the very beginning. If anything, R Holbrook had a textbook example of sexual exploitation in his stepfather, JRS. There are numerous alleged accounts on this forum of JRS pervasively abusing the trust and devotion his congregants placed in him by influencing young women to have sexual affairs with him.

John's extremely selfish and abusive behavior likely dates back as far as 1967, when romantic letters exchanged between him and a deacon's wife corroborated claims that they were intimately involved. This is widely believed to have contributed to "the split of 1967" as documented in Woodrow Nichol's book on TLW. It's presumed that those letters have been destroyed, as TLWF has been known to do (Example: [thelivingwordfellowshipthewholetruth.org])

There is also considerable evidence that John began an affair with Marilyn Cleland in the 1960s. This would have been approximately 10 years before he finally divorced Martha Stevens, with whom he had two daughters.

Around 1975, John allegedly fathered a child with another Blix girl. There are numerous instances on this forum of posters individually corroborating this claim.

There are at least three other women JRS is believed to have had affairs with in the 1960s and 70s. There are dozens of accounts of him silencing individuals who would speak up about leaders who preyed on congregants.

These accounts are likely a surprise to many, but in the wake of recently discovering how easily this type of behavior from R Holbrook was covered up by numerous leaders for over two decades, it begs the question as to how accurate these other accounts were. Certainly they deserve a better answer than, "Don't ask those questions," or "You should repent for not having a revelation of John."

We know for certain that John Robert Stevens arranged numerous marriages between his congregants, consolidated millions of dollars worth of church assets solely under his name, dined almost exclusively at fancy restaurants with multiple credit cards from Kingdom Businesses, was involved in a silver mine ponzi scheme, and, above all, JRS preached a toxic message of total submission and unquestioning loyalty to abusive deacons whom he placed over the lives of others. He demanded this of his congregants as they abandoned their jobs, joined communal homes, moved across the country, worked 80-hour weeks performing unskilled manual labor, and donated almost all of their earnings to the church. It's time that we stop deifying JRS and apply a little more scrutiny to what his true motivations often were: vanity and greed at the expense of those who trusted him.

Thanks for reposting the above, Changed.

So many gruesome details. And it still doesn't even scratch the surface. The deacon's wife from the second paragraph was actually an elder's wife. It was quite a mess. The elder and his wife were later sent to the Bay area of California and oversaw many TLWF churches there. The wife was also called a nephilim by JRS and many others.

To say that Rick Holbrook learned his evil behavior from his stepfather, John Robert Stevens, is undoubtedly true. And his mother, Marilyn Holbrook Stevens Hargrave, also imparted much evil, I'm sure. But that should not excuse RH at all. Some days I wish that I could wake up from the nightmare that is TLWF and never have known any of them. Since that is not possible, I will keep speaking the true facts that I know.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2022 12:43AM by Reepicheep.